Society/Culture If you were on Newstart, how would you spend your $40 a day?

Herne Hill Hammer

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Agree 100%, but my experiences with Jobactive (which in fairness were some years back), suggests that in practice they can't often do this because the employment consultants are overworked and lack genuine recruitment and business expertise. DES is better but the same problems are often still apparent.



myGov IMO isn't particularly user-friendly and older job seekers in particular may need help negotiating it. Is this assistance provided?



I've spoken to a few people who used to work in meatworks and they told me some pretty disturbing stories.

With respect, I reckon that 90% of people (foreigners and Australians alike) couldn't work in one for long without developing physical/psychological issues - so IMO there's probably not much point relocating to work in one unless it's relatively close by (like in a neighbouring town). I'm ignoring issues like cultural fit as well because I'm not sure how relevant that is in meatworks (it matters in professional environments).

RE the rural sector, there's IMO nothing wrong with relocating to work there, provided that the work is stable, suitable and paid well enough to offset any cost (financial and otherwise) of relocating. My understanding could be entirely wrong, but I was under the impression that backpackers were drafted in for seasonal, minimum wage work - which I don't think a reasonable person would relocate for because you lose too much of your money relocating back and forth.
Backpackers will do things like fruit picking for s**tty money, a large portion of which is taken by the property owner for board because they let them sleep on the floor in an old shearing shed and cook them a couple of snags.
 

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Herne Hill Hammer

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At the end of the day, all of this arguing backwards and forwards is really pointless. If people don't / won't work, we're not going to let them starve to death and we certainly don't want them breaking into our homes and cars and robbing us to survive, so just give them the money and be done with it.

Save all the billions on compliance and enforcement and build share houses where people can live and pool their resources, perhaps have a facilitator living in it too, to teach life skills, cooking, budgeting, gardening etc etc. Build drop in centres where they can hang out, maybe learn some skills, use computers for job seeking etc etc.

It's gotta be cheaper than the hard line approach that we currently have.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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Rental assistance is about $280 per month. Good luck finding a house for that. But most people in Australia don't rent and there's no assistance for mortgage payments. There will be many people having that awkward conversation with their bank and some facing foreclosure.

The health care card provides discounts for some expenses eg 17.5 per cent off gas and electricity - but the kicker is that if you are unemployed you will be at home more and be using more gas and electricity. Then you still have to find the other 82.5% of the bill when energy prices have increased by over 70% in the last 10 years. Newstart, which is indexed linked, has risen about 20% over the last 10 years. So the value of the health care card discount has significantly declined.

Clearly there will be some people rorting the system, and kids still living with parents who have no bills who can get by on $40 a day. But the Newstart allowance is grossly inadequate for the average person who has bills for rent/mortgage, house insurance, rates, energy, phone, car etc.
Yeah, I don't think that's how rent assistance works. $280 + your own contribution from your payments.
 

Bombermania

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Wait. You're saying former engine plant workers from Ford, or former accountants, project managers and customer service staff at NAB, Telstra and Coles Myer can't just walk into a farming job? This is crazy talk!
Of course it is crazy to think those groups would suit farm roles, and that was part of the point because none of those people you list would pass the qualifications or experience needed, and when it comes to the basis farm hand roles, the farmers/employers would look at those job seekers and know full well that they wont stay long because they will more than likely find those roles boring and from a recruitment angle those roles wont help them find roles in their previous line of work.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
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Of course it is crazy to think those groups would suit farm roles, and that was part of the point because none of those people you list would pass the qualifications or experience needed, and when it comes to the basis farm hand roles, the farmers/employers would look at those job seekers and know full well that they wont stay long because they will more than likely find those roles boring and from a recruitment angle those roles wont help them find roles in their previous line of work.
I was agreeing with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
 

Craven Morehead

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I gathered that, I was simply adding to it because I find people that talk up a job for job sake don't seem to fully understand the labour market.
There's a bit of deliberate misinterpretation of my stance going on here by some.
Obviously, I'm not referring to unemployed skilled professionals coming out here and driving a tractor or going fencing.

What is youth unemployment rate again?
 

