if you could make a new team what would it be?

[madmug]

A team in tasmania is an investment HOW?

North are pick pocketing the tasmanian government? lol are you serious dude.

The tasmania government chose to spend that money as an investment to bring more money to the state... a team in tasmania is not at investment at all where are you getting these ideas from

nonsense laughable points due to your irrational and sad hate of victoria.

Your getting paranoid again. Its not about 'hate'. After all I have family in Melbourne.
Its about fairness & a getting a fair go. FIFO teams dont bring money into Tasmania. They take it out. The argument about generating economic ativity is not that straight forward. Most of the money is generated by internal activity within Tasmania. The fact is not that many people come over with the visiting teams. If we had our own team all that economic benefit would be felt here & not mainly used to prop up the Victorian football economy.

 

[Gibbke]

I can't vouch for North, but I do know the Launceston economy gets a real kick when the Hawks are in town. That's what everyone forgets - the deal is driven by business, and is a deal between the state government and Hawthorn based upon tourism income for local business. It does generate money, and is a success from that viewpoint...

North is different, and I don't know the numbers, but much of this is offset by the private sponsorship (TT?) that is helping to fund the deal. Not sure of the benefits exactly, seeing as Bellerive is a long way from Hobart by comparison...

Either way, you can't use this example in the footy expansion debate because it isn't driven by footy in Tasmania, and isn't part of any expansion agenda by the AFL, as the 1980's Sydney and mid 2000's Carrara games were. What happens with these has bugger all to do with any serious bid. And "pickpocketting" is a stupid term...it's called investment, and you have to spend money to make money...there are a million examples of groups going to the government for funding who get accepted because there is a wider benefit caused by the government underwriting them, and this is the one with the biggest profile...of course it's generated by internal activity within Tasmania, that's the entire point - but to do that you have to provide a stimulus, which is these two teams...not much else going for Tassie tourism in the middle of winter...

 

[madmug]

I can't vouch for North, but I do know the Launceston economy gets a real kick when the Hawks are in town. That's what everyone forgets - the deal is driven by business, and is a deal between the state government and Hawthorn based upon tourism income for local business. It does generate money, and is a success from that viewpoint...

North is different, and I don't know the numbers, but much of this is offset by the private sponsorship (TT?) that is helping to fund the deal. Not sure of the benefits exactly, seeing as Bellerive is a long way from Hobart by comparison...

Either way, you can't use this example in the footy expansion debate because it isn't driven by footy in Tasmania, and isn't part of any expansion agenda by the AFL, as the 1980's Sydney and mid 2000's Carrara games were. What happens with these has bugger all to do with any serious bid. And "pickpocketting" is a stupid term...it's called investment, and you have to spend money to make money...there are a million examples of groups going to the government for funding who get accepted because there is a wider benefit caused by the government underwriting them, and this is the one with the biggest profile...of course it's generated by internal activity within Tasmania, that's the entire point - but to do that you have to provide a stimulus, which is these two teams...not much else going for Tassie tourism in the middle of winter...

Launy gets an economic boost yes. Most of it comes from within Tassie. Southerners crossing the Mason Dixon line, Coasters coming down, locals going to the pubs & some FIFO's from interstate. How many do you think would come over from the mainland to watch Hawks v Freo??
The same now applies for North Melbourne one would suspect. Although I wouldnt have though too many would have come down to watch North play GWS.
Having our own team would see much the same situation except the money stays here & goes round in the local economy.
Also having a local team gives our local kids a better chance at getting a rookie place. Rather than being overlooked because of cost & distance. The AFL also has the flow on affect of boosting the local league with more professional coaching/fitness/management involvement. I think we would see more kids being improved up to draft standard.
Having 10 clubs in Victoria & none here is crazy from a national competition point of view. But not from a VFL point of view perhaps.

 

[Kwality]

I am not denying it might be an investment for Tasmania, but the question was how is it an investment for the AFL, and all you could answer was "developing our nursery" (where only a very small portion of players are picked from, and will continue to decrease in the future). You can say "raping ground" (even though i think it is against BF rules), but it is a feeder comp and did what feeder comps are suppose to do, give the best players to the better leagues where the standard and pay is higher.

