India comes full circle - acknowledges umpires are human after all

beatnik

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Thread starter #1
absolute cricketing bastardry:

""I still put my money on the umpires because they have been doing the job [for a long time]...This is a game in which people commit mistakes. If the bowler doesn't commit a mistake the batsman can't get runs. If the batsman doesn't commit a mistake the bowler doesn't get a wicket. So we'll make umpires too a part of it.

"What is important is that if a mistake is committed by the umpire, it should not affect him...If as an umpire you give something out when it's not-out, you don't need to go into your shell thinking you have made a wrong decision. If the next ball the umpire feels it is out, he should boldly give the decision.

"We are happy to go that way because it is a difficult job for the umpires. We come back to our dressing-room after bowling and only two batsmen go out to bat, but these are the people who stand there for five days. Cricket has been in good shape for long enough with two people in charge...We need to back their decisions. If mistakes are not committed intentionally, I am perfectly fine with it."

I suspect Steve Bucknor would have liked one of the Indian cricket team to publicly back him in the same way about 4 years ago
 

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The Passenger

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#2
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ausvind/content/current/story/329471.html

The under-fire umpire Steve Bucknor will not be replaced for the third Test between Australia and India in Perth, despite an official protest from the Indian board following his controversial performance in Sydney.

The Indian board demanded that Bucknor be stood down for the third Test, which gets underway on January 16, after a string of errors contributed to India's thrilling last-ditch defeat in Sydney.
 

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#3
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

Even if we forget the way they carried on four years ago what about recently with umpire harper?

"If the correct decisions were made the game would have finished much earlier and I would have been in the hotel by now."

Whose words are these?

Mr lets respect the umps even if they make mistakes dhoni, harper wasn't a great ump but the indians basically hounded him until he pulled out of his farewell test,. strange behavior for a team that apparently has the utmost respects for on field umps....
 

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#4
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

Unfortunately I'm now quite accustomed to hypocrisy in cricket/ers.
 

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#5
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

absolute cricketing bastardry:
Unfortunately I'm now quite accustomed to hypocrisy in cricket/ers.
Interesting points gentleman. Let me just add a few more examples from recent history.

Ponting being in favour of the DRS but then chucking a hissy fit when the decision doesn't go there way (and getting away with it with a slap on the wrist)
[youtube]YfGzS9JVFn8[/youtube]

Steve Waugh (and Ponting) claiming that batsman should take the fielders word for catches and then claiming blatantly obvious bumped balls
eg:
[YOUTUBE]Hu5Th1so2D0[/YOUTUBE]

Gilchrist supposedly being the epitome of sportsmanship due to one instance where he walked (Lara had been doing it for many years without any fanfare) but having no problems going up like there's no tomorrow for catches that didn't come off the bat.
eg Dravid SCG 2008
Sangakkara Hobart 2007
 
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#6
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

The Indians could never do anything right on this board. There'll always be people whinging and criticising them.
 

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#7
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

Even when dhoni makes a well balanced and measured comment about umpiring, he still gets hammered for it here? The hate India brigade here will always find a way to insult them.
 

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#8
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

The comments are fine, its the inconsistency from the Indian cricket team people are discussing here. Such as the Bucknor case pointed out above. The technology doesnt umpire the games, its there to assist them in getting the right outcome. Most umpires are in favour of it and current rules dont allow for over use.
 
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#9
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

The comments are fine, its the inconsistency from the Indian cricket team people are discussing here. Such as the Bucknor case pointed out above. The technology doesnt umpire the games, its there to assist them in getting the right outcome. Most umpires are in favour of it and current rules dont allow for over use.
Dhoni wasn't captain then...
 

frankrizzo

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#10
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

Even when dhoni makes a well balanced and measured comment about umpiring, he still gets hammered for it here? The hate India brigade here will always find a way to insult them.
err it was obviously not what he said but rather that he clearly doesn't believe what he said that is the issue, just a few months ago dhoni had no issue using the media to go off at umpire harper for making mistakes.

