Opinion Ask Janus!

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Pappagallo said:
Stop trying to take the moral high ground on this because there isn’t one by design.
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You’re right but the fact remains that people who pushed the man off the bridge had a high correlation to being psychopathic. It is what it is.

If murdering you was going to save five people that would otherwise die, I wouldn’t do it.
 

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Janus said:
You’re right but the fact remains that people who pushed the man off the bridge had a high correlation to being psychopathic. It is what it is.

If murdering you was going to save five people that would otherwise die, I wouldn’t do it.
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It’s an ethical dilemma with two choices that both have terrible outcomes. It’s easy to see how people could choose either way so it would prove to be a very poor indicator of psychopathy considering that genuine psychopaths only account for about 2-3% of the population.

But thanks for not killing me I guess haha.
 
Pappagallo said:
I didn’t say you have a moral obligation to save the five over the one, that’s up to the individual to decide. That’s the dilemma! But if you did you’re not necessarily a psychopath and many would argue that you in fact did “the right thing” all things considered.

In your scenario the five people are already sick and likely to die of natural causes, whereas the five people on the track are presumably healthy and would be suffering an untimely death. That’s a pretty important ethical variable yeah?
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Bzzzzzzzt, wrong. The psychopath would slaughter hundreds of people with the excuse that (s)he was only trying to get a tissue match.
 
I'd argue that a truly 100% altruistic person would push the one guy to his death to save the five, as they'd be prepared to bear the guilt for and consequences of their actions for the sake of the greater good.
 
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Only a 1 on the test. Would have scored more in my early 20’s before getting older and less self absorbed. With the score going down again on having kids and then down a last time with the usual s**t sandwiches everyone gets at some point. I don’t think too much how I’d hazard for most people the test results would go down at 20,30 and then 40.
 
Janus said:
So your value on life is predicated on whether someone is sick or not? If they get the organs, they will be healthy.

The right thing is subjective. But in one scenario, you murder someone to save five others.

In the other, you watch five people die, sure. But you don’t murder them. People die all the time, you know. Those five people could have cancer, or choke on a hotdog, or drown...all in the space of the next week.

The reason why you think it’s okay to murder someone to save five others is the very reason why the world is the way it is today. A warped sense of morality.

In a moral world, the fat man would jump in front of the tram and there wouldn’t be a dilemma at all.
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If only morality were as black and white as you put it in these scenarios. In both scenarios you murder someone you save five, or you don't and five die.

Although in the organ scenario is much more complicated as organ transplantation isn't as simple as you put in the above scenario, therefore that complicates the issue quite a bit.

In a moral world, perhaps we would look at what value the fat guy has compared to the the other 5 people.

Based on the team scenario, would you kill Hitler if you had the chance, or let the German people take responsibility for him?

As you say, the right thing is subjective and so morality will never be black and white.
 
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JimmyBeerCans said:
A dedicated thread huh just what an out of control ego needs.
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Thread exists because a group of w***ers on this forum are obsessed with Janus and what he posts.
His ego is no more out of control then some of the w***ers on this forum who think only their opinion should be heard. Janus isn't one of those people.
We all know who they are, it's just that some people on this forum sit there waiting for them to post or take the lead so they can lick their asses clean.
 

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Where does ya mate that beats people senseless in country pubs land in the psychopath discussion Janus ? he's my hero
 
Janus said:
Those questions are exactly the questions a psychologist would ask to determine psychotic behaviour. It’s called the Hare Psychopathy Checklist. A psychopath doesn’t care about right or wrong and so wouldn’t think about lying on the test because there’s no reason to do so.

But if you want a real test, here’s one:

You are standing on a bridge over a tram track. In the distance, you see a tram that has lost control and is going too fast for the bend just beyond the bridge...which would result in the 5 people on board being killed.

The only way to save them is to stop the tram by placing something with enough mass to activate the emergency collision system. You aren’t heavy enough...but you are standing next to a large man who is leaning over the rail of the bridge watching the horror unfold.

Do you push the man onto the tracks, killing him...or do you let 5 people die?
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Not my decision to make. Only the other man could act on it. The five deaths wouldn't be on me. If I push him, one death would.
 
Where are ya J man?
 
Now I read this thread and I could have done without it but I did the tests. I did it twice. First time I did it I was thinking about my interactions with those people at my workplace that deserve my utmost best efforts when actioning my job. I scored a 3. Then I did it again by thinking about my interactions with those at my workplace that are deceitful backstabbing lying bullies, and I scored a 12. Still under the complete psychopathic tendencies but 4 times greater towards it.

The post about saving one Nazi if it meant 20 were killed struck some kind of relevance to the above I reckon. Yep... absolutely I would ... but then I'd go hunting after that last Nazi.
 
Is Janus actually a mouthpiece for the club? Or is Janus Kane Cornes?

Disappeared completely as we started our end of season collapse. We steady the ship with a couple cheap wins and suddenly Janus comes out of the woodwork, bragging again as usual about how we're going to take the comp by storm and Hinkley is doing great. Then Janus is online posting half hour before the North game, but disappeared as soon as the slaughter started???

I guess if the Crows beat the Dogs and we somehow sneak into the 8, Janus will be up and about again.
 
Coobk001 said:
Is Janus actually a mouthpiece for the club? Or is Janus Kane Cornes?

