Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

[Malifice]

Reckless driving is common with these people and it is just another example of why the suburbs they populate are considered undesirable.

How in the name of all * does ones religion make one a bad driver?

I'd ask you to explain these comments, but I wont because Im terrified I havent taken you out of context, and this is nothing more than an example of casual racism.

 

[JackOutback]

In what sense is that remotely true? The political organisation currently in power in China has killed more people since WW2 than the rest of the world combined.

Stunningly naive comment.

China's crimes have been domestic, America's have been global.

It's not a stretch to say that the current wave of terrorism affecting Western countries can be attributed to the actions of the United States, in helping to create and foster organisations such as ISIS.

 

[fleabitten]

So it wasn't a lie. I don't know what else you are trying to say.

I was being sarcastic? Of course it's not an African problem.

Muhammed didn't just spring up out of nowhere and start a whole new culture. FGM was something that already existed as part of the barbaric culture that he emerged from. He endorsed it and then it spread with the religion all over the globe. What's your explanation for Asians taking up African practices? Just coincidentally at around the same time that Muslim traders were spreading their religion there! Or was it the nasty Africans who convinced Muhammed it was noble in the first place?

Africa is the victim here, Reza, you fraud.

(that last bit is just for Reza Aslan, not you)

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

I was being sarcastic? Of course it's not an African problem.

Muhammed didn't just spring up out of nowhere and start a whole new culture. FGM was something that already existed as part of the barbaric culture that he emerged from. He endorsed it and then it spread with the religion all over the globe. What's your explanation for Asians taking up African practices? Just coincidentally at around the same time that Muslim traders were spreading their religion there! Or was it the nasty Africans who convinced Muhammed it was noble in the first place?

Africa is the victim here, Reza, you fraud.

(that last bit is just for Reza Aslan, not you)

Yeah, I don't know what the references are to Reza. There also is no reason to say it isn't an African problem, given the evidence that has been supplied to you, but perhaps you are pushing a bandwagon and aren't interested in the actual situation?

Also, most people consider the Middle East to not be a part of Africa.

By the way, Maggie has started a FGM thread so you can join the fight against it by following a few of the info threads from there.

 

[coerced]

China's crimes have been domestic, America's have been global.

I guess killing your own doesn't matter.

You're at little graham levels of stupidity.

 

[JackOutback]

I guess killing your own doesn't matter.

You're at little graham levels of stupidity.

Nice strawman you've built there

The statement was about global destruction, nothing you said points to China causing more global damage than the US.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

China's crimes have been domestic, America's have been global.

It's not a stretch to say that the current wave of terrorism affecting Western countries can be attributed to the actions of the United States, in helping to create and foster organisations such as ISIS.

The origins of ISIS exist before the US invasion of Iraq, although the US didn't help the cause by invading it and essentially destabilising the country when the de-baathification of Iraq occurred.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

I don't know how true it is, but several different summaries have put the growth of Wahhabiism as being directly related to the US-Saudi deal for oil. Due to concerns about Saudi royalty looking not-very-Islamic by getting very rich (charity is a big part of Islam) and dealing with the West (where the moral code was seen as much looser), the Saudis made up for this by tieing themselves to the very strict form of Islam that they then helped to fund and promote elsewhere. Hence why Bin Laden, al Qaeda, and so many of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi.

The origins of ISIS exist before the US invasion of Iraq, although the US didn't help the cause by invading it and essentially destabilising the country when the de-baathification of Iraq occurred.

Saddam was anti-Saudi I'm pretty sure so I don't know what the idea is where you say ISIS' origins were pre the invasion?

 

[fleabitten]

Yeah, I don't know what the references are to Reza.

He's the most common source of the "it's not Islam's fault, it's an African thing" line of argument. It's pretty ******* racist, really. If it's an African problem, then why do most Christian Bantu countries have few cases of FGM but Tanzania (Bantu, split between Christian and Muslim) runs at 15%? Could it be that Tanzania was the main Islamic slave trade route in East Africa? With the former Sultanate of Zanzibar sitting off the coast (now a province of Tanzania).

There also is no reason to say it isn't an African problem, given the evidence that has been supplied to you, but perhaps you are pushing a bandwagon and aren't interested in the actual situation?

What evidence? You keep dodging an explanation for how FGM became prevalent in Muslim parts of Asia. There is a very good reason to say it isn't an African problem, it's an Islamic problem: that's the truth. Not all FGM is performed by Muslims, but every place where FGM happens in significant numbers has had a significant Islamic influence on its culture. It is not considered an issue in many African nations, including all of the countries with 0% Muslims.

