Strategy Incoming High Performance Manager

[jmac70]

Had a guess it was going to be Dugina, but happy with White........... so long as he doesn't micro manage and that takes away from other training like skills, strategy etc. However even that would be better than Davoren "one size fits all" training loads

Are you saying that under Davoren every player has the same training program?

 

[Carringbush2010]

there is correlation between stamina/strength and the ability to execute skills (and I exclude those with flawed techniques like Cloke and Sinclair from this discussion).

Yep, it would be folly to just pardon the pun black & white the view and say strength and conditioning have no part in skills results - the lines cross over and to varying degrees has a tangible effect on disposal execution

 

[Scodog10]

I think you are over reacting a bit.

It really does depend on the standard you accept. I want the best for Collingwood and Davoren was well below that hence my strong reaction to our poor results in the area he oversaw for 4 years.

On the other hand you seem happy to defend him against mine and other accusations of mediocrity on the back of no evidence to support that view other than a thought process of “well he can’t have been that bad just because you say so”...

Had a guess it was going to be Dugina, but happy with White........... so long as he doesn't micro manage and that takes away from other training like skills, strategy etc. However even that would be better than Davoren "one size fits all" training loads

Ding ding ding.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Are you saying that under Davoren every player has the same training program?

Let me rephrase Jmac, seems externally at least that Davs had an idea on training loads suited to endurance and had a less than ideal "personal" element (correct me if I'm wrong). So not so much "every player the same loads" but didn't vary loads and types to players of different developments i;e Kirby's ideal vs someone like a Moore - 2 totally different athletic types. I know that's not possible for every bloke on the list but would be ideal for areas that need working on like Kirby

 

[Carringbush2010]

It really does depend on the standard you accept. I want the best for Collingwood and Davoren was well below that hence my strong reaction to our poor results in the area he oversaw for 4 years.

On the other hand you seem happy to defend him against mine and other accusations of mediocrity on the back of no evidence to support that view other than a thought process of “well he can’t have been that bad just because you say so”...



Ding ding ding.

We don't know for sure (Mazzarjo would you have any mail?) but it seems externally the loads were somewhat "uniform"

 

[jmac70]

Let me rephrase Jmac, seems externally at least that Davs had an idea on training loads suited to endurance and had a less than ideal "personal" element (correct me if I'm wrong). So not so much "every player the same loads" but didn't vary loads and types to players of different developments i;e Kirby's ideal vs someone like a Moore - 2 totally different athletic types. I know that's not possible for every bloke on the list but would be ideal for areas that need working on like Kirby

I find that hard to believe. If it is true then I am truly shocked.

 

[jmac70]

It really does depend on the standard you accept. I want the best for Collingwood and Davoren was well below that hence my strong reaction to our poor results in the area he oversaw for 4 years.

On the other hand you seem happy to defend him against mine and other accusations of mediocrity on the back of no evidence to support that view other than a thought process of “well he can’t have been that bad just because you say so”...



Ding ding ding.

You misinterpreted my posts. I asked you for evidence, and you have not provided anything concrete to prove incompetence. My position the whole time is that it’s unfair to trash the bloke given none of know the facts.

 

[sr36]

We don't know for sure (Mazzarjo would you have any mail?) but it seems externally the loads were somewhat "uniform"

Training reports always made it sound like there was differentiation, my issue is that it sounds like no effort at all was put into planning differentiated activities. It sounded like it was just run laps or do three quarter pace run through. No effort to make rehab or endurance building work stimulating or enjoyable.

 

[Kirby]

I need to put this delicately........I have a mate who has recently been on one of our lists who has a brother on another club's list (a very successful club) and they obviously compare notes. My mate was very surprised about the way Collingwood trained as opposed to what his brother told him about the other club's program and it was entirely due to the lack of Individual programs and groupings. Basically everyone trained the same at Collingwood (more or less).

He told me this about 2 years ago.

