Roast IF it isn't biased or ncompetent..... THEN it must be inciteful media coverage part II

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Ishmael_

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On the Hard Ball Gets podcast, one of the journo's mentioned that Nic Nat was absolutely dominating at the lastest intra-club match.

And that Shuey had a mild complaint, but really the Eagles wanted to hold TK/Nic/Shuey back so that they'd further develop chemistry in the middle.

Just one, one largely injury-free season from Naitanui is all I want. If we get it, that fifth flag looks all the more likely. And if we get that flag, with Nic Nat - I'll be good for another decade.
 
Aug 14, 2004
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I remember when we won the flag there was an article about Champion Data's 'Eagle problem' because they couldn't figure out how we were successful based on their data models.

Don't know if they have sorted it out since.

It's mostly due to them using stats over the past 40 matches, which means players that improve during the year will still have junk ratings until effectively another year further down the line - by which time their surge in form may have ended.

Also it rewards players for simply attending stoppages, thus overrating ruckmen and onball midfielders.


Post on this topic from previous.

Information on how CD do their Player Ratings is here.

Players accrue or lose points every time they are involved in a passage of play. The score awarded to them each time they are in the play is determined by a complex algorithm formulated and refined over a number of years by Champion Data. Players accrue or lose points depending on whether they have a positive or negative impact on a passage of play.
A player's rating is determined by aggregating his points tally based on a rolling window of the previous two seasons. For example, after round six of the 2014 season, a player's rating will be based on matches from round seven of the 2012 season onwards. However, only a player's most recent 40 matches are used in the calculation of his rating. This creates a buffer for players missing matches through injury, suspension, omission or by not being involved in finals. A player's most recent 30 matches are given greater weight in determining his rating. Matches 31 through 40 are progressively reduced in weighting, from 100 per cent down to five per cent for the earliest game in the window.


Whereas in this system each player is ranked in their output against seven different algorithms that correlate to the positional types used here: Defender (Playing Tall), Defender (Playing Small), Midfielder (Outside), Midfielder (Onball), Forward (Playing Tall), Forward (Playing Small), Ruckman.

These involve the ranking of the player in respect to the rest of the competition for the following statistics over the past 23 weeks of matches, with the most recent 7 weeks given an additional 20% weighting:
  • Defender (Playing Tall): marks, contested marks, intercepts, one-percenters, rebound 50s
  • Defender (Playing Small): marks, intercepts, rebound 50s, kicks, metres gained, disposal efficiency
  • Midfielder (Outside): kicks, disposals, metres gained, inside 50s, disposal efficiency, score involvements, uncontested possessions, effective disposals
  • Midfielder (Onball): contested possessions, clearances, inside 50s, score involvements, tackles, metres gained
  • Forward (Playing Tall): goals, marks, contested marks, marks in 50, goal assists, score involvements, tackles in 50
  • Forward (Playing Small): goals, goal assists, tackles, tackles in 50, marks in 50
  • Ruckmen: hit outs, contested marks, contested possessions, clearances, goal assists, score involvements


Part of creating this system was due to my own frustration with the outcomes from CDs Ratings:
  • The aggregate window of 40 matches is too large; it for example results in D.Martin still being in the overall top 5 for their ratings despite playing within himself for the past 18 months now.
  • It rewards players for simply attending stoppages, thus overrating ruckmen and onball midfielders - 7 of the overall top 10 are either ruckmen or exclusively inside midfielders.
  • As a result other positions are underrated;
    • The highest ranked defender is #28 (McGovern)
    • The highest ranked forward is #16 (Franklin)
    • Outside midfielders are particularly hammered under this; Whitfield #65, S.Ross #73, Gaff #125...
 

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Aug 14, 2004
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Former Docker Michael Barlow believes West Coast’s weakness in 2020 lies on their wings


I realise we have lost Masto, who was a great user of the footy when given acres of time and space, but I wouldn't say that our wings are a weakness. Jetta often pushes up on the wing to deliver some scything passes. And to say Gaff is not a great ball user? Come on... I realise he has no right boot but on his left he is up there with our best.

Barlow appears to forget that Gaff wasn't playing in the 2018 Finals. Club player of the Finals Series that year? Redden - who happened to be playing on the wing.

With Masten no longer around and the defensive role specialised by him now redundant, it can be expected to see the club return to a more orthodox wing setup utilising Gaff and Redden that is more attacking than has been seen in previous seasons.

Furthermore, such a setup would also enhance any overlap coming off half back that can be provided through Jetta, Hurn, Sheppard, Watson, Duggan etc.

Far from a weakness, the wings are actually a position of strength for the club.
 
Sep 25, 2007
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On the Hard Ball Gets podcast, one of the journo's mentioned that Nic Nat was absolutely dominating at the lastest intra-club match.

And that Shuey had a mild complaint, but really the Eagles wanted to hold TK/Nic/Shuey back so that they'd further develop chemistry in the middle.

Just one, one largely injury-free season from Naitanui is all I want. If we get it, that fifth flag looks all the more likely. And if we get that flag, with Nic Nat - I'll be good for another decade.


Agreed. If Nic gets a flag I think it'll hold me over for years.
 
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I wouldn't use the term weakness, but going by the latter stages of last season, I'd say our defence has the most question marks heading into 2020.
and that's a fair point considering the injuries, however I think you're being a bit delicate. Theres two wing spots. Both have been tied up for 10 years and now we've got a hole on one side.
 
Agreed. If Nic gets a flag I think it'll hold me over for years.