Also, most people consider the Middle East to not be a part of Africa.

Egypt is considered both. That's where it supposedly originated and then spread to nearby pre-Islamic Arabia. The cultural practices of that region at that time then spread to other regions via Islam.

By the way, Maggie has started a FGM thread so you can join the fight against it by following a few of the info threads from there.

I'll follow it. Not sure there will be anyone to debate with unless we have some pro-FGM posters on big footy.

 

[Gough]

No. Apparently racism only works one way so you're good. Hatred towards white people is just a justified opinion.

A couple of my cousins lost farms to the so war called veterans in Zimbabwe, and while they themselves were ghastly racists, that's what racism against white people looks like. You're just having a whinge.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

He's the most common source of the "it's not Islam's fault, it's an African thing" line of argument. It's pretty ******* racist, really. If it's an African problem, then why do most Christian Bantu countries have few cases of FGM but Tanzania (Bantu, split between Christian and Muslim) runs at 15%? Could it be that Tanzania was the main Islamic slave trade route in East Africa? With the former Sultanate of Zanzibar sitting off the coast (now a province of Tanzania).

Ahhh, Africa is not a uniform continent. There are all sorts of different people. But you claimed it was a "lie" that FGM was more an African thing than an Islamic thing, and have consistently tried to suggest that somehow it is an Islamic thing, despite it's prevalence in non-Islamic African communities and before Islam was even a thing. So trying to say "it isn't an African problem, it's an Islamic problem: that's the truth" is not the truth at all. The Sande do it and have no religious links to Islam at all. In Nigeria, FGM is prevalent in 31% of Catholics, 27% of Protestant and 7% of Muslim women. And of course it is outlawed in plenty of Islamic countries. Only someone set on pushing a bandwagon, rather than someone interested in how life actually is would suggest that it is just an Islamic problem. Anyone else would acknowledge the African origins, while still being perfectly capable to analyse the influence in other cultures too.

I'll follow it. Not sure there will be anyone to debate with unless we have some pro-FGM posters on big footy.

You don't have to "debate" something to discuss it. Unsurprisingly you're more likely to get action (dare I say 'progress'?) if most people agree on it.

 

[Lakeside Swan]

A couple of my cousins lost farms to the so war called veterans in Zimbabwe, and while they themselves were ghastly racists, that's what racism against white people looks like. You're just having a whinge.

Well if it's okay to be racist against white people then being racist towards black people must be okay too. You just proved my point. Thank you.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Well if it's okay to be racist against white people then being racist towards black people must be okay too. You just proved my point. Thank you.

That you need permission or an excuse to be a racist?....At least you're honest; you don't seem able to hide your biases, unlike some posters in here.

 

[Maggie5]

I'll follow it. Not sure there will be anyone to debate with unless we have some pro-FGM posters on big footy.

But you can debate its origins and countries where it is still practiced also what is being done to outlaw the barbaric and humiliating practice.
That surely is your main concern isn't it?

 

[fleabitten]

Ahhh, Africa is not a uniform continent. There are all sorts of different people.

No kidding. Which African cultural group do you think is responsible for the worldwide prevalence of FGM?

But you claimed it was a "lie" that FGM was more an African thing than an Islamic thing, and have consistently tried to suggest that somehow it is an Islamic thing, despite it's prevalence in non-Islamic African communities and before Islam was even a thing.

Just because it existed before Islam, that doesn't mean Islam isn't responsible for its prevalence today. It was a barbaric practice carried out in the middle east and north east africa at the time of Mohammed. Mohammed endorsed the practice and then it spread all over the world.

No African country that has a Muslim population of 0% has a FGM problem. Can we say the same of all the Muslim countries that have an African population of 0%? How did Africans spread their genital rituals to Mindanao?

So trying to say "it isn't an African problem, it's an Islamic problem: that's the truth" is not the truth at all. The Sande do it and have no religious links to Islam at all. In Nigeria, FGM is prevalent in 31% of Catholics, 27% of Protestant and 7% of Muslim women.

Many of the Sande are Muslims and who knows why those women are mutilating each other. Nigeria is a majority Muslim country that has had an Islamic influence for well over a thousand years.

And of course it is outlawed in plenty of Islamic countries.

That's true. But, of the African nations with a FGM prevalence rate over 5%, only five haven't outlawed it. They all have massive rates (over 50%, some approaching 100%) and they are all countries with clear Islamic majorities.

Only someone set on pushing a bandwagon, rather than someone interested in how life actually is would suggest that it is just an Islamic problem. Anyone else would acknowledge the African origins, while still being perfectly capable to analyse the influence in other cultures too.

