Roast Improving as a supporter base; is improving as a club.

[Beerfish]

It is a well known psychological thing. Try google searching 'in groups' and 'out groups'. In short:

It's a well-known principle in social psychology that people define themselves in terms of social groupings and are quick to denigrate others who don't fit into those groups. Others who share our particular qualities are our "ingroup," and those who do not are our "outgroup."

Wasn't trying to say anything special, just mention that we are all human and we all behave this way. It is exactly the same in real life. We naturally tend to believe those who share our ideas (in group) are more intelligent and thoughful than those who do not share our ideas (out group).. very natural, very ok and not really that surprising.

I don't require a rundown on the psychological phenomena. The point is that my distaste for childish keyboard mashing is not related to the topic of the post. Don't try and kid yourself that it is.

 

[rines]

I don't require a rundown on the psychological phenomena. The point is that my distaste for childish keyboard mashing is not related to the topic of the post. Don't try and kid yourself that it is.

So you are the only human in the world not to fit this phenomena.. well done! Must be the reason why you are so calm and rational all the time.

 

[Doss]

So you are the only human in the world not to fit this phenomena.. well done! Must be the reason why you are so calm and rational all the time.

That's not what he said at all, rines.

 

[Howard Moon]

It is a well known psychological thing. Try google searching 'in groups' and 'out groups'. In short:

It's a well-known principle in social psychology that people define themselves in terms of social groupings and are quick to denigrate others who don't fit into those groups. Others who share our particular qualities are our "ingroup," and those who do not are our "outgroup."

Wasn't trying to say anything special, just mention that we are all human and we all behave this way. It is exactly the same in real life. We naturally tend to believe those who share our ideas (in group) are more intelligent and thoughful than those who do not share our ideas (out group).. very natural, very ok and not really that surprising.

or maybe people are too scared to leave the in group for fear of being alone... therefore pretend to agree with their thoughts and pricipals to feel wanted even though they dont - or worse still dont have the brain capacity to think any different anyway

 

[rines]

or maybe people are too scared to leave the in group for fear of being alone... therefore pretend to agree with their thoughts and pricipals to feel wanted even though they dont - or worse still dont have the brain capacity to think any different anyway

The amount of PM's I get from people who won't share those views in the public forum would agree with your hypothesis.

Especially in male dominated groups, people assume there is one 'alpha' but generally there forms a small subset, the 'alpha group', it is this group that often dictates the generalised 'in group' thought basis.

I'm not sure it is linked to brain capacity, humans have more regard for social interaction and 'belonging' than for perseverance of independent thought. That is to say that we are more suited to group/herd mentality than lone wolf, from an emotional and psychological point of view.

Suffice to say, this is very very interesting stuff when observing social media, public relations, and forums.

 

[Howard Moon]

this is a topic i could discuss all day long, even though it has travelled wildy off target for what the thread is about.

suffice to say society and media (or what the media tells society to think) works very hard to paint the free thinker as a crackpot... so it takes a very brave person who is confident in themselves and who know who they are to be one.

im sure it works the same in here. Wouldnt be easy to go against the grain.. unless you are not looking for vindication from the group... but why else would you post in a forum?

 

[yodellinhank]

I'm going to wait for more people to respond before I decide whether or not to agree with that rines

 

[Doss]

While your free lesson on the intricacies of human psychology is interesting, ultimately it's of limited relevance here rines.

I'll say this once and for all, and this is for everyone's consumption. No one is not allowed to express their opinion, and I'm utterly sick of the implication that that is the case. If you share your opinion and the majority happen to disagree with it, you will get taken to task for it by more than one person. That in itself is not a personal attack, and the manner in which some spit the dummy when their opinion is challenged is very unhelpful to good discussion. It's getting to the point where we may consider carding transgressors.

I'll say another thing. This obsession with being vindicated is so useless. Is self worth and credibility really that closely tied to a few things posted on an Internet forum that people must constantly be reminded by it, ad nauseam, for year upon year afterwards?

Who cares if you were proven right on something years ago? It's very easy to cherry pick stuff we get right in hindsight. It's also very easy to cherry pick stuff we got wrong in hindsight. The point is, we're all right and wrong at some point, and frankly, it matters not a jot.