Snake_Baker

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RBA boss says raising Newstart more effective than tax cuts for the wealthy

RBA Governor Philip Lowe supports an increase in Newstart to boost the economy. Source: AAP

Reserve Bank of Australia Governor Philip Lowe says despite growth being revised down for 2019, there are signs the economy has reached a "turning point".

Labor MP Alicia Payne questioned whether tax cuts for the wealthy or raising unemployment benefits would have a bigger economic benefit. "In the short run I think you get more stimulus from giving money to people who have a high propensity to spend that money so that's obviously lower income people, so in the short run I think the answer to that is pretty clear," Dr Lowe told the committee.

Looking at the longer term was more complicated, he said.

"We've got to think about the incentives for work and innovation and reward. It may be in the longer run having low tax rate on people who earn higher income either through entrepreneurship or other reasons actually stimulates more growth in the economy so everyone can be better off."

It's not the first time Dr Lowe has publicly backed an increase to the $277-a-week Newstart payment, but he stopped short of calling on the government to raise the amount by $75 as welfare groups are demanding. "Increased spending there would see greater spending in the economy, but it's a balance. The government has to decide where best to spend its scarce resources."

Dr Lowe used the hearing to outline an optimistic view of Australia's economy declaring the nation may have reached a "gentle turning point", paving the way for growth to pick up again next year. But Dr Lowe again reminded governments there is more they could do to get the economy moving, as uncertainty borne of global trade tensions continues to swirl. The central bank this week revised down its growth forecast for 2019, from 2.75 per cent to 2.5 per cent.

 

Bombermania

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There's a bit of deliberate misinterpretation of my stance going on here by some.
Obviously, I'm not referring to unemployed skilled professionals coming out here and driving a tractor or going fencing.

What is youth unemployment rate again?
I was talking generally.

Your comment about Seek shows us part of the problem because for many job seekers, when they turn up to their job network provider, they are basically directed to sit in front of a computer and look at Seek.
 

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Power Raid

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So, our unemployed won't work in an abattoir ,because of a plethora of excuses being thrown around here.
Nor will they work in the rural sector full-stop. Because...excuses.
Now we have to, yet again, expand our backpacker visa scheme to fill a yawning gap in labour requirements and availability.
There's already 150,000 overseas backpackers filling the gap!!
Get off your arse and get a job you bludgers!
The reality is, there is more work than people.

Evidenced by your examples, not having recycling in our own nation, under serviced health and aged care etc

The issue is connecting workers with opportunities, teaching people how to see opportunities and motivating people to grab opportunities.

Sadly we have an education system and culture that teaches rights but not responsibility.

This is a separate debate though to increasing the dole.



We should increase the dole but we should also have work for the dole. Participation is important for mental health which is an ever increasing issue for our society.
 

Gethelred

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Participation is important for mental health which is an ever increasing issue for our society.
This.

A revamping of the WFTD system - to have people on the dole doing internships/entry-level positions with the possibility of moving to full employment after the trial period - would be vastly superior to the current system.
 

Power Raid

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This.

A revamping of the WFTD system - to have people on the dole doing internships/entry-level positions with the possibility of moving to full employment after the trial period - would be vastly superior to the current system.
Yep

There are also people in the community who are worth $1 an hour or even have a negative value by their participation from a pure economic sense.

However everyone should have a place in our society and a right (and obligation) to participate. Even if that’s just a few hours a week and doing something most wouldn’t consider work. Ie a person with severe Down syndrome, participating in an art class with the best piece displayed in a community area.

Their participation should be rewarded appropriately through integration of social welfare and paid work.


Of course there will be issues in its operation but that’s a small price to pay for diversity. Who knows, we may have lower health costs or judicial costs if we looked after our most vulnerable better.
 

Gethelred

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That's my main concern with WFTD arrangements at the moment; plenty of people would be able to do the tasks as set by a WFTD activity, if shifted to being a real stepping stone between unemployment and employment, but what happens to the people who simply are not able to work?

In every society, there is a small percentage of people who cannot work, either because they do not want to or because they simply can't. How would such a system of obligation handle cases like this? Do we not have a prerogative towards other people not to let them starve?
 

eddiesmith

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I was your typical dole bludger, studied for many years living off the government, in latter years I applied for a few jobs, had interviews but always lost out to someone with more experience.