I think the evidence clearly points to Islam as the common denominator everywhere that FGM is a significant problem. This includes places far from Africa that would have no reason to adopt African customs. Places where most people are Muslims. Passing the buck to Africa and pretending it's an African problem that somehow leapt into Islamic Asia....and you think I'm set on pushing a bandwagon?

You don't have to "debate" something to discuss it. Unsurprisingly you're more likely to get action (dare I say 'progress'?) if most people agree on it.

Well if you put it that way. I didn't know agreeing with people on big footy could be such a powerful tool for change.

 

[fleabitten]

But you can debate its origins and countries where it is still practiced also what is being done to outlaw the barbaric and humiliating practice.
That surely is your main concern isn't it?

None of it is my main concern. Right now I'm interested in a discussion about whether FGM is an Islamic problem or an African problem. In 5 minutes, I'll be cleaning my teeth and preparing to go out. I have an interest in any news about the subject and will probably check your thread occasionally, but I'm not a passionate anti-FGM activist. Don't see why I should be expected to be, just so my big footy comments can meet your approval.

 

[Maggie5]

None of it is my main concern. Right now I'm interested in a discussion about whether FGM is an Islamic problem or an African problem. In 5 minutes, I'll be cleaning my teeth and preparing to go out. I have an interest in any news about the subject and will probably check your thread occasionally, but I'm not a passionate anti-FGM activist. Don't see why I should be expected to be, just so my big footy comments can meet your approval.

Don't need your approval, just don't accept your 'facts'.
But interesting to see your biggest concern is whether it is Islam or African and not the females.

 

[awaremind]

Well how about muslim women not being able to go out on their own in some places or wearing such demeaning clothes? Or being allowed to be beaten in some situations ? They may have stockholm syndrome and deny it but they really do get treated as second class by our standards. Hell they get punished for being raped, by law in some places. Defend that.

If they come here and leave that behind, all good but why bring that here? is that what we want? You do get dirty looks sometimes if you or your wife dress in a certain way from muslims here, you can see it angers them.

 

[Thats Wright]

Well how about muslim women not being able to go out on their own in some places or wearing such demeaning clothes? Or being allowed to be beaten in some situations ? They may have stockholm syndrome and deny it but they really do get treated as second class by our standards. Hell they get punished for being raped, by law in some places. Defend that.

If they come here and leave that behind, all good but why bring that here? is that what we want? You do get dirty looks sometimes if you or your wife dress in a certain way from muslims here, you can see it angers them.

It's a sad situation when you can't tell whether the women are victims, stupid or both. If only that cretin warlord had the decency to allow escape from this cult.

 

[fleabitten]

Don't need your approval, just don't accept your 'facts'.
But interesting to see your biggest concern is whether it is Islam or African and not the females.

Classic Maggie5! Well done!

 

[Maggie5]

Classic Maggie5! Well done!

Thanks!

 

[fleabitten]

One more set of 'facts'.

Of the African countries with at least a 10% Muslim population, 30/35 have FGM present.
Of the African countries with a Muslim population under 10%, only 6/18 have FGM present.
Of the African countries with a Muslim population of 0%, 0/7 have FGM present.

If FGM was completely stamped out in Africa, it would still be widely practiced in the Middle East and Asia. If it was completely stamped out in the Islamic world, there would only be a few pockets of people here and there that still practiced it.

Reza Aslan is lying through his teeth when he says it's an African problem and I find it pretty disgusting that people would prefer to pass the blame for that barbaric practice onto (an unnamed) African culture rather than where it obviously belongs. If a white Christian made a comment like that about Africa (saying a barbaric custom practiced by Christians is "an African problem") , he'd be crucified, but I guess Africans are below Muslims in the pecking order.

 

[Scotland]

I'm sick and tired of 'radicalised/radicalisation'.

There's a bird on Lateline who is a 'de-radicalisation expert'.

* me.

 

[Mofra]

Well how about muslim women not being able to go out on their own in some places or wearing such demeaning clothes? Or being allowed to be beaten in some situations ? They may have stockholm syndrome and deny it but they really do get treated as second class by our standards. Hell they get punished for being raped, by law in some places. Defend that.

Wahabbism, backed by the house of Saud.

Not allowed to criticize them or consider action though because they're cosy with the Bush family / powerful US conservatives so it's all ok

 

[coerced]

Wahabbism, backed by the house of Saud.

Not allowed to criticize them or consider action though because they're cosy with the Bush family / powerful US conservatives so it's all ok

Lol yeah, Wahhabism is the reason women are made to cover up in Iran.