Society/Culture If you were on Newstart, how would you spend your $40 a day?

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
7,550
14,492
AFL Club
Carlton
You could choose 90% of the planet, same principle.
So easy to whinge from a chair at a coffee shop in one of the most privileged countries in the world.


On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
... so, because Cambodia's s**t, Australians aren't allowed to discuss their own homelessness, their own poverty, or the fact that the safety net designed to catch them should iniquity strike in the form of joblessness or recession is being dismantled slowly via inaction?

Seems legit.

:drunk:
 

Echoes

Drain the swamp.
May 2, 2019
1,581
1,526
AFL Club
St Kilda
... so, because Cambodia's s**t, Australians aren't allowed to discuss their own homelessness, their own poverty, or the fact that the safety net designed to catch them should iniquity strike in the form of joblessness or recession is being dismantled slowly via inaction?

Seems legit.

:drunk:
Was certainly one of the baser ‘arguments’ against raising the rate of Newstart I have heard I’m afraid.
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,777
5,066
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
You need to travel a bit. Cambodia and like you conveniently ignored up to 90% of the world's population don't have $20aud in their bank accounts. And you're whining about the unfairness of government hand-outs
... so, because Cambodia's s**t, Australians aren't allowed to discuss their own homelessness, their own poverty, or the fact that the safety net designed to catch them should iniquity strike in the form of joblessness or recession is being dismantled slowly via inaction?

Seems legit.

:drunk:
On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
7,550
14,492
AFL Club
Carlton
You need to travel a bit. Cambodia and like you conveniently ignored up to 90% of the world's population don't have $20aud in their bank accounts. And you're whining about the unfairness of government hand-outs

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
Or, alternatively, I'm not ignoring the poverty at home whilst reaping the benefits of my own affluence.

Again, this isn't about me, not anymore; I have 2 jobs now. I'm not 'whinging', either; my knowledge of the newstart and jobactive system is based both on my own experience of it and what I've observed with other people. And I return to the blatant illogic of your argument: saying '90% of the world's population don't have $20 AUS in their bank accounts' whilst true doesn't invalidate the fact that by most measures the Newstart payment is too low, and the WFTD and the Jobactive system created to support it is both a money and a time sink that doesn't result in the unemployed getting jobs, instead wasting time that could be better spent elsewhere reskilling.
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,777
5,066
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
You make it sound like it's an apocalypse.

Sure the most vulnerable people in society should be looked after.

A question, if Newstart is too low which it probably is, what is the number it *should* be at?
Or, alternatively, I'm not ignoring the poverty at home whilst reaping the benefits of my own affluence.

Again, this isn't about me, not anymore; I have 2 jobs now. I'm not 'whinging', either; my knowledge of the newstart and jobactive system is based both on my own experience of it and what I've observed with other people. And I return to the blatant illogic of your argument: saying '90% of the world's population don't have $20 AUS in their bank accounts' whilst true doesn't invalidate the fact that by most measures the Newstart payment is too low, and the WFTD and the Jobactive system created to support it is both a money and a time sink that doesn't result in the unemployed getting jobs, instead wasting time that could be better spent elsewhere reskilling.
On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

cartwright

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
6,396
5,940
here
AFL Club
St Kilda
You make it sound like it's an apocalypse.

Sure the most vulnerable people in society should be looked after.

A question, if Newstart is too low which it probably is, what is the number it *should* be at?

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
That’s been answered, it should be increased by $75 per week.
 

Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
7,550
14,492
AFL Club
Carlton
You make it sound like it's an apocalypse.

Sure the most vulnerable people in society should be looked after.

A question, if Newstart is too low which it probably is, what is the number it *should* be at?

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
I make it sound like it's a problem because it is. Glad to see we at least agree that a) the most vulnerable people should be looked after, and b) the Newstart payment is too low.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,777
5,066
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
So how is a 75 dollar increase going to assist with a better standard of living?
A grand total of 325 per week . Wow


How will the same argument not continue that centre link is too low to survive.
Because it will be.


Welfare accounts for 35% of government expenditure.

So add another 25% to that bill and looks like you'll be working a third job.

It's all well and good to increase payments , but what are you going to sacrifice personally to achieve that ?

And you don't think pensioners deserve more ? I do, after all they've worked a lifetime and paid lots of taxes.

So let's increase the pension too, which is arguably fair.

Going by your logic , we need to achieve fairness, so we'll need to all pay at least 60% tax in our earnings.
This means roughly speaking, we work 2 days for ourselves and 3 days for the government to re distribute the money to this less fortunate.

