If the Dees don't make the eight is it a failure?

Will it be a failure?

  • Yes

    Votes: 398 75.2%
  • No

    Votes: 131 24.8%

  • Total voters
    529
They don't help but we should have won the last three games, injuries are a bit of a cop out. If that list Gawn, Lewis and Weideman (debatable) are clearly best 22, the rest are depth of varying quality. We haven't been able to close out games and still have the same bad fade outs. That's on the coach and leadership group. I can't see that we're stronger in those areas than previous years when Lewis is removed from the equation and I am not impressed with Goodwin so far.
I don't think the injuries are when you consider the context. We've so far played two games having Watts go in as the #1 ruck from quarter time effectively and either Tim Smith or Frost become the chopout because there was noone else. Losing rucks in that context is just about the most crippling thing that can happen to a side on the day because you're stuck throwing the magnets around to try and cover for them and messing with your structures, forward or back, just to contest.

What's more, tonight was as much about the reduced rotations. We were down to 2 on the bench for the whole second half. That's crippling over the journey.
 
Sep 2, 2008
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They don't help but we should have won the last three games, injuries are a bit of a cop out. If that list Gawn, Lewis and Weideman (debatable) are clearly best 22, the rest are depth of varying quality. We haven't been able to close out games and still have the same bad fade outs. That's on the coach and leadership group. I can't see that we're stronger in those areas than previous years when Lewis is removed from the equation and I am not impressed with Goodwin so far.

Really? Everyone at Essendon liked him and were sad to see him go.
 

donkeypunchd

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I don't think the injuries are when you consider the context. We've so far played two games having Watts go in as the #1 ruck from quarter time effectively and either Tim Smith or Frost become the chopout because there was noone else. Losing rucks in that context is just about the most crippling thing that can happen to a side on the day because you're stuck throwing the magnets around to try and cover for them and messing with your structures, forward or back, just to contest.
Injuries don't explain the bad goal-kicking vs Geelong or the third quarter last week
 

donkeypunchd

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Really? Everyone at Essendon liked him and were sad to see him go.
No- this list still has the same traits it did post-Neeld, fading out of quarters, inability to win close games, complacency in games we are favourites to win. and as a coach Goodwin hasn't shown that he can change it up when teams get a run on against us. He's been with the club since 2015, developing his game plan and list while Roos wore the flack as figurehead. Now the training wheels are off and we still have many of the same old problems I listed above. Time for excuses is over really, we've not played finals for over a decade now
 
Sep 2, 2008
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I've been alive for 34 seasons.

We've won more games than we've lost only 12 of those seasons.

We're 299 wins 457 losses during my lifetime.

I'm running out of patience big time

I'm kinda the same. Essendon hasn't won a flag or final in over 10 years I feel this is the best shot we will have in a long time next few years.
 
If we lose to Essendon we'll be under a lot of pressure and deservedly so.
Depends on how we lose. If we lose Spencer for six and then drop another two with injuries and get pantsed in the ruck I think people are going to just say it's over based on the injury list.
 
I agree, but I'm going to go out on a limb and predict we won't lose anyone to injury this week.
I doubt Petracca pulls up. Salem, Jones and Hunt all had knocks as well. I think it might be nasty.
 

Topkent

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The raft of injuries and the triple suspension haven't helped matters.

Colin Garland* Knee Season
Max Gawn Hamstring 12 weeks
Liam Hulett Hip flexor Available [VFL player]
Mitch King Knee Available [Just recovered from knee reco]
Jordan Lewis Suspended Round six
Pat McKenna Hamstring 6-8 weeks
Joel Smith Shoulder 12 weeks
Aaron vandenBerg Heel 6-8 weeks
Josh Wagner Shoulder 12 weeks
Sam Weideman Corked leg Test

Add Jake Spencer, Tim Smith and possibly Christian Petracca to that. Questions over the availability of Brayshaw too.

If I'm an opposition supporter I'm looking at that going 'big deal'

Hulett King McKenna wouldn't be playing anyway
Garland Wagner are fringe players at best
Smith X2 have played 1 and 2 games

Only Gawn and Lewis really hurt, it's more so been the timing of losing blokes in the game rather than the numbers
 
They don't help but we should have won the last three games, injuries are a bit of a cop out. If that list Gawn, Lewis and Weideman (debatable) are clearly best 22, the rest are depth of varying quality. We haven't been able to close out games and still have the same bad fade outs. That's on the coach and leadership group. I can't see that we're stronger in those areas than previous years when Lewis is removed from the equation and I am not impressed with Goodwin so far.
Strange comment. if Gawn doesn't go down injured early v Geelong and we kick straight we win. So how could that loss be Goodwins fault?
If we weren't missing 4 of out top 8 players we beat Freo and if we didn't run out of legs being 2 players short we probably win last night.

What has Goodwin done to not impress you?
 
No- this list still has the same traits it did post-Neeld, fading out of quarters, inability to win close games, complacency in games we are favourites to win. and as a coach Goodwin hasn't shown that he can change it up when teams get a run on against us. He's been with the club since 2015, developing his game plan and list while Roos wore the flack as figurehead. Now the training wheels are off and we still have many of the same old problems I listed above. Time for excuses is over really, we've not played finals for over a decade now
Lol Neelds teams were down by 10 goals at half time every week. Comparing this team no the one under Neelds makes anything you say utter bullshit
 

blitzer

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Aug 27, 2006
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I really rate the list the Dees are putting together. Not in a they have good potential kind of way but in an actual - if their best 22 was out there they can win against nearly anyone type of way. Losing Gawn for an extended period was seriously the biggest blow for them. I do agree that losing 2 players early in the match probably cost them the game. I think you need to be significantly better than your opponent on the day to cover two early injuries and still win the game.