He and his team are willing to use every bit of influence they have to bully umpires that they don't get on with so of course when he starts preaching tolerance for umpire mistakes he's going to get criticism.

If an ump gets on the wrong side of this current Indian team his career is in jeopardy when that changes what dhoni said might have some relevance.
 

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#11
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

Interesting points gentleman. Let me just add a few more examples from recent history.

Ponting being in favour of the DRS but then chucking a hissy fit when the decision doesn't go there way (and getting away with it with a slap on the wrist)
[youtube]YfGzS9JVFn8[/youtube]

Steve Waugh (and Ponting) claiming that batsman should take the fielders word for catches and then claiming blatantly obvious bumped balls
eg:
[YOUTUBE]Hu5Th1so2D0[/YOUTUBE]

Gilchrist supposedly being the epitome of sportsmanship due to one instance where he walked (Lara had been doing it for many years without any fanfare) but having no problems going up like there's no tomorrow for catches that didn't come off the bat.
eg Dravid SCG 2008
Sangakkara Hobart 2007
Ah where did the ball hit the ground in the Steve Waugh catch
 

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#12
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

Let's be honest. The Indians don't use DRS because its accurate. For
them it's a numbers game. With the influence of the BCCI and playing most of their matches at home in front of their very noisy and parachoil fans, they figure they will benefit from umpire errors.(most of the time)

When it dosnt happen they will whinge in the media. If decisions continues to go against them they will make not to subtle threats of 'going home' or imply racist undertones.

India have no interest in correct decisions being made, they prefer to 'influence ' umpires to their advantage.
 

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#13
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

Let's be honest. The Indians don't use DRS because its accurate. For
them it's a numbers game. With the influence of the BCCI and playing most of their matches at home in front of their very noisy and parachoil fans, they figure they will benefit from umpire errors.(most of the time)

When it dosnt happen they will whinge in the media. If decisions continues to go against them they will make not to subtle threats of 'going home' or imply racist undertones.

India have no interest in correct decisions being made, they prefer to 'influence ' umpires to their advantage.
Pretty much spot on except for the part about DRS being accurate.
Its still not 100% accurate an it still has problems with balls in a certain area(cant remember where).

Before DRS aussies used to practice their appealing so that when they appealed they looked 100% confident it was out.
To try an convince/trick the umpires.
Since DRS has come in u can see the difference in their appealing anything close to out they no longer appeal with 100% confidence.
India still do this now an use it to their advantage to convince/trick umpires into giving dismissals.
 

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#14
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

Let's be honest. The Indians don't use DRS because its accurate. For
them it's a numbers game. With the influence of the BCCI and playing most of their matches at home in front of their very noisy and parachoil fans, they figure they will benefit from umpire errors.(most of the time)

When it dosnt happen they will whinge in the media. If decisions continues to go against them they will make not to subtle threats of 'going home' or imply racist undertones.

India have no interest in correct decisions being made, they prefer to 'influence ' umpires to their advantage.
Absolutely. It's been a finely-tuned strategy for years and DRS threatens that. I don't think DRS is 100% bulletproof either but it can't be manipulated like an umpire can. Pretty simple as to why they don't like it.
 

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#15
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

Daryl Harper was often a poor umpire, no doubt, but he is absolutely spot on here, especially with this statement:

FORMER Test umpire Daryl Harper says India's ludicrous refusal to use cricket's electronic eye is a calculated move to preserve a successful approach to over-appealing that is neutralised by technology.

Couldn't agree more Daryl, couldn't agree more.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/c...-referral-system/story-fn67w6pa-1226233500230
 

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#16
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

Pretty much spot on except for the part about DRS being accurate.
Its still not 100% accurate an it still has problems with balls in a certain area(cant remember where).

