Analysis If Dustin Martin wins a 4th Norm Smith medal and premiership will he be regarded as the greatest player of all time?

[JackOutback]

Thanks for trying but you have submitted three players whose 8 years 2013-2020 are demonstrably inferior for impact where it matters most, and barely any better for impact where it matters least.

Ah, so I named three players that were clearly better across that entire period and you’ve reverted to ‘Martin was better in three individual games’ during that timeframe. Which, of course, was not what you asked for. You asked for the entire period.

 

[Sttew]

If you think the arguments are so garbage you will have no difficulty explaining why this is so….

Simple. Because you posted it

 

[bc27]

Sadly for Dustin I think Tim Taranto will spoil this party and have his own Norm come end of the year.
The guys an absolute jet.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

The 3 most overrated players I've seen..

1. Cyril Rioli

2. Dane Swan

3. Dustin Martin


The last two have something in common.

 

[Cdog71]

The 3 most overrated players I've seen..

1. Cyril Rioli

2. Dane Swan

3. Dustin Martin


The last two have something in common.

Did you run that past your mate who’s an afl umpire?
Or your family members who play in the afl?

Or is it that you’ve trained yourself in observing players you think
don’t deserve the appreciation they’ve received?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Did you run that past your mate who’s an afl umpire?
Or your family members who play in the afl?

I've seen..

Pretty self explanatory. What is it with you Richmond supporters.

 

[VicBased]

Nobody held a Winchester to his head and made him go, he decided to. And then he decided to return as soon as it wouldn’t hurt him financially. You can’t be too critical of a player wanting to max his financial returns, but you have to face facts when that is what a player does and you are comparing him to a payer who didn’t.

What I don't like about your postings is that you think it is OK for you to shitcan a player but if if someone s**t cans Dusty you take offense. Hard to see both sides when you have that sort of attitude .
Gazza and Dusty are on a par for mine, they both are fantastic footballers but neither hold all the cards .

 

[Tas]

Martin was offered $1.4m over 7-years to go to Norf. He was close to going but ultimately chose his mates and loyalty over the cash, sacrificing $2m or so to remaIn. Gaz would have earned more than enough at Geelong to set him up for life 5x over….. but he chose the cash.

He then played in front of tiny crowds, didn’t play a final for 7-years, had no mates at the club, was a poor captain etc…..a brilliant player, but he lost his chance to be a 350-game Geelong player with perhaps 4-5 x flags.

And after tax, the extra cash he earned wouldn’t have been that massive anyway compared to what he could have earned as a Geelong hero.

It’s actually a bit of a shame, just as it would have been if Dusty left and probably finished with 1 flag, 1 NS and all the extra he had to show was 5 x Norf B&F’s and some extra AA’s being the superstar in a crud team.


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Trolling
Quite simply: don’t do it. Trolling other teams or posters is not sensible football discussion and having the sentence "This is not a troll but..." doesn't exempt it from being a troll.

Team troll names such as Norf, Carltank, Essendrug, Richmong, Whoreforn, COLA, Failmantle, West Coke...and so on. We all know what they are.These are prohibited terms on the main board, purely because they just turn discussion threads to muck.

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[Aristotle Pickett]

Trolling
Quite simply: don’t do it. Trolling other teams or posters is not sensible football discussion and having the sentence "This is not a troll but..." doesn't exempt it from being a troll.

Team troll names such as Norf, Carltank, Essendrug, Richmong, Whoreforn, COLA, Failmantle, West Coke...and so on. We all know what they are.These are prohibited terms on the main board, purely because they just turn discussion threads to muck.

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That's not a trolling post at all mate.

 

[Noidnadroj]

You conveniently overlook that the AFL orchestrated the GAJ move, every aspect of it. The AFL wanted the leagues No.1 marquee player at GC.

Cats could not match what was offered but could have gone close, but that would most likely have seen players like Bartel headhunted elsewhere

Don’t make stuff up. Yes, the AFL wanted Ablett at GC, but if Ablett and his manager Pickering said no then he goes nowhere. There was no gun to his head. And Ablett had an offer from Geelong and rejected it to take the extra rivers of gold from Gold Coast. Where he had no family and no reason to go … except the juicy juicy cash.