 

[rines]

this is a topic i could discuss all day long, even though it has travelled wildy off target for what the thread is about.

suffice to say society and media (or what the media tells society to think) works very hard to paint the free thinker as a crackpot... so it takes a very brave person who is confident in themselves and who know who they are to be one.

im sure it works the same in here. Wouldnt be easy to go against the grain.. unless you are not looking for vindication from the group... but why else would you post in a forum?

People who want to be in the 'in group' post in forums to feel part of a group. They represent around 80-85% of forum users from the very limited studies that have been conducted. Interestingly, in most real life examples the 'in group/out group' dichotomy is usually split at around 80/20 so again we see a 'natural' occurrence transferring to the digital space. One could therefore assume that some innate human behaviour is so deeply ingrained that it will transcend technological advances.

The 'Free thinker' or those less opposed to being in the out group, will usually post for two reasons, firstly that they wish to change the status quo (agitators) or that they are driven by the pursuit of knowledge and ideals (creators). Therefore they post to create constructive debate and to analyse their own opinion.
You can usually tell the 'free thinkers' in a forum space, they will often have polarising opinions, be seen as a 'wild cat' and, most commonly, be referred to as emotional, irrational, uneducated, ill informed and most responses will be directed at their personal attributes rather than their point of view. This is repeated time and time again across both digital and traditional media.

They still haven't adequately been able to explain why the presence of the 'out group' is so disharmonious to the members of the 'in group' which is why studies into racism, sexism etc still continue. Essentially to ask the question, why must we seek conformity and why does the presence of non-conformity actually agitate the group so actively?

The adage 'live and let live' is so inaccurate from a psychological point of view, as very few are actually able to behave this way consistently.

 

[Jab]

Are you ever wrong rines? Do you ever feel that you are the one to blame or could improve? It seems like you can do as you please and blame any comments that disagree with you on sexism or bullying. Another reasoning you use is that you are essentially more intelligent than everyone else.

If you removed the chip on your shoulder and started to respect people you may find that gesture is returned.

 

[Jab]

Just to add to my post rines, I don't have an issue with your opinions, I agree with about half of them. My issue is with your attitude and your posting, not your opinions, you're entitled to think how you like.

 

[rines]

Are you ever wrong rines? Do you ever feel that you are the one to blame or could improve? It seems like you can do as you please and blame any comments that disagree with you on sexism or bullying. Another reasoning you use is that you are essentially more intelligent than everyone else.

If you removed the chip on your shoulder and started to respect people you may find that gesture is returned.

I wrong regularly. I can always improve and do try to.

Why are you yet again bringing up sexism? When did I blame sexism? Did I miss something?

Statistically I am likely to be more intelligent than some, in some areas of quotient intelligence, and less intelligent in others. I am very comfortable with my level of intelligence and with that of those around me.

Name the posters that I don't respect? Name the posters that I don't 'like' if I believe they have stated something accurate, factual or just interesting?

I don't think there would be many posters on here that haven't received a like FROM me.. so I'm not sure how else I can demonstrate respect to the level you deem satisfactory.

 

[Jab]

I wrong regularly. I can always improve and do try to.

Why are you yet again bringing up sexism? When did I blame sexism? Did I miss something?

Statistically I am likely to be more intelligent than some, in some areas of quotient intelligence, and less intelligent in others. I am very comfortable with my level of intelligence and with that of those around me.

Name the posters that I don't respect? Name the posters that I don't 'like' if I believe they have stated something accurate, factual or just interesting?

I don't think there would be many posters on here that haven't received a like FROM me.. so I'm not sure how else I can demonstrate respect to the level you deem satisfactory.

You mentioned the group mentality from male dominated who try to be alpha. Gender has nothing to do with it, groups of women can do the same thing. Anyone who needs to see the gender of a person before deciding if it is valid is a moron.

I wouldn't know what posts you've liked, I don't keep account. People like posts for different reasons and that's their choice. You did educate me on the cause and effect of a mod liking certain posts in a PM, which I have thanked you for, it wasn't something that I had considered too much previously.

 

[rines]

You mentioned the group mentality from male dominated who try to be alpha. Gender has nothing to do with it, groups of women can do the same thing. Anyone who needs to see the gender of a person before deciding if it is valid is a moron.