Before DRS aussies used to practice their appealing so that when they appealed they looked 100% confident it was out.
To try an convince/trick the umpires.
Since DRS has come in u can see the difference in their appealing anything close to out they no longer appeal with 100% confidence.
India still do this now an use it to their advantage to convince/trick umpires into giving dismissals.
Actually India under-appealed for a couple of close lbw shouts in the last test. Notably the Hussey one on the last day that was shown to be out on replay.

They usually give their appeals a good crack though but probably not much more than Australia or other countries.
 

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Moderator #17
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

The Indians could never do anything right on this board. There'll always be people whinging and criticising them.
For a long time our team was criticized both here and abroad for what was considered over the top sledging and bad sportsmanship. With some justification it must be said.

Through all of that we never threatened to boycott a series and go home because one of our players was sanctioned and demand that a neutral home be replaced.

Now when a system comes in to help reduce the number of mistakes they refuse to use it. Somehow they're now prepared to accept umpiring errors but won't use drs because it isn't perfect. They make shit up to suit themselves and use their power to get their way with the icc such as the decision to overturn mandatory use of drs

Just as our side shouldn't have been surprised by the criticism that came their way, neither should the indians
 

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#18
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

I don't believe they've 'they've made shit up' to suit themselves, India have been pretty consistent in their reasoning behind not accepting the DRS (they don't believe hawk/eagle eye or hot spot is 100% accurate).

For people who follow test cricket globally, you will remember that famous sri lanka series where DRS was utilized and India felt hard done by a number of decisions (also in their use of it). So until they're satisfied regarding the accuracy of the technology, I feel they'll continue their stance.

A hybrid solution was found recently during the South Africa series I beleive where a 'part' DRS was used, ie all decisions except for LBW could be referred. Not sure if that was explored for this series, but it certainly would've hosed down a lot of the controversy we've seen so far in the first test. And yes as had been said, if anything under appealing had cost India a couple of LBWs against hussey, yadav could have gone up harder although live it looked the ball was perhaps heading down leg
 

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#19
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

Interesting points gentleman. Let me just add a few more examples from recent history.
[Australians being hypocrites too]
I didn't say it was only India. Quite the opposite in fact.

I'll let the 'gentleman' bit slide, it's a reasonable enough assumption on these forums.
 

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#20
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

They sooked about losing in Sydney four years ago, it's as simple as that. Some of us are still annoyed that somehow they came out of it looking like the victims. Of course comments like this are going to be highlighted.
 

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#21
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

its been four years now, surely its time to move on. a lot of people from both teams did things wrong and didn't paint themselves in glory during that game. with a fresh tour now, two new captains, players with a healthy rivalry for each other, and with the teams seemingly having a closer relationship (no doubt helped by playing with each other during the IPL etc), i believe they've all put that past them and ready to continue playing good, hard cricket. it appears they've moved on, so perhaps the rest of us should as well :thumbsu:
 

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#22
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

its been four years now, surely its time to move on. a lot of people from both teams did things wrong and didn't paint themselves in glory during that game. with a fresh tour now, two new captains, players with a healthy rivalry for each other, and with the teams seemingly having a closer relationship (no doubt helped by playing with each other during the IPL etc), i believe they've all put that past them and ready to continue playing good, hard cricket. it appears they've moved on, so perhaps the rest of us should as well :thumbsu:
The Indian cricket team lost me on the last tour, particularly after that idiot Kumble came out after the Sydney test with the rubbish that he did. His accusations against Australia when he had such transgressors as Ganguly, Dhoni and Harbajhan in his side were laughable.

That's a shame, because (the 1980/81 incident involving that other clown Gavaskar aside), I've always enjoyed watching them and their players. The 77/78 series here in Australia was one of the most enjoyable I have ever watched. Magnificent series.