No shame in making cold hard cash your number one priority. He wasn’t the first and he won’t be the last. I think there’s little doubt he regrets that decision big time which is sad.



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[Superstar swan]

Imo the greatest players we have ever seen is buddy and ablett. You can argue in what order but they are the two. They were such outliers in there era.

Ablett was the complete player. Absolutely unstoppable as a mid, and nearly kicked 500 goals.

Much like ablett, the gap between buddy and the next best forward of his era is nearly laughable. 1000 goals in an era where that feat is nearly impossible, and has kicked 300 goals more than the next best over more or less the same period.

 

[Cdog71]

You conveniently overlook that the AFL orchestrated the GAJ move, every aspect of it. The AFL wanted the leagues No.1 marquee player at GC.

Cats could not match what was offered but could have gone close, but that would most likely have seen players like Bartel headhunted elsewhere

Like they orchestrated the Buddy move?

Rubbish

 

[Tas]

That's not a trolling post at all mate.

I am just quoting the sticky thread by the mods, his use of the North pejorative, multiple times, would disagree with your opinion.

 

[Noidnadroj]

GAJ got paid nearly twice as much to go to Gold Coast than what he would have received by staying at Geelong. The Cats were never going to compete with the offer as they have been the best team to manage their salary cap and understand you can't overpay a small group of players at the expense of the playing list.

Collingwood have learnt this the hard way, Carlton will learn this over the next handful of years, and I fear for Melbourne longer term (though with a flag already in their back pocket and likely serious contenders in the short term it is justified).

There’s no shame in making the cash your number one priority. A lot of players would have gone as Ablett did. Not sure where you get ‘double’ from as assuming Geelong were offering $4.5m or so over 5-years (if not more) you’re suggesting the GC offer was close to $1.8m per season. Double the next highest paid player which was probably Judd. I don’t recall the figures but that sounds unlikely to me. Especially given the games marquee player 4-years later signed a 9-year, $10m contract with Sydney.


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[VicBased]

Don’t make stuff up. Yes, the AFL wanted Ablett at GC, but if Ablett and his manager Pickering said no then he goes nowhere. There was no gun to his head. And Ablett had an offer from Geelong and rejected it to take the extra rivers of gold from Gold Coast. Where he had no family and no reason to go … except the juicy juicy cash.

No shame in making cold hard cash your number one priority. He wasn’t the first and he won’t be the last. I think there’s little doubt he regrets that decision big time which is sad.



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It's his job and he was offered a higher paid position. The whole world does it, you, me, anybody would take a higher paying position if it is offered .
They can earn for an average of 12 years and then they have to find other means of financial support.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

What I don't like about your postings is that you think it is OK for you to shitcan a player but if if someone s**t cans Dusty you take offense. Hard to see both sides when you have that sort of attitude .
Gazza and Dusty are on a par for mine, they both are fantastic footballers but neither hold all the cards .

You think it is shitcanning to say and I quote: “you can’t be too critical of a player wanting to max his financial returns?”

We are talking about a comparison between two players. So myself and other posters are trying to find points of difference between the two. The question of Ablett being a better leader than Dusty was raised so surely it wouldn’t be right to allow that claim to go unchallenged.

I think you have got a picture in your head of what is going on in this thread, but it is not the true picture, rather one that has been suggested to you by others trolling my posts.

I think Ablett was a tremendous player. I saw him play many great games. I simply rate Dusty a better player because I have seen him play many great finals games. This is no criticism of Ablett, he appears to have been a more than tidy finals performer, just not at Dusty’s level.

 

[Noidnadroj]

But it is completely irrelevant to the ability of a player and his ranking as a great. Plenty of greats have switched clubs, eg., Ian Stewart , Ron Barrassi, Chris Judd, Paddy Dangerfield. Jeremy Cameron, Brent Croswell, Tony Lockett…. So move on

Not that many greats move purely for the cash and not other reasons relating to family (Judd, Danger), friends, needing a change of environment (Lockett) etc…. Cameron and Danger weren’t even offered more money than at their previous clubs.

Ablett’s sole reason for moving was the rivers of gold. He had no interest in building a club. He had no family or friends there. He had great family history at Geelong and loved it there. But the lure of the cash was too much - can’t blame him, most players would’ve done the same thing.

Martin didn’t.