Youre a better bloke then me if that's your idea of a fair society.

That’s been answered, it should be increased by $75 per week.
On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,777
5,066
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Unemployed are not the most vulnerable.
The disabled, the elderly , children displaced from their families, the mentally unwell, the list is arguably larger and pushes the unemployed further down the list.
The government's role is to ensure a viable and healthy economy so that we don't have joblessness for those that want to Work
I make it sound like it's a problem because it is. Glad to see we at least agree that a) the most vulnerable people should be looked after, and b) the Newstart payment is too low.
On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

cartwright

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
6,396
5,940
here
AFL Club
St Kilda
So how is a 75 dollar increase going to assist with a better standard of living?
A grand total of 325 per week . Wow


How will the same argument not continue that centre link is too low to survive.
Because it will be.


Welfare accounts for 35% of government expenditure.

So add another 25% to that bill and looks like you'll be working a third job.

It's all well and good to increase payments , but what are you going to sacrifice personally to achieve that ?

And you don't think pensioners deserve more ? I do, after all they've worked a lifetime and paid lots of taxes.

So let's increase the pension too, which is arguably fair.

Going by your logic , we need to achieve fairness, so we'll need to all pay at least 60% tax in our earnings.
This means roughly speaking, we work 2 days for ourselves and 3 days for the government to re distribute the money to this less fortunate.

Youre a better bloke then me if that's your idea of a fair society.



On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
$75 dollars a week. Not a day.

Aged pension makes up most of welfare expenditure. The aged pension has doubled in real terms since 2000.

Newstart hasn’t been increased since 1994!
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,777
5,066
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I know you meant a week, the figures are staggering arnt they.
When you get taxed at 60% let me know how you feel about supporting increased centre link payment.

Unfortunately no one wants to turn up to work to work for the government for 3 days to pay for this.

The government is better off spending our tax to encourage economic activity and create jobs.

Do you understand this logic ?
$75 dollars a week. Not a day.

Aged pension makes up most of welfare expenditure. The aged pension has doubled in real terms since 2000.

Newstart hasn’t been increased since 1994!
On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Last edited:

Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
7,550
14,492
AFL Club
Carlton
Unemployed are not the most vulnerable.
The disabled, the elderly , children displaced from their families, the mentally unwell, the list is arguably larger and pushes the unemployed further down the list.
The government's role is to ensure a viable and healthy economy so that we don't have joblessness for those that want to Work

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
D'you wanna create a Venn diagram of your vulnerable list and the poor/unemployed, see how much they overlap?

The government's role is significantly more complex than that, but sure, I'll play along for now. If 'the government's role is to ensure a viable and healthy economy so that we don't have joblessness for those that want to work', how then do you justify the various Jobactive services, which are inefficient at their management of the jobless and do not assist in them getting employed, with few exceptions? How do you justify WFTD programs, which in fact remove paid positions at entry level or manufacture work for poor people to do?

How do you justify the incredibly inefficient and arbitrary 20 jobs applied quota, given it basically incentivises the jobless to spam employers?
 

cartwright

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
6,396
5,940
here
AFL Club
St Kilda
I know you meant a week, the figures are staggering arnt they.
When you get taxed at 60% let me know how you feel about supporting increased centre link payment.

Unfortunately no one wants to turn up to work to work for the government for 2 days to pay for this.


On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
$6b on franking credits.

This increase will cost $3b.

Due to the nature of living week to week, it’ll be spent immediately.
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,777
5,066
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Are you asking me for my opinion of various public servant departments?
Hey i didnt want to offend anyone.
The less I have to do with them the better.

Society will always have circa 4% unemployable for various reasons.
They need to be looked after.

But if somehow, your trying to categorise those unemploymed that don't fit that 4% category ahead for example, of the elderly in terms of needs and justification for increases in funding through Centrelink payments then I'm lost by your logic.
D'you wanna create a Venn diagram of your vulnerable list and the poor/unemployed, see how much they overlap?

The government's role is significantly more complex than that, but sure, I'll play along for now. If 'the government's role is to ensure a viable and healthy economy so that we don't have joblessness for those that want to work', how then do you justify the various Jobactive services, which are inefficient at their management of the jobless and do not assist in them getting employed, with few exceptions? How do you justify WFTD programs, which in fact remove paid positions at entry level or manufacture work for poor people to do?