I wouldn't know what posts you've liked, I don't keep account. People like posts for different reasons and that's their choice. You did educate me on the cause and effect of a mod liking certain posts in a PM, which I have thanked you for, it wasn't something that I had considered too much previously.

Sorry, but gender does effect group behaviour. I am more than happy to tell you how groups of women behave differently (no better OR worse), but as this space (BigFooty) is predominately male, it makes more sense to discuss that group dynamic doesn't it?

What would have been the point of me discussing how women behave on group forums here? If you want to head over to some of the other forums I frequent, which are very much female dominated, then it would be relevant.

I really wasn't trying to bring sexism up in this thread.

 

[Yoda_]

Can we get this thread back to what it was intended for?

To back our coaching staff to develop our players to enable the supporters to enjoy a club success later on.

Seriously guys, we are ONE club!!

 

[Jab]

Sorry, but gender does effect group behaviour. I am more than happy to tell you how groups of women behave differently (no better OR worse), but as this space (BigFooty) is predominately male, it makes more sense to discuss that group dynamic doesn't it?

What would have been the point of me discussing how women behave on group forums here? If you want to head over to some of the other forums I frequent, which are very much female dominated, then it would be relevant.

I really wasn't trying to bring sexism up in this thread.

I have a solid background is psychology, but thank you for the offer. I apologise if I took you the wrong way and your intention was not about sexism, I do recall you mentioning it in the past. Let's move on then, shall we.

 

[DrMike]

I hope you don't mind me popping in, I just found this discussion similar to ones we've been having lately on our board (here and here) and hope I could share some of the thoughts that were raised.

The outcome we came to was BigFooty is a place to share and contribute, but we all have different opinions and behaviours, so the way we express ourselves might not be appropriate when talking to someone. It's not that it's wrong, but at the end of the day we're all here to support the same team (Essendon in your case obviously), so we need to respect everyone's right to be a part of the board. While one person might post rather aggressively, maybe certain threads are not appropriate for that type of conversation. As a poster we all need to take responsibility for how we want to post and where we make those posts. We are not here to drive our agenda's across every thread, quality conversation does not come from that and all it does is frustrate people and limit their ability to voice their opinion where it can be heard. But people still need a safe place to vent when things go wrong. With the things that have happened at Essendon over the last year and a half I know that your mod team has definitely provided you with that safe place.

While I don't know the specifics of what's happening on your board, the types of people and emotions are the same, so I would offer this:

Everyone deserves the right to share their opinion without being abused for it. If you disagree with someone, justify why or ignore them but remember that they are under no obligation to share the same view as you do. Sometimes, leaving the conversation is the most appropriate action, save yourself the time.

We all have to fit in the same place, so make room for other people as well.

 

[rines]

I have a solid background is psychology, but thank you for the offer. I apologise if I took you the wrong way and your intention was not about sexism, I do recall you mentioning it in the past. Let's move on then, shall we.

Happy to move on. Thank you.

*The only relevance it would have in this space, from the psychological topic being talked about, is that there *may* be a tendency in a male dominated space to put all females in the 'out group' by default. However I don't believe that to be the dominant predominate filter for ingroup/outgroup separation on this forum. It does occur but not to a point of distraction from the main delineation.

 

[Bombermania]

I don't see anything wrong with getting frustrated at seeing us take possession with numbers to stream forward and there is nothing so they need to hand ball it to one another and maybe go backwards or sideways.

I see nothing wrong with seeing two big first quarters followed by two quarters of rubbish even though in both weeks the Pies and the Saints were very good with how they responded.

We seem to be missing the killer instinct and a forward line even though we have one of the games most promising forwards in the comp.

We are only wrong if we are a middle of the road side which i don't believe we are.

 

[Doss]

DrMike summed it up very well above.

 

[Bomberblitzer]

When did I walk into a year 11 psychology class?

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Without wanting to get into the debate.

Phenomenon - singular
Phenomena - plural

Thank you.

 

[Doss]

Without wanting to get into the debate.

Phenomenon - singular
Phenomena - plural

Thank you.

And that, folks, is what the important issue really is.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Tackling the big issues here.

 

[Howard Moon]

Tackling the big issues here.

you can tackle but can you hit a target?