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[Meteoric Rise]

It's his job and he was offered a higher paid position. The whole world does it, you, me, anybody would take a higher paying position if it is offered .
They can earn for an average of 12 years and then they have to find other means of financial support.

Plenty of AFL footballers don’t do this. Dustin Martin is one of them. So when people make the claim Ablett is a better leader than Martin, do you not think that comparing the conduct of the two in terms of their loyalty to a club is relevant? In Ablett’s case he showed no loyalty to 2 different clubs.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Trolling
Quite simply: don’t do it. Trolling other teams or posters is not sensible football discussion and having the sentence "This is not a troll but..." doesn't exempt it from being a troll.

Team troll names such as Norf, Carltank, Essendrug, Richmong, Whoreforn, COLA, Failmantle, West Coke...and so on. We all know what they are.These are prohibited terms on the main board, purely because they just turn discussion threads to muck.

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Did I hit a nerve? If you think that’s a troll then you clearly haven’t read the preceding 20-million posts on this thread. Maybe get a backbone.


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[VicBased]

You think it is shitcanning to say and I quote: “you can’t be too critical of a player wanting to max his financial returns?”

We are talking about a comparison between two players. So myself and other posters are trying to find points of difference between the two. The question of Ablett being a better leader than Dusty was raised so surely it wouldn’t be right to allow that claim to go unchallenged.

I think you have got a picture in your head of what is going on in this thread, but it is not the true picture, rather one that has been suggested to you by others trolling my posts.

I think Ablett was a tremendous player. I saw him play many great games. I simply rate Dusty a better player because I have seen him play many great finals games. This is no criticism of Ablett, he appears to have been a more than tidy finals performer, just not at Dusty’s level.

With respect this post highlights you.
You presume you know what is in my thoughts and construct your argument around it.
You Don't seem to have the ability to take on what people are saying and always put your own slant on it.
Makes it very difficult to have an unbiased conversation with you as you are way to defensive .

 

[Meteoric Rise]

With respect this post highlights you.
You presume you know what is in my thoughts and construct your argument around it.
You Don't seem to have the ability to take on what people are saying and always put your own slant on it.
Makes it very difficult to have an unbiased conversation with you as you are way to defensive .

If you are going to make criticisms of my posts maybe put some thought into them and make the criticism reflect what it is in my post that you are criticising. Otherwise I will do exactly as you say and presume what you are thinking. What else am I to do?

 

[Fadge]

Not sure where you get ‘double’ from as assuming Geelong were offering $4.5m or so over 5-years (if not more)

Where did you get those figures from?

 

[Fadge]

I think Ablett was a tremendous player. I saw him play many great games. I simply rate Dusty a better player because I have seen him play many great finals games. This is no criticism of Ablett, he appears to have been a more than tidy finals performer, just not at Dusty’s level.

Except you've previously acknowledged you haven't seen many if any of Ablett's finals.

Have you progressed any further than quarter time of the 2008 Grand Final?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Except you've previously acknowledged you haven't seen many if any of Ablett's finals.

Have you progressed any further than quarter time of the 2008 Grand Final?

I have seen some of Ablett’s finals at the time they were played, but I don’t have great recall on them. Which is why I have undertaken to watch a good selection of them and give my view, when I have time. Not got further than 1/4 time in the 08 GF yet, but I will.

Ablett did kick an unbelievable goal in the first 1/4 of the 2008 GF. Trouble is it was made unbelievable by the double 50m infringements he required to allow him to kick it rather than any dazzling display of skills on his part.

 

[My Tilly]

I have seen some of Ablett’s finals at the time they were played, but I don’t have great recall on them. Which is why I have undertaken to watch a good selection of them and give my view, when I have time. Not got further than 1/4 time in the 08 GF yet, but I will.

Ablett did kick an unbelievable goal in the first 1/4 of the 2008 GF. Trouble is it was made unbelievable by the double 50m infringements he required to allow him to kick it rather than any dazzling display of skills on his part.

Be sure to watch the 07 Prelim where he sent us into the grand final and won us the flag.

In many respects, similarly to his father, we never quite got to see the very best of Jnr in finals when he was at the peak of his powers. The period between 2011-2014 was probably the finest display of midfield dominance the game had ever seen. That version of Ablett in the finals would have been truly something.