The Tasmanian government only made this agreement with the clubs as an INVESTMENT to make MORE money for the state (tourism ect), they did NOT make the arrangement to lose a lot of money and cost tasmanian tax payers.

Does every game played need to break even? is that even possible? some teams will always struggle to break even when playing small drawing opponents (something a tassy team wouldn't help), this happens right around the world and is just a part of footy, its not an issue.

AFL has the 3rd highest attendance in the world despite having a relatively tiny population compared to other sport loving countries, we have NO trouble getting bums on seats.

The investment for the AFL is the nursery again starts producing the Baldocks, the Stewarts et al. For Tas, a side that hosts 11 games compared to 6 for the FIFO Melbourne teams.

& games that cant make a profit are not a problem for 36 ... not sure why you'd even suggest Tas taxpayers are losing money, when loss making isnt a problem - a Tas team playing 11 games in Tas against all comers ( even Collingwood) will produce a far greater return for the Tas economy than 6 games that are selected because they cant make a profit in Melbourne.
I am not saying 36, not saying the Hawks deal is a dud for Tas taxpayers, nor is the Norths Hobart deal.

The bums on seats problem is only a problem for som e clubs & to seek comfort in stats that we all understand 36, we ALL understand stats & they are irrelevant when discussing a niche sector of the AFL annual FIXture.

 

[Colonial]

[quote="blaze036, post: 26409962, member: ]tasmanian's filled with envy that victoria has 10 teams and they have none

Have no fear, dude - we might not agree on the landscape, but Madmug and myself are hellbent on seeing a dark green two headed monster invading the AFL and smashing the f### out of mainlanders on a weekly basis...a trip to Tasmania being the equivalent of an away game to Kardinia, 20000 feral Tasmanians making Collingwood supporters want their mums, and a premiership cup wrapped in Dark Green...works for me...would make better tv than the latest empty house at Skoda, too...[/quote]

Maybe but in the long run theres more benefit commercially in Giants territory than "Devils".

Oh and so I fit in to all the other kiddie responces. nah nah nah We have a team and you dont...

 

[Gibbke]

Have no fear, dude - we might not agree on the landscape, but Madmug and myself are hellbent on seeing a dark green two headed monster invading the AFL and smashing the f### out of mainlanders on a weekly basis...a trip to Tasmania being the equivalent of an away game to Kardinia, 20000 feral Tasmanians making Collingwood supporters want their mums, and a premiership cup wrapped in Dark Green...works for me...would make better tv than the latest empty house at Skoda, too...

Maybe but in the long run theres more benefit commercially in Giants territory than "Devils".

Oh and so I fit in to all the other kiddie responces. nah nah nah We have a team and you dont...[/quote]Well, no need for that...other teams have di ckhead supporters, so don't start a new GWS tradition just to keep up with the Jones's...GWS's approach has ticked every single box for me for legitimacy and positivity, and they could very well be my second team at this point...it's a complicated reasoning that says how can something so wrong be so right, or I'm just barracking for the hopeless underdog and I'll be off the bandwagon next year, who knows...both of the new teams have thought long and hard about how they can compete, and it's a credit to them...

But at no stage will a GWS match ever hold the same attraction for me as a traditional rivalry...they are a franchise like a Macca's in India...I know what I want to see, and I know what I'll get...life's like that...so you guys go count the beans and rejoice in your fiscal value to AFL house and any number of suits in commercial tv, and I'll sit out on the porch and wonder how cool it would be to have a dark green team on the MCG in late September smashing the f### out of some mainland scum...

 

[madmug]

Have no fear, dude - we might not agree on the landscape, but Madmug and myself are hellbent on seeing a dark green two headed monster invading the AFL and smashing the f### out of mainlanders on a weekly basis...a trip to Tasmania being the equivalent of an away game to Kardinia, 20000 feral Tasmanians making Collingwood supporters want their mums, and a premiership cup wrapped in Dark Green...works for me...would make better tv than the latest empty house at Skoda, too...

Maybe but in the long run theres more benefit commercially in Giants territory than "Devils".