Nic, Shep and Gaff to all get flags for mine

The latter one in particular would piss a few people off for an added bonus
 

Coasters7

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On the Hard Ball Gets podcast, one of the journo's mentioned that Nic Nat was absolutely dominating at the lastest intra-club match.

And that Shuey had a mild complaint, but really the Eagles wanted to hold TK/Nic/Shuey back so that they'd further develop chemistry in the middle.

Just one, one largely injury-free season from Naitanui is all I want. If we get it, that fifth flag looks all the more likely. And if we get that flag, with Nic Nat - I'll be good for another decade.
If Nic stays injury free for the rest of his career we’ll be celebrating our 10th halfway through the decade.
 

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Balls In

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I heard this bit on 6PR where Lee Spur's "wild prediction" of 2020 was Kelly struggling this year. Sumich agreed due to the extra pressure on him and the fact he's "no champion". The panel (that also included Michael Barlow) all agreed they wouldn't be surprised at all if he bombed..
 
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I heard this bit on 6PR where Lee Spur's "wild prediction" of 2020 was Kelly struggling this year. Sumich agreed due to the extra pressure on him and the fact he's "no champion". The panel (that also included Michael Barlow) all agreed they wouldn't be surprised at all if he bombed..

Everyone is free to their opinion.

We will see.
 

woosha24

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I heard this bit on 6PR where Lee Spur's "wild prediction" of 2020 was Kelly struggling this year. Sumich agreed due to the extra pressure on him and the fact he's "no champion". The panel (that also included Michael Barlow) all agreed they wouldn't be surprised at all if he bombed..
I dont think he'll "bomb", but he will take a bit to get going with a new structure and gameplan. My money is on him hitting his straps right after the bye.
 
Aug 14, 2004
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I heard this bit on 6PR where Lee Spur's "wild prediction" of 2020 was Kelly struggling this year. Sumich agreed due to the extra pressure on him and the fact he's "no champion". The panel (that also included Michael Barlow) all agreed they wouldn't be surprised at all if he bombed..

It's more likely that Fyfe may struggle due to the extra pressure on him from Fremantle's midfield exodus.


Kelly on the other hand has never had more support on (and off) field than he has right now.

He'll be given the freedom to play his own game, get ball, kick goals and win games (and votes).

I'd place him as my equal favourite for the Brownlow with D.Martin.


The Freo faithful with little to cheer about are getting salty over West Coast players again before the season has even begun.
 

Wild Kelly

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It's more likely that Fyfe may struggle due to the extra pressure on him from Fremantle's midfield exodus.


Kelly on the other hand has never had more support on (and off) field than he has right now.

He'll be given the freedom to play his own game, get ball, kick goals and win games (and votes).

I'd place him as my equal favourite for the Brownlow with D.Martin.


The Freo faithful with little to cheer about are getting salty over West Coast players again before the season has even begun.
.......they are the "spurned lover". TK rejected their "better" offer.
 
If Tim Kelly struggles more due to a hard tag - and that is a fair comment as he never copped one in a midfield with Ablett, Dangerfield and Selwood - then that's good news for us as it means Shuey, Yeo and Gaff either cop their second best tagger or don't get tagged at all.

Sumich and Spurr can make those comments and they may well be right but I'd rather be in our position where we load up for a premiership window with elite players than Freo's where all they have to tout are Aish and Acres to replace two midfielders that finished top 5 in their B+F.
 
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If Tim Kelly struggles more due to a hard tag - and that is a fair comment as he never copped one in a midfield with Ablett, Dangerfield and Selwood - then that's good news for us as it means Shuey, Yeo and Gaff either cop their second best tagger or don't get tagged at all.

Sumich and Spurr can make those comments and they may well be right but I'd rather be in our position where we load up for a premiership window with elite players than Freo's where all they have to tout are Aish and Acres to replace two midfielders that finished top 5 in their B+F.

Hi just passing, after chiming in on the women’s game day thread.

I think highly of Kelly, and you have picked up comments made bu Spurr, Barlow & Sumich. They are not players anymore, they are paid for their comments. Love or hate what they say, but they were making comments about Kelly’s impact on the Eagles. It is an interesting question and personally think that it may be half a season before the benefits are seen.

But what the flip has this to with Freo ?. Why bring them into the discussion about comments made by ex footy players, where the discussion was only about Kelly.

Play the ball.
 
Hi just passing, after chiming in on the women’s game day thread.

I think highly of Kelly, and you have picked up comments made bu Spurr, Barlow & Sumich. They are not players anymore, they are paid for their comments. Love or hate what they say, but they were making comments about Kelly’s impact on the Eagles. It is an interesting question and personally think that it may be half a season before the benefits are seen.

But what the flip has this to with Freo ?. Why bring them into the discussion about comments made by ex footy players, where the discussion was only about Kelly.

Play the ball.

Sumich is an ex-Freo assistant and Barlow and Spurr are Freo players. Thought that would have been obvious. Do you think the media would have cared what Brenton Sanderson or Nick Dal Santo thought about Tim Kelly? The comparison will always be there, I can guarantee you would be laughing if our positions were reversed for our respective clubs.

Deal with it.
 

Numero Uno

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Hi just passing, after chiming in on the women’s game day thread.

I think highly of Kelly, and you have picked up comments made bu Spurr, Barlow & Sumich. They are not players anymore, they are paid for their comments. Love or hate what they say, but they were making comments about Kelly’s impact on the Eagles. It is an interesting question and personally think that it may be half a season before the benefits are seen.

But what the flip has this to with Freo ?. Why bring them into the discussion about comments made by ex footy players, where the discussion was only about Kelly.

Play the ball.


the irony from a supporter base that endlessly whinges about the 'eagles' media

play the ball
 
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