If Spencer is out for an extended period then I'm not sure if they have any other AFL ready ruckman or if they will be playing KP's in that spot. That will certainly hurt them if they are losing all the hitouts. It always sucks if you have lots of injuries to one particular area of the ground and nobody can really cover multiple injuries to rucks (at least not without dropping performance).

Despite that Gawn by himself can't be the reason they don't make finals. The rest of their injuries are minor as in your typical 3-4 week type stuff. Hogan/Lewis caused their own suspensions so you have to cop that. Dees should be able to rally and still make the finals. Even if they lose a few games at the moment.

I expect they'll be a good shot against us next week - especially with us coming off a 5 day break (although admittedly their break is only 6 days).
 
Apr 13, 2015
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We won't make finals. At this rate we won't win as many games as last year. I'm frustrated after blowing 3 winnable games in a row.

Overall I think we've improved - we just lack a killer punch and are easy to score against on the spread. I'm a Goodwin sceptic but also recognise we're still a very young side. Personally I'd like us to play with a bit more defensive nous when we don't have the run, develop a kick in strategy and stop trying low percentage handballs back into traffic.

Broadly, I couldn't give a s**t whether we made finals - we'd only be making up the numbers ala Richmond 13-15.
 

TheoEpstein

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If I'm an opposition supporter I'm looking at that going 'big deal'

Hulett King McKenna wouldn't be playing anyway
Garland Wagner are fringe players at best
Smith X2 have played 1 and 2 games

Only Gawn and Lewis really hurt, it's more so been the timing of losing blokes in the game rather than the numbers

Yep. Good teams cover these losses and setbacks during games such as you guys copped last night and still find a way to win. It's worth remembering Richmond had 3 best 18 players out as well.
 

donkeypunchd

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Lol Neelds teams were down by 10 goals at half time every week. Comparing this team no the one under Neelds makes anything you say utter bullshit
No one who watched Neelds Melbourne and the current team would compare them quality-wise. Im talking about the bad habits like goalless quarters and tactical inflexibility.
 

donkeypunchd

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Strange comment. if Gawn doesn't go down injured early v Geelong and we kick straight we win. So how could that loss be Goodwins fault?
If we weren't missing 4 of out top 8 players we beat Freo and if we didn't run out of legs being 2 players short we probably win last night.

What has Goodwin done to not impress you?
You serious? The Dockers went on a roll for the third quarter and there was no obvious reaction from the coaching box to put a stop to that by putting players behind the ball etc.
 

TheoEpstein

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We won't make finals. At this rate we won't win as many games as last year. I'm frustrated after blowing 3 winnable games in a row.

Overall I think we've improved - we just lack a killer punch and are easy to score against on the spread. I'm a Goodwin sceptic but also recognise we're still a very young side. Personally I'd like us to play with a bit more defensive nous when we don't have the run, develop a kick in strategy and stop trying low percentage handballs back into traffic.

Broadly, I couldn't give a s**t whether we made finals - we'd only be making up the numbers ala Richmond 13-15.

Richmond won 15 games in '15 and played good footy against all the other top sides including beating both eventual grand finalists. To me it's a stretch to say we were making up the numbers. In '13 they won 15 games as well and finished half a game outside the top 4.

Richmond were 1 month younger on average last night, making Richmond the 3rd youngest team for the round and Melbourne the 4th.
 
Jul 23, 2004
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Been a weird year so far as a Dees supporter. We've played some really good footy and some horrific stuff too. That loss to Freo hurt big time - such a huge difference between being 3-1 and 2-2.

Our depth is being tested by key injuries and dumb suspensions so if we can go 3-3 over the next 6 weeks, it would be OK and hopefully we can build confidence and form over the second half of the year.
I think horrific is an overstatement. I'm of quite a different view; I've seen us playing terrific, attractive footy in the main - light years away from the slop we've dished up over the last decade - with a few poorer quarters here and there. Last night we were obviously cooked in the last quarter being depleted by injury. We may well not make finals, but my head's not in the oven, not by a long shot
 

Topkent

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Richmond won 15 games in '15 and played good footy against all the other top sides including beating both eventual grand finalists. To me it's a stretch to say we were making up the numbers. In '13 they won 15 games as well and finished half a game outside the top 4.

Richmond were 1 month younger on average last night, making Richmond the 3rd youngest team for the round and Melbourne the 4th.

Right and to be fair we pummeled you in the first half and it should have been over at half time
Losing our ruck and second forward before the second half plus having Petracca on one knee was always going to tell.
 
Apr 13, 2015
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Richmond won 15 games in '15 and played good footy against all the other top sides including beating both eventual grand finalists. To me it's a stretch to say we were making up the numbers. In '13 they won 15 games as well and finished half a game outside the top 4.

Richmond were 1 month younger on average last night, making Richmond the 3rd youngest team for the round and Melbourne the 4th.
Richmond 13-15 = Melbourne 04-06. H&A downhill skiing only to get shown up in finals. The point stands.
 

rhaz

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We are still putting young and inexperienced teams on the park each week. The talent is there but you can't speed up game experience.

Unfortunately some of the relatively more experienced players have stalled this year (Viney, Tyson) and the very experienced players have been idiots (Lewis) or fallen off a cliff (Vince).
 
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