Oh and so I fit in to all the other kiddie responces. nah nah nah We have a team and you dont...[/quote]

I thought you might be above all this.
GWS is the pointy end of expansion & thus a big part of the future of the game. Yes it is the AFLs club established on footballs equivalent of Mars, but it needs time & effort. The outcome might not be certain but Australian rules footy must be in the Sydney battle of the codes.
It is understandable that some people who want a Tassie team see it as GWS V Tassie. I dont. & I dont think others should either.
The argument is over why we continue to be sucked dry by old VFL clubs & why we see our local football decimated year after year for SFA in return.
Give us our own team Vlad, you bastard

 

[Engimal]

hawthorn appeared "downright rooted" in the 80's, and collingwood not that long after... look at them now...
All clubs are financially viable, and their crowds/membership will only continue to grow in the future as Victoria's population grows. The 18 team system is doing fine for everyone apart from AFL-house hating cynics and tasmanian's filled with envy that victoria has 10 teams and they have none

Envy? No.
Confusion? Yes.
While I don't call for the closing of any Vic Club, the AFL should have been using the 2 new teams in the Northern Territory or Tassie, before 2 states that already have teams.

 

[madmug]

Envy? No.
Confusion? Yes.
While I don't call for the closing of any Vic Club, the AFL should have been using the 2 new teams in the Northern Territory or Tassie, before 2 states that already have teams.

The only ones calling for an end to Vic clubs are BF posters calling for other clubs to be culled, not their own club though.
I suggest that excess Vic clubs simply play in the VFL from whence they came. Its clear their are too many teams in one place.
Having two in Qld & in NSW isnt the issue. Infact having a game week in those places makes good sense for marketing & media purposes. IMO

 

[Engimal]

The only ones calling for an end to Vic clubs are BF posters calling for other clubs to be culled, not their own club though.
I suggest that excess Vic clubs simply play in the VFL from whence they came. Its clear their are too many teams in one place.
Having two in Qld & in NSW isnt the issue. Infact having a game week in those places makes good sense for marketing & media purposes. IMO

But the comp will never be national without a Tas team or a NT team.

 

[blaze036]

But the comp will never be national without a Tas team or a NT team.

Yes it will.. thats like saying the world cup won't be the world cup without tanzania and chad .

the NRL call themselves national despite no team in SA WA NT Tas

 

[FootyJunkie]

the NRL call themselves national despite no team in SA WA NT Tas

until they do, it should be called Eastern Rugby League

 

[blaze036]

Envy? No.
Confusion? Yes.
While I don't call for the closing of any Vic Club, the AFL should have been using the 2 new teams in the Northern Territory or Tassie, before 2 states that already have teams.

You clearly don't understand expansion

 

[madmug]

But the comp will never be national without a Tas team or a NT team.

Well the yanks call everything the 'World Series' with no one else in it!
I dont care what they call the AFL as long as we get a gig sooner rather than later.
No More FIFO's, Give Tassie own team Vlad, you Bastard etc, etc.

 

[Engimal]

thats like saying the world cup won't be the world cup without tanzania and chad .

I'm talking about real sports...

But with 62% (roughly) of the country, how could it be considered national?

 

[Colonial]

Well, no need for that...other teams have di ckhead supporters, so don't start a new GWS tradition just to keep up with the Jones's...GWS's approach has ticked every single box for me for legitimacy and positivity, and they could very well be my second team at this point...it's a complicated reasoning that says how can something so wrong be so right, or I'm just barracking for the hopeless underdog and I'll be off the bandwagon next year, who knows...both of the new teams have thought long and hard about how they can compete, and it's a credit to them...

But at no stage will a GWS match ever hold the same attraction for me as a traditional rivalry...they are a franchise like a Macca's in India...I know what I want to see, and I know what I'll get...life's like that...so you guys go count the beans and rejoice in your fiscal value to AFL house and any number of suits in commercial tv, and I'll sit out on the porch and wonder how cool it would be to have a dark green team on the MCG in late September smashing the f### out of some mainland scum...

The rolled eyes I thought gave it away I was joking. Oh well...

Well of course you would hold more attachment to a tassie club, judging from your location you are Tassie. Would be like me saying Id have more attachment to a club in perth than Sydney.

