If Rioli and Tom Mitchell stay healthy in 2018......

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Apr 24, 2013
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Please, enlighten me on the top quality young players North Melbourne have coming through?

Why, so I can see if some kid agrees with me? You're white noise when it comes to footy.
 
May 5, 2006
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Yea but you have to ask where the improvement is going to come from as well. Will they go backwards? Maybe not, but they were also one loss in round 23 away from the wooden spoon so that isn't saying much.

There's not a lot of difference between 9 wins and 6. 3 wins in fact. Percentages very close, too.

All the same arguments being made for/against Hawthorn could be made for/against North or plenty of other teams.

13 players made their North debuts in 2017, and most are just as credentialed as their Hawthorn counterparts.

I don't particularly rate North but they have a young side and have already moved on from relying on older players.
 
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There's not a lot of difference between 9 wins and 6. 3 wins in fact. Percentages very close, too.

All the same arguments being made for/against Hawthorn could be made for/against North or plenty of other teams.

13 players made their North debuts in 2017, and most are just as credentialed as their Hawthorn counterparts.

I don't particularly rate North but they have a young side and have already moved on from relying on older players.


5 losses by under a goal...big injury list......blah, blah, blah
 
Aug 9, 2017
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There's not a lot of difference between 9 wins and 6. 3 wins in fact. Percentages very close, too.

All the same arguments being made for/against Hawthorn could be made for/against North or plenty of other teams.

13 players made their North debuts in 2017, and most are just as credentialed as their Hawthorn counterparts.

I don't particularly rate North but they have a young side and have already moved on from relying on older players.
We had 10 wins not 6 we also had a draw as well so it is 4 and a half games. I would say that is a rather large difference between the two if we are being honest here.
 
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We had 10 wins not 6 we also had a draw as well so it is 4 and a half games. I would say that is a rather large difference between the two if we are being honest here.

10 wins then. There still isn't a massive gulf between the two teams. 90% vs 87% is telling.

It's all well and good to win games in the second half of the year, but a lot of the time they aren't meaningful. If you beat 3 teams out of contention for the finals (and lose to another) in the last 6 games is it a sign you are a finals contender if not for a slow start?
 
Aug 9, 2017
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10 wins then. There still isn't a massive gulf between the two teams. 90% vs 87% is telling.

It's all well and good to win games in the second half of the year, but a lot of the time they aren't meaningful. If you beat 3 teams out of contention for the finals (and lose to another) in the last 6 games is it a sign you are a finals contender if not for a slow start?
I mean how is 4 and a half games not a big step over a team with 6 wins? I think you are massively downplaying the gap between the two. Games in the second half of the year aren't meaningful? You are entitled to that opinion but i heavily disagree. You seem to be arguing some really random things for why we will drop. 'The bookies don't rate us' and 'a lot of wins in the second half of the year are meaningless'
 
May 5, 2006
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It's really not that hard to follow.

1. The bookies have you framed to finish 12th/13th. Means nothing other than they are the people who make money from people betting on prospective outcomes and frame markets accordingly. You might think you're better than that, they don't. They don't have your market framed out of spite. They watch games, look at player movements etc. then set prices based on what they think is likely. If you're confident then go make money off them.

2. It's not that hard to look beyond pure wins and losses when comparing two sides. Hawthorn won more games in 2016 than 2015 but were 40% down and didn't dominate the other top 4 sides the same way. Were they a better team in 2016 because they won more games? The fact the Bulldogs who only won 15 and finished outside the top 4 knocked them off wasn't that surprising. North won 6, Hawthorn won 10 in 2017. Both had ordinary seasons. North weren't easybeats and lost a bunch of close games so could've easily been an 8 or 9 win side. Winning games late in the year can give teams a false sense of accomplishment. Freo, North and the Bulldogs were out of finals contention when Hawthorn beat them. The Freo side you beat went on to lose by 100 back to back after beating Gold Coast. Every year in the back half of the season there's a mix of teams outside the 8 playing for pride and others that have given up and are playing kids. Melbourne had a sniff of finals in 2016, cocked up and lost to Carlton then dropped their bundle and lost by 100 giving Geelong a training drill going into the finals. It happens. St Kilda followed up 8 of their 12 wins in 2016 coming in the last 11 rounds with an 11 win season.
 
Apr 24, 2013
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It's really not that hard to follow.

1. The bookies have you framed to finish 12th/13th.

Champion Data agrees.

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Apr 24, 2013
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I think Hawthorn would have more chance than that, same with West Coast and Essendon.


Yeah, well you would know more than Champion Data.

I mean you know Franklin's better than Carey and you never saw Carey play.
 

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There's not a lot of difference between 9 wins and 6. 3 wins in fact. Percentages very close, too.

All the same arguments being made for/against Hawthorn could be made for/against North or plenty of other teams.

13 players made their North debuts in 2017, and most are just as credentialed as their Hawthorn counterparts.

I don't particularly rate North but they have a young side and have already moved on from relying on older players.

Good thing Hawthorn had 10 and a half wins then. And if 4 and a half wins isn’t a big difference then Hawthorn weren’t far off 15 wins and equal third on the ladder.

Wonder where the bookies rated Richmond this time last year. And the dogs the year before. They get it wrong.

And just because you don’t rely on older players, doesnt mean your younger players are any good. Likewise, having champion older players doesn’t exclude you from having quality younger ones.

Your arguments are full of holes. Kinda like West Coast’s game plan in 2015.
 
May 5, 2006
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2017 Champion Data prediction:

1. GWS Giants - 17.1 wins - 99.2% chance of finals
2. Sydney Swans - 14.5 - 89.5%
3. Western Bulldogs - 14.4 - 89.3%
4. Adelaide Crows - 14.2 - 86%
5. Port Adelaide - 13.8 - 82.7%
6. West Coast Eagles - 13.3 - 75.6%
7. Collingwood - 12.4 - 61.5%
8. Geelong Cats - 12.4 - 61.1%

10. Richmond - 10.4 - 25.4%
15. Essendon - 8.2 - 5.2%

Well they got 6 of the top 8 right, had one in 10th and Essendon coming off a in 15th.

But we'll disregard that because they didn't get it 100% right and obviously don't know about that 18 game run with 10 wins and a draw.
 
Most of the posts ITT are quoting opposition posters to play the man. It's all hater this, obsession that and very little actual discussion about footy. Sad really. Apparently the only thing that matters is which club you go for.
No it isn't.

You so desperately wanted Hawthorn to freefall into oblivion, and this became blatantly obvious when you argued black and blue through the first half of 2017 that Hawthorn had nothing going for them and would not turn around their season.

Remember, we had no kids coming through? No one would improve. Clarkson wouldn't be able to turn it around.

Then, when presented with arguments against your inane ramblings and the improving form you either disappeared, or played the "because Hawthorn" sook card, without actually being able to form a valid argument which wasn't countered with ease.

That you're back in here, in another Hawthorn thread, trying it on with the same routine, ignoring the posts that counter yours, while trying to claim that you're just being honest or balanced has quite a few of us laughing at just how cooked you are.
 
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