How do you justify the incredibly inefficient and arbitrary 20 jobs applied quota, given it basically incentivises the jobless to spam employers?
On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,777
5,066
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
You do understand the government distributes 198 billion to welfare ?
I gather your some how trying to rob Peter , to pay Paul an extra $75 per week for doing nothing. 3 or 6 billion won't even come close to funding it. Need an extra zero next to that 3 or 6 billion

$6b on franking credits.

This increase will cost $3b.

Due to the nature of living week to week, it’ll be spent immediately.
On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

cartwright

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
6,396
5,940
here
AFL Club
St Kilda
You do understand the government distributes 198 billion to welfare ?
I gather your some how trying to rob Peter , to pay Paul an extra $75 per week for doing nothing. 3 or 6 billion won't even come close to funding it. Need an extra zero next to that 3 or 6 billion



On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
That’s the figure Deloitte stated:

“The report by Deloitte Access Economics, released on Monday morning, said the policy to increase the incomes of more than 700,000 people by $10.71 a day would cost the federal budget $3.3bn a year.”

 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,777
5,066
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
So newstart recepients deserve a rise ahead of pensioners?
Newstart is not designed to live off,the pension is.
I don't believe the true costs have been accounted for, out of context snippets in a news article
That’s the figure Deloitte stated:

“The report by Deloitte Access Economics, released on Monday morning, said the policy to increase the incomes of more than 700,000 people by $10.71 a day would cost the federal budget $3.3bn a year.”

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
Sep 21, 2009
9,987
7,980
AFL Club
St Kilda
So newstart recepients deserve a rise ahead of pensioners?
Newstart is not designed to live off,the pension is.
I don't believe the true costs have been accounted for, out of context snippets in a news article


On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
Newstart recipients aren't your enemy.

They are probably no different to you in many ways, they've just hit a rough patch in life.

Should we have a system that means once you hit that rough patch, that you are relegated to this 'underclass'. Or do we want a system that helps you stay on your feet, and get back into gainful employment?


Yes some people abuse the welfare system. But the majority don't.
And for them to be treated as filth just because they've hit a rough patch is a blight on our society.

The amount of money going into preventing people accessing Newstart, and going to private companies that don't benefit anyone, is what you should be targeting.
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,777
5,066
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
There is a sector in each element of society crying out for funding. Each with legitimate claims

Kind of impossible to fully fund every element of the public service system.

Im not against newstart recepients receiving more, I just don't think most of you understand there are other needs being addressed before them.
Those that are incapable of looking after themselves

Sure, we could fund everything based on equallity of outcome, but to do so, we'd all need to be at a much higher tax bracket.

Which Australians won't like.

The systematic support of the Aussie dole bludger lifestyle ended 20 years ago.

I don't dispute the issues with the employment services.

There is a thing called income protection insurance, most people can get some sort of protection, at a cost through. And I bet nobody wants to fork out the premiums for these either, but expect others to do so when they need it








Newstart recipients aren't your enemy.

They are probably no different to you in many ways, they've just hit a rough patch in life.

Should we have a system that means once you hit that rough patch, that you are relegated to this 'underclass'. Or do we want a system that helps you stay on your feet, and get back into gainful employment?


Yes some people abuse the welfare system. But the majority don't.
And for them to be treated as filth just because they've hit a rough patch is a blight on our society.

The amount of money going into preventing people accessing Newstart, and going to private companies that don't benefit anyone, is what you should be targeting.
On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Last edited:

Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
7,550
14,492
AFL Club
Carlton
Are you asking me for my opinion of various public servant departments?
Hey i didnt want to offend anyone.
The less I have to do with them the better.

Society will always have circa 4% unemployable for various reasons.
They need to be looked after.

But if somehow, your trying to categorise those unemploymed that don't fit that 4% category ahead for example, of the elderly in terms of needs and justification for increases in funding through Centrelink payments then I'm lost by your logic.


On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
Except, they're not public service departments, they're private businesses given government tender, or businesses created specifically for the task of managing WFTD, the Centrelink external aspects of the Newstart payment (including the 20 jobs per month quota) and the various other mundanities that Centrelink cannot do anymore due to numerous funding cuts.

You're not being offensive, now. It's offensive when you accuse someone who is genuinely doing tough that they shouldn't complain about their own problems because people in Cambodia or elsewhere are surviving on $20.

And I'm not categorising s**t. If you look at the most vulnerable parts of our society, you will find a significant overlap between them and the unemployed.
 

Top Bottom