So let me get this straight, An AFL club created for the people of western Sydney (the largest metro area in the country and home to some of the finest sportsmen this country has produced) is Maccas and a sham. Yet an AFL club created for the people of Tassie will be a glorious peoples club and a true footy team?? WTF?? This is why as much as I want a club in Tassie (as well as a few other areas) I get annoyed..

 

[Colonial]

I thought you might be above all this.
GWS is the pointy end of expansion & thus a big part of the future of the game. Yes it is the AFLs club established on footballs equivalent of Mars, but it needs time & effort. The outcome might not be certain but Australian rules footy must be in the Sydney battle of the codes.
It is understandable that some people who want a Tassie team see it as GWS V Tassie. I dont. & I dont think others should either.
The argument is over why we continue to be sucked dry by old VFL clubs & why we see our local football decimated year after year for SFA in return.
Give us our own team Vlad, you bastard

Haha as I said, rolled eyes = jokes

As ive stated a ton of times in numerous other threads, I do think Tassie (as well as Canberra) should have their own clubs. But im never going to start saying other clubs (or which ones) should die to make it happen.

 

[FootyJunkie]

solution, move sydney to tassie

 

[Colonial]

solution, move sydney to tassie

Wouldnt fit..

 

[FootyJunkie]

Wouldnt fit..

bend the coat hanger a bit over the derwent

 

[Colonial]

bend the coat hanger a bit over the derwent

A bit?? We'd need to snap the damn thing in half and then some

 

[madmug]

A bit?? We'd need to snap the damn thing in half and then some

The Derwent river is pretty wide you know! The Tasman bridge is about 200 metres longer than the Sydney coathanger. We might have a problem fitting the extra 5million people in though.
I've got a spare room in my joint, but as for the rest????

 

[Colonial]

The Derwent river is pretty wide you know! The Tasman bridge is about 200 metres longer than the Sydney coathanger. We might have a problem fitting the extra 5million people in though.
I've got a spare room in my joint, but as for the rest????

I was meaning to fit everything in.

 

[Gibbke]

The rolled eyes I thought gave it away I was joking. Oh well...

Well of course you would hold more attachment to a tassie club, judging from your location you are Tassie. Would be like me saying Id have more attachment to a club in perth than Sydney.

So let me get this straight, An AFL club created for the people of western Sydney (the largest metro area in the country and home to some of the finest sportsmen this country has produced) is Maccas and a sham. Yet an AFL club created for the people of Tassie will be a glorious peoples club and a true footy team?? WTF?? This is why as much as I want a club in Tassie (as well as a few other areas) I get annoyed..

Not entirely accurate, but you're in the ball park...

I've been watching this sport since the 1970's, and there is one constant- established rivalries are the driving interest in this sport. The worst games for attracting interest and attendance are Vic home games v interstaters, and any game in NSW or Qld if the home team isn't a direct premiership contender. You speak of sporting champions from WS - name me an AFL star born and bred in this area. The area is a statistic, a carrot for bean counters, but it has contributed absolutely nothing in 150 years of this sport - nothing! And yet AD tells us that GWS "deserves a team"...direct quote. 150 years of Tasmanian footy history, standing as one of the Big 4 footy states which has only diminished recently, over 300 senior VFL/AFL players and shitloads of Brownlow medallists from a state with a population a small fraction of the disinterested suburban sprawl that is GWS...are you still wondering why this pisses us off so much...!

Don't get me wrong - I said it before - I genuinely admire the way the expansion franchises have gone about their business, and on game day, I do what all footy fans do and sit down and barrack for the underdog against teams I despise (read: GWS/GC v anyone not Hawthorn from the old VFL), but don't get naively sucked in by the AFL's public standpoint. These teams are there because they attract the tv rights dollar, and make a gigantic sale possible with a local game in every state every week usually at the same timeslot. They aren't going to tell you that - they instead talk about "growth", "spreading the gospel"...the real fact is that your team enables Seven in Sydney to sell advertising space during the AFL telecast at a reasonable price because they can guarantee a local and therefore better watched product (not Origin level, but it doesn't have to be, just steady during a dead ratings timeslot on the weekend, functioning in NSW/Qld while they pump the absolute f### out of it in WA/SA/Vic)...I could add another 1000 words to this and tell you all about Qld's tv coverage since about 2006, and then you'll see exactly how how and why expansion has worked...because of this, you can sell these rights for over a billion and prop up all the clubs, which is and has been the entire point of an AFL all along...it's the only value of a "developing state" expansion franchise, they add nothing else, and the only thing Tasmania can't deliver...