They fully deserve the accusations of hypocrisy levelled at them, even though the events involved are four years apart. Eg, the Symonds non-dismissal caused a lot of trouble four years ago, and yet are now not willing to use the very technology which would avoid such a controversy. Also, they were willing to crucify Bucknor over his mistakes and yet now they think umpires are human, etc, etc.

Seriously, they want their cake and to eat it too. Don't blame people for not believing their stated motives. As I posted earlier, Harper is spot on as to why they don't want to use the DRS.
 

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#23
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

The Indian cricket team lost me on the last tour, particularly after that idiot Kumble came out after the Sydney test with the rubbish that he did. His accusations against Australia when he had such transgressors as Ganguly, Dhoni and Harbajhan in his side were laughable.
Kumble was built up by the press as the gentleman cricketer. He was far, far from it and his behaviour after retiring has only reinforced that.
 

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#24
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

I don't believe they've 'they've made shit up' to suit themselves, India have been pretty consistent in their reasoning behind not accepting the DRS (they don't believe hawk/eagle eye or hot spot is 100% accurate).

For people who follow test cricket globally, you will remember that famous sri lanka series where DRS was utilized and India felt hard done by a number of decisions (also in their use of it). So until they're satisfied regarding the accuracy of the technology, I feel they'll continue their stance.

A hybrid solution was found recently during the South Africa series I beleive where a 'part' DRS was used, ie all decisions except for LBW could be referred. Not sure if that was explored for this series, but it certainly would've hosed down a lot of the controversy we've seen so far in the first test. And yes as had been said, if anything under appealing had cost India a couple of LBWs against hussey, yadav could have gone up harder although live it looked the ball was perhaps heading down leg
India have never recovered from that series.

the "solution" where they didn't use it for LBWs was actually the reverse to what i would use. Hawkeye is very very accurate. Hotspot has been known to have the odd glitch. Until they get snicko (which is actually definitive) hotspot is still only 99% accurate rather than 100%
 

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#25
Re: India comes full circle - acxknowledges umpires are human after all

The Indian cricket team lost me on the last tour, particularly after that idiot Kumble came out after the Sydney test with the rubbish that he did. His accusations against Australia when he had such transgressors as Ganguly, Dhoni and Harbajhan in his side were laughable.

That's a shame, because (the 1980/81 incident involving that other clown Gavaskar aside), I've always enjoyed watching them and their players. The 77/78 series here in Australia was one of the most enjoyable I have ever watched. Magnificent series.

They fully deserve the accusations of hypocrisy levelled at them, even though the events involved are four years apart. Eg, the Symonds non-dismissal caused a lot of trouble four years ago, and yet are now not willing to use the very technology which would avoid such a controversy. Also, they were willing to crucify Bucknor over his mistakes and yet now they think umpires are human, etc, etc.

Seriously, they want their cake and to eat it too. Don't blame people for not believing their stated motives. As I posted earlier, Harper is spot on as to why they don't want to use the DRS.
I'm with you 100% on this one. Have loved watching India since I first saw them play in 1967-68 here in Australia, always an interesting team to watch. Back then they had dominant spinners, a wicketkeeper who opened the batting, an opening bowler who batted at 4, etc. Very unorthodox in comparison with other Test nations. The 1977-78 series between Australia and India is still one of the most enjoyable I've seen.

However, of late something has really changed Indian cricket. I enjoy the fact they are more demonstratively competitive, but they have become a very annoying group of cricketers, creating controversy and deflecting blame upon their opponents. Mates of mine who have played international cricket against India tell stories of in close fielders yabbering away in their foreign tongue as the ball is coming down the pitch, batsmen deliberately backing away to upset a bowler's rhythm, etc.

That infamous series 4 years ago really changed my attitude towards them, and it's going to take some time before I change it back again. Two teams behaved abominally, and one team wore all the blame for it. I'll never forgive the Indians for that.

Oh ... I am mates with Harps, he is currently writing a book, and you can be sure the Indians will be getting a serve. Can't wait to read it.
 
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