Eventually got bored and got a job, did traffic control, completed a 2 day course, once I got my qualifications, sent in applications to a couple of companies, next day got rung up, had an interview and job within a week. It’s not that hard and with heaps of construction going on, there is an ever growing need. I am sure there are plenty of other jobs out there that are similar with workers in short supply. It’s not a fun job, but if people really want to earn money it’s there. Get overtime, callouts, do night work etc and you’ll be rolling in the money. Get working on a union controlled site and you’ll really rake it in!

Yes there are some people who don’t want to work hard, some that are probably not capable, but if you’re willing to try something different, there is work out there. Half the problem is people and I was guilty of it, have decided this is what I want to do and that’s it even if the opportunities don’t exist.
 

eastfreo75

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I was your typical dole bludger, studied for many years living off the government, in latter years I applied for a few jobs, had interviews but always lost out to someone with more experience.

Eventually got bored and got a job, did traffic control, completed a 2 day course, once I got my qualifications, sent in applications to a couple of companies, next day got rung up, had an interview and job within a week. It’s not that hard and with heaps of construction going on, there is an ever growing need. I am sure there are plenty of other jobs out there that are similar with workers in short supply. It’s not a fun job, but if people really want to earn money it’s there. Get overtime, callouts, do night work etc and you’ll be rolling in the money. Get working on a union controlled site and you’ll really rake it in!

Yes there are some people who don’t want to work hard, some that are probably not capable, but if you’re willing to try something different, there is work out there. Half the problem is people and I was guilty of it, have decided this is what I want to do and that’s it even if the opportunities don’t exist.
People can find job.

The big but if everybody were active their would be still unemployed.
 

Snake_Baker

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Yes, their is meant to be unemployment.

If jobs outstrip demand, then productivity would go down. We all would lose out.
WAGES would go up!

This is why the market is artificially stimulated with immigration.

Multiculturalism is a different thing.

Immigration is important to support the aging population.
Yes, this is also a factor now.
 

eastfreo75

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WAGES would go up!

This is why the market is artificially stimulated with immigration.



Yes, this is also a factor now.
Immigration does hide grows rates for sure.

Australia has been in recession for years if you take out immigration.

Still, take out immigration their still would be unemployment.

High wages and low productivity is very dangerous for an economy. But a lot of these thing it’s always a balancing act.
 

Snake_Baker

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Immigration does hide grows rates for sure.

Australia has been in recession for years if you take out immigration.
We're a bulls**t economy really. A farm on top of a mine.

Still, take out immigration their still would be unemployment.

High wages and low productivity is very dangerous for an economy. But a lot of these thing it’s always a balancing act.
I've got nothing against any foreign battler trying to make a better fist of things for themselves, but the battlers here ARE screwed over by the process, and it's DESIGNED to be that way.
 

eastfreo75

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We're a bulls**t economy really. A farm on top of a mine.



I've got nothing against any foreign battler trying to make a better fist of things for themselves, but the battlers here ARE screwed over by the process, and it's DESIGNED to be that way.
Our fault was not making much out of the mining boom. Yes, John Howard didn’t invest in infrastructure. Unlike, Sweden and Norway did.

As for the battlers, sorry but their always be losers in an economy regardless of what system.

The smart and well connected will always do better than people from a low economy back ground.

That’s why it’s important to provide public housing and a decent income for them to live off.
 

Snake_Baker

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Our fault was not making much out of the mining boom. Yes, John Howard didn’t invest in infrastructure. Unlike, Sweden and Norway did.

As for the battlers, sorry but their always be losers in an economy regardless of what system.

The smart and well connected will always do better than people from a low economy back ground.

This is why the poor shouldn't give two fu**s about the law.

That’s why it’s important to provide public housing and a decent income for them to live off.

Yeah..........well.
 

eastfreo75

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This is why the poor shouldn't give two fu**s about the law.




Yeah..........well.
Why would you respect a system that s**ts on.

The thing I hate is the self righteous well connected individuals telling the poor to just shut up and work hard.

Then they tell the whole world that the only reason for their is because of hard work.

They pay their accountants to get out of paying tax and then have the gore to say that the unemployed sucked the system.
 
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