Disappeared completely as we started our end of season collapse. We steady the ship with a couple cheap wins and suddenly Janus comes out of the woodwork, bragging again as usual about how we're going to take the comp by storm and Hinkley is doing great. Then Janus is online posting half hour before the North game, but disappeared as soon as the slaughter started???

I guess if the Crows beat the Dogs and we somehow sneak into the 8, Janus will be up and about again.
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True believer syndrome I think he just plummets into the mire after every false dawn.
 
Magus said:
Where are ya J man?
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Working on my game...it’s not gonna make itself :p

Right now I’m putting in the subway system because it has a real time timetable and making up pretend news reports and advertisements that play audio when you activate them. Stuff like peptide enhanced energy drinks, AI pets that are already house trained etc.

You know, the stuff that builds world depth.

The fun bit is going to be making the morality system that fluctuates between virtue and vice - humility vs pride, love vs lust, peace vs wrath etc - depending on your actions in the game. Unlike other games, it will be your previous actions that influence what dialogue options you get, not some bullshit perk. A criminal isn’t going to relate to a goody two shoes at all in reality, so why would they relate to them in a fantasy world? Why would they even ask someone like that to do a job for them?

But if the goody two shoes proved they weren’t so clean cut by giving the criminal a stolen item that the player just happened to know the criminal was looking for after overhearing a conversation between two underlings...then things would be different.

* being pushed into always being the hero - in this game, you can be the hero who turns into the villain if you feel like betraying everyone for your own ends. Or the anti-hero if you want. But everything has consequences. Cause and effect.

Deus Ex + Fallout New Vegas + Ultima 4/5/6/7 = my game. I’m tired of dumbed down bullshit. Games are too formulaic now. “The player can choose to talk, sneak or fight his way to the objective.” Pffft.

How about a game where you can increase your knowledge of chemistry to mix reagents that creates a knockout gas which you can then combine with a portable fan and place into the fresh air duct of a building and incapacitate everyone? What if in that same building it’s possible to hack into the fire alarm and set it off, and get what you need in the resulting panic? Or what if, due to your previous actions, you’re in a position to already have access to the item because you’ve seduced the manager when you were working in a brothel and she gives it to you when you ask...and you bypass that entire quest?

I call it fractal questing. Instead of 3 ways to complete a quest which all work, there are going to be infinite (not really, but it will seem like it) ways you can try to complete it, and your success or failure is based on your competence. Just like in real life.

I guess it’s an RPG mixed with an old school adventure game, really.
 
JimmyBeerCans said:
True believer syndrome I think he just plummets into the mire after every false dawn.
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I don’t plummet anywhere. I let people calm down after the team serves up rubbish like last week.

Speaking of which - North Melbourne once beat us 140 to 48, and they finished 10th that season. It was 2004. s**t happens, and sometimes it’s just a perfect storm of s**t. It’s how you respond to it that either validates it as being who you are or makes it just an aberration.
 
Janus said:
I don’t plummet anywhere. I let people calm down after the team serves up rubbish like last week.

Speaking of which - North Melbourne once beat us 140 to 48, and they finished 10th that season. It was 2004. s**t happens, and sometimes it’s just a perfect storm of s**t. It’s how you respond to it that either validates it as being who you are or makes it just an aberration.
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The game sounds good I genuinely mean that.
 
Janus said:
Working on my game...it’s not gonna make itself :p

Right now I’m putting in the subway system because it has a real time timetable and making up pretend news reports and advertisements that play audio when you activate them. Stuff like peptide enhanced energy drinks, AI pets that are already house trained etc.

You know, the stuff that builds world depth.

The fun bit is going to be making the morality system that fluctuates between virtue and vice - humility vs pride, love vs lust, peace vs wrath etc - depending on your actions in the game. Unlike other games, it will be your previous actions that influence what dialogue options you get, not some bulls**t perk. A criminal isn’t going to relate to a goody two shoes at all in reality, so why would they relate to them in a fantasy world? Why would they even ask someone like that to do a job for them?

But if the goody two shoes proved they weren’t so clean cut by giving the criminal a stolen item that the player just happened to know the criminal was looking for after overhearing a conversation between two underlings...then things would be different.

fu** being pushed into always being the hero - in this game, you can be the hero who turns into the villain if you feel like betraying everyone for your own ends. Or the anti-hero if you want. But everything has consequences. Cause and effect.

Deus Ex + Fallout New Vegas + Ultima 4/5/6/7 = my game. I’m tired of dumbed down bulls**t. Games are too formulaic now. “The player can choose to talk, sneak or fight his way to the objective.” Pffft.

How about a game where you can increase your knowledge of chemistry to mix reagents that creates a knockout gas which you can then combine with a portable fan and place into the fresh air duct of a building and incapacitate everyone? What if in that same building it’s possible to hack into the fire alarm and set it off, and get what you need in the resulting panic? Or what if, due to your previous actions, you’re in a position to already have access to the item because you’ve seduced the manager when you were working in a brothel and she gives it to you when you ask...and you bypass that entire quest?

I call it fractal questing. Instead of 3 ways to complete a quest which all work, there are going to be infinite (not really, but it will seem like it) ways you can try to complete it, and your success or failure is based on your competence. Just like in real life.

I guess it’s an RPG mixed with an old school adventure game, really.
Click to expand...

In all seriousness, I would play the s**t out of this if you could somehow pull it off.
 
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