Analysis If I/you was a club boss (like Fagan) how would I ensure quality umpiring

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Carmo

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 15, 2011
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AFL Club
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Hello, the thread title doesn't quite say what I wanted it to but the other phrase was too long.

It should be something more like: how does/would a club boss go about ensuring their club wasn't disadvantaged by the umpiring and adjudication setup in the AFL?

I've been thinking for myself how I'd do it if I was in that position. I definitely wouldn't leave it go. I think you'd be doing a disservice by assuming the AFL would have it in hand, I mean, we talk everywhere else that our club administration should do what it takes to ensure its looking after its own interests. A lot wanted us not to bend over for the Tippett sanctions and stand our ground on other issues, so I don't see why umpiring would be any different.

Now, before I'm going any further, I'm not necessarily claiming the umpiring is against us, I'm more saying, that, if it was possible that any club could be disadvantaged, then what would that club do to protect against this.

So far my plan looks like this. Its a two prong approach. One, I would get someone from the umpiring fraternity, the SANFL is the obvious choice that is really into their craft and ideally not really a fan or hater of the club. The job of this person would be to review each weeks game and compile a report, looking at things like missed frees we should have received, missed frees the opposition should have relieved, frees that were legit for us (we received them and we deserved them) and legit for the opposition and frees given that we didn't deserve and frees given to the opposition that they didn't deserve. Our reviewer would also look at overall game things and technical things, like was the game umpired consistently compared to previous weeks, was one quarter consistent compared to the others, was a particular umpire poor, etc etc. Each week this reviewer would send off a report to the AFL but not to us (and the AFL is to be made aware of this). We are only to recieve a review of all the games after the close of the season. This way the AFL is made aware if the club thinks the umpiring was poor, without the club actually being involved, therefore a neutral is making the call, not a vested interest, so its likely to be more accurate. At the end of the season I'd have a look at the umpires reviews and compare them to the coaches and my own and see if they aligned. We thought we got ripped off in round 5, did our reviewer, yes he did, ahh, interesting, and then i'd have a review on it with the AFL and see what they did to arrest the issue and if it cropped back up again.

The second thing I'd do is hire a stats expert to look at the statistical side of things. I guess the first time you engaged them they'd have to do a bit of analysis on the story up til now. One thing they might do for example is look at the distribution of free kick counts in all the games in a season and using all teams bar us as a basis, how we stack up. They'd be able to compute things like what frequency would a lop sided game like the WB one from a couple of years back be. If that was a one in 45 year event, and then the next year we got another, not quite so bad one, say a 1 in 30 year event, then you'd start to question whether we're getting ripped off a bit. The same person could also look up umpiring histories, venue histories and even look at the stats for other clubs and see if for instance the WA clubs are helped by having they umpires train with them. I'd get a report off this person for the start of the season and forward whatever it found off to the AFL. Again, I'd get them to compile stuff through the season and maybe once a quarter send it off to the AFL but not to us and then again at the end of the year, get the reports, review ourselves and then meet with the AFL about it.
 
There is nothing that can be done to stop the VFL bias.
I dunno about that, have a panel of umpires that exist and are based in different states, with no field umpires being allowed to be from a state of the playing sides. You can put an asterix on victoria saying that 2 vic sides can have vic umpires.
 

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The thing I found amazing was that when that umpire had the 15-1 free kick count against us or whatever it was, the umpire boss on radio said they don't look into biases towards certain teams from individual umpires.

His attitude seemed to be that the umpires are impartial so why should they need to check?

I would genuinely like to know what scope the AFL integrity unit has and whether their mandate covers AFL decisions.
 
I dunno about that, have a panel of umpires that exist and are based in different states, with no field umpires being allowed to be from a state of the playing sides. You can put an asterix on victoria saying that 2 vic sides can have vic umpires.
Of course there are ways to do it, but the vics wont have a bar of it.
 
The thing I found amazing was that when that umpire had the 15-1 free kick count against us or whatever it was, the umpire boss on radio said they don't look into biases towards certain teams from individual umpires.

His attitude seemed to be that the umpires are impartial so why should they need to check?

I would genuinely like to know what scope the AFL integrity unit has and whether their mandate covers AFL decisions.

"Disgusting" to question the AFL like that - Luke Beveridge, word's biggest flog
 
I prefer the attitude of playing well enough that the umpires can't impede on a game.

No one cries about the umpiring when we win by 10 goals.