 

[Colonial]

Not entirely accurate, but you're in the ball park...

I've been watching this sport since the 1970's, and there is one constant- established rivalries are the driving interest in this sport. (Given time Swans Vs Giants will develope into one of the big rivalrys. The setup/geography in Sydney has always been east v west).
The worst games for attracting interest and attendance are Vic home games v interstaters (Umm isnt the Eagles one of the biggest clubs in the game with sellouts etc, your comment seems very vic centric) , and any game in NSW or Qld if the home team isn't a direct premiership contender. You speak of sporting champions from WS - name me an AFL star born and bred in this area.(There arent, what i was saying was that the sporting talent that we have in the area, as well as a love of sport fullstop, over time will develop through the academies/juniors that are being setup. We will end up with our home grown hero's etc)
The area is a statistic, a carrot for bean counters, but it has contributed absolutely nothing in 150 years of this sport - nothing! And yet AD tells us that GWS "deserves a team"...direct quote.(Yes it is, and while it could be explained better, we are an area of, going on stats I think, 3 million people. The largest and most talented area in the country. He sees not only the dollar value of having a team for this area but also the talent development side)
150 years of Tasmanian footy history, standing as one of the Big 4 footy states which has only diminished recently, over 300 senior VFL/AFL players and shitloads of Brownlow medallists from a state with a population a small fraction of the disinterested suburban sprawl that is GWS...are you still wondering why this pisses us off so much...! (I can see why, but if you want people on board (im one of them who is) for a Tassie team, then calling for the death of every club that you see as having a slight limp or calling us or the Suns maccas, just because they set up a club in another area instead of yours, is not going to gain popularity)

Don't get me wrong - I said it before - I genuinely admire the way the expansion franchises (*cough Clubs *cough) have gone about their business, and on game day, I do what all footy fans do and sit down and barrack for the underdog against teams I despise (read: GWS/GC v anyone not Hawthorn from the old VFL), but don't get naively sucked in by the AFL's public standpoint (Umm not naive, Im from Western Sydney following my local club, love everything they have done and the way they have gone about it.).
These teams are there because they attract the tv rights dollar, and make a gigantic sale possible with a local game in every state every week usually at the same timeslot. They aren't going to tell you that - they instead talk about "growth", "spreading the gospel"(Actually its both, and I do think the AFL has acknowledged this numerous times saying how having a game every week in every major population centre allows them the dollars they get so that they can grow the game, if it was all about $$$ why spend a fortune on growth/juniors in Sydney and Sth East Qld as well as money spent on upgraded stadiums?? Why not just dump say the giants in ANZ and say good luck to ya we have our 2 games a week in the biggest city)...
the real fact is that your team enables Seven in Sydney to sell advertising space during the AFL telecast at a reasonable price because they can guarantee a local and therefore better watched product (not Origin level, but it doesn't have to be, just steady during a dead ratings timeslot on the weekend, functioning in NSW/Qld while they pump the absolute f### out of it in WA/SA/Vic) ( Umm we actually get all Sydney and Giants games live, really wouldnt call that "dead". League fans would die to have that, and umm origin level happens a total of 3 games a year.)...
I could add another 1000 words to this and tell you all about Qld's tv coverage since about 2006, and then you'll see exactly how how and why expansion has worked...because of this, you can sell these rights for over a billion and prop up all the clubs, which is and has been the entire point of an AFL all along...it's the only value of a "developing state" expansion franchise, they add nothing else, and the only thing Tasmania can't deliver (actually, as with all growth it takes time, and with a population base as large as Western Sydney we add a bit more than tv $$'s, though yes as of right now thats what we bring to the table. Ask that question in 10 years and it will be completely different)...

Any way as i said i want a Tassie team, but I am glad they went Western Sydney 1st, not naive, just selfish, like any footy fan really...