 

[TKiL]

I need to put this delicately........I have a mate who has recently been on one of our lists who has a brother on another club's list (a very successful club) and they obviously compare notes. My mate was very surprised about the way Collingwood trained as opposed to what his brother told him about the other club's program and it was entirely due to the lack of Individual programs and groupings. Basically everyone trained the same at Collingwood (more or less). He told me this about 2 years ago.

If all that is true....as far as training is concerned, isn't that ultimately the call of the head coach after considering input from line coaches, fitness dept, high performance staff etc?

 

[Kirby]

If all that is true....as far as training is concerned, isn't that ultimately the call of the head coach after considering input from line coaches, fitness dept, high performance staff etc?

I'm talking more about loads, not different drills.

I guess the coach would have some say for sure but I also assume he is highly reliant on the plans put in place by the High Performance Manager as he's supposed to be the expert on fitness and one assumes sold a program to the club and coach.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I find that hard to believe. If it is true then I am truly shocked.

If it's true to the letter which I doubt that would explain some of injury issues, but there is a perception on here and other footy sites that Davs was more "uniform" than ideal

 

[Carringbush2010]

I need to put this delicately........I have a mate who has recently been on one of our lists who has a brother on another club's list (a very successful club) and they obviously compare notes. My mate was very surprised about the way Collingwood trained as opposed to what his brother told him about the other club's program and it was entirely due to the lack of Individual programs and groupings. Basically everyone trained the same at Collingwood (more or less).

He told me this about 2 years ago.

This would not be surprising and seems to be the perception among supporters and members

 

[barrackers]

No need to guess this is what White had to say on training groups

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2017-11-08/outlining-our-preseason-program

“Rather than having two running groups which is split up into talls and smalls, we’ll aim to have something like eight different running groups, in which we will drill down very individually what is required,” White said.

“An inside mid is so much different to a wing, which is so much different again to a key forward or key back. For that reason, we won’t train them in the same way.

“We’re trying to create competition amongst the players who are going for similar spots in similar divisions, rather than having us barking orders and using time trials to bring the best out of them.

“They’ll drive each to really high standards.”

 

[Hardas]

I need to put this delicately........I have a mate who has recently been on one of our lists who has a brother on another club's list (a very successful club) and they obviously compare notes. My mate was very surprised about the way Collingwood trained as opposed to what his brother told him about the other club's program and it was entirely due to the lack of Individual programs and groupings. Basically everyone trained the same at Collingwood (more or less).

He told me this about 2 years ago.

This bloke now playing well at WAFL-level?

 

[Hardas]

No need to guess this is what White had to say on training groups

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2017-11-08/outlining-our-preseason-program

Read that and thought, 'Surely every club's doing that already'!.

 

[Kirby]

This bloke now playing well at WAFL-level?

Nope. Not him but I don't want to post his name.

 

[Hardas]

Nope. Not him but I don't want to post his name.

Fair enough, mate.
Doesn't matter too much - it's pretty obvious we'll be playing catch up in several important areas now.
Very disappointing.

 

[barrackers]

Nope. Not him but I don't want to post his name.

My guess would be on one of the three recent VFL listers with brothers playing AFL. There's enough options to keep people confused.

Read that and thought, 'Surely every club's doing that already'!.

Yeah, it's hardly rocket science.

 

[sr36]

Read that and thought, 'Surely every club's doing that already'!.

I read it and thought that they still don't get it. It sounds like they're grouping them by where they want them to be for their role, rather than grouping them by where they are physically at the moment.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I read it and thought that they still don't get it. It sounds like they're grouping them by where they want them to be for their role, rather than grouping them by where they are physically at the moment.

Maybe there are sub groups of those groups?

 

[jmac70]

Maybe there are sub groups of those groups?

What happens to the sub groups of the sub groups?

 

[Obese Arachnid]

What happens to the sub groups of the sub groups?

Don't know, you'll have to talk to the sub committee.

 

[Hardas]

What happens to the sub groups of the sub groups?

Split into microgroups.

 

[Hardas]

I read it and thought that they still don't get it. It sounds like they're grouping them by where they want them to be for their role, rather than grouping them by where they are physically at the moment.

You'd think that both are happening, or at least you'd hope so.