Umpiring is a situation the club can not control. Instead of putting effort into that I would prefer they perfect things we can control.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
Collingwood have supporters in WA & QLD
Yeah no s**t so do we. But the chances of an umpire from WA or Qld being swayed by a state/local bias are vastly diminished compared to 3 Victorians
 

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Less grey area rules, which are open to interpretation. Keep it as black and white as possible. 50 m and 20m penalties for different categories of indiscretion.
Number one thing have supercomputers doing all umpiring decisions reducing the maggots to mere mouthpieces which pass on decisions.
 
Tell the AFL to stop changing the bloody rules so everyone knows what they are. Then they can focus on consistency between umpires.

Alao reduce the # of umps so they do 2 games per weekend as a team to reduce the spread again
 
This is a Victorian competition with Vic club friendly final series, biased Vic umpiring and Vic club advantaged rules. You either accept your non Vic club is playing in a competition where it is effectively a 2nd class citizen or you move on and find another sport.

And as for the old “umpires don’t impact the result” seriously - people still believe this BS.


Until we see the GF played at a neutral ground this competition will forever be compromised.
 
Tell the AFL to stop changing the bloody rules so everyone knows what they are. Then they can focus on consistency between umpires.

Alao reduce the # of umps so they do 2 games per weekend as a team to reduce the spread again
******* this.

before we go too deep down the conspiracy hole (which I'm quite happy to tbh, certain umpire's performances go beyond lack of competence IMO) how about we address this little nugget that allows them to get away with making s**t decisions in the first place?

in fact it should probably be a part of the conspiracy - AFL makes constant unnecessary rule changes and introduces "new interpretations" throughout the year to create a confused environment that allows umps to pay dubious frees that square up games with impunity.
 
There are 2 separate issues regarding umpiring decisions which are seemingly misinterpreted as a single issue:
1. AFL rule changes on a yearly basis (that's what it seems in the past few years) is not a good way to apply to any field of sport. It adds to player confusion and more fans angst. More likely than not, it will add to more umpiring bias (intentional or unintentional).
2. Umpiring bias. Most fans would be sensible enough to understand that the rules are open to an interpretation, and therefore 50/50 calls rarely end up being actual 50/50. It tends to favor one side more than the other. However, it's the magnitude of the umpiring bias AND the non-correlation to the actual game that's what we're more referring to here.

What this thread is about is to target less of the umpiring bias. So from the above, here are some suggestions:
1. Make a case for the AFL to stop making rule changes for awhile until we can see the standard of umpiring improve across the board. Either that, or make rule changes where it's absolute black and white (and hopefully fair).
2. Train the umpires harder with better simulation of games and umpiring decisions.
3. Increase more recruitment of umpires from grassroots into the AFL - better money incentive?
4. Involve umpires from other states not relating to the states to which the 2 AFL teams are playing during the match.
5. More clamping down of "disgraceful umpiring performances" - by this I mean games where 99% of AFL fans (of ALL teams) agree that the umpiring was bad and very biased. There likely needs to be a 3rd party involved other than the AFL or umpiring fraternity, for a more thorough and fair investigation.
6. More serious penalties for the really bad umpiring performances. Being dropped for a few games might be enough. Or make them ineligible to umpire during the Finals for that year if they perform seriously bad in a game, might be a better incentive?
 
Yeah no s**t so do we. But the chances of an umpire from WA or Qld being swayed by a state/local bias are vastly diminished compared to 3 Victorians
Pannell is from NSW.

Besides rampant club bias (Pannell, John Harvey) isn't the phenomenon supposedly about being influenced by a majority crowd? Rather than where you're from.
 
The number one factor in umpiring standards is the attitude of the football community towards umpiring. Until the football community changes it's attitude people will not want to umpire so the talent pool to draw from will be small. Apart from that umpiring is not biased against [insert your club here]. I'm all for independent analysis of umpiring decisions, as a way of improving umpiring, creating a conversation so fans know why decisions are paid, and an opportunity for fans to learn something about umpiring themselves, of which they know very little.
 
The number one factor in umpiring standards is the attitude of the football community towards umpiring. Until the football community changes it's attitude people will not want to umpire so the talent pool to draw from will be small. Apart from that umpiring is not biased against [insert your club here]. I'm all for independent analysis of umpiring decisions, as a way of improving umpiring, creating a conversation so fans know why decisions are paid, and an opportunity for fans to learn something about umpiring themselves, of which they know very little.

Here here

Awesome post
 

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