India Tour of England 2021

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jle101

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Does england have any young batsmen or bowlers they can bring in? like a potential young superstar? I don't know much about english cricket depth but burns/sibley/hameed leave me with no confidence in their batting stocks.

Unsure about curran, he swings the ball but it's usually from the hand rather than late swing and at his speeds it's pretty ineffective.

Would love england just to blood some dynamic batsmen/bowlers (if they have any)
Can't think of many batsmen, unless they want to give some of their ODI batsmen a run in Tests, but Jofra Archer will certainly strengthen their bowling attack when he returns.
 
May 1, 2016
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I want two things to come out of this test:

- a compilation of every time Kohli has ever gone the review, because it's a pisser watching him fight with himself and Pant trying to stop him.
- RohitSharma to be dropped and for Shami to take his place opening the batting, due to there only being room for one overweight balding batsman in the team.
 

corbies

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Does england have any young batsmen or bowlers they can bring in? like a potential young superstar? I don't know much about english cricket depth but burns/sibley/hameed leave me with no confidence in their batting stocks.

Unsure about curran, he swings the ball but it's usually from the hand rather than late swing and at his speeds it's pretty ineffective.

Would love england just to blood some dynamic batsmen/bowlers (if they have any)
All their upcoming batsman have basically already been tried at Test level. Crawley, Hameed, Lawrence, Pope.
 

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Does england have any young batsmen or bowlers they can bring in? like a potential young superstar? I don't know much about english cricket depth but burns/sibley/hameed leave me with no confidence in their batting stocks.

Unsure about curran, he swings the ball but it's usually from the hand rather than late swing and at his speeds it's pretty ineffective.

Would love england just to blood some dynamic batsmen/bowlers (if they have any)

I thought Vince and Malan looked alright when they were in England's test team a few years ago, they aren't young but could be worth another go.

They also miss Stokes, Woakes and Archer for both their bowling and batting, put them back in their team and they look a much better side.
 

jle101

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Yeah, I too am surprised Dawid Malan didn't kick on much in the red ball format.
 
May 5, 2016
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These are a few of the issues I had with what England were doing last night, bearing in mind I have no problem with bowling short at the tail or quicks getting lippy at batsmen:

1. Bumrah while his batting has improved considerably is a bunny. What’s the best you can achieve from a concerted effort to intimidate him? Lower his average from its career mark of 3 to a series average of 2 and gain bragging rights in that ‘battle?’ This isn’t archer to smith trying to curb a superhuman record to a manageable 35-40 average for a series or something. You’re bowling at Chris Martin’s closest known relative. Who do you brag to if you ‘break’ him as a batsman?

2. your best chance to intimidate someone or gain an edge probably lies with your two best bowlers, not a fast but otherwise breathtakingly ordinary fast bowler. Shannon Gabriel bowls high 140s too - do you think Anyone was scared of him when he was averaging 40 with the ball?

3. once you’ve committed to this brainless tactic wouldn’t you back it up with your field settings? If I’m a tail ender knowing I’m about to be bounced, I look around at 3 men on the boundary and think ‘so these guys actually think I can bat?’ ******* crowd the bat, two under the lid, a leg slip, leg gully. Make him feel like there is pressure on him not just physical danger.

4. once that stupid approach was dispensed with, why would you then not go 3 slips, 2 gullies, short cover, and actually bowl like you would if it was the start of day five and the ACTUAL batsmen were at the crease?

That whole session was just one colossal * up after another but with all the tests root, Anderson, Bairstow, even Buttler and Ali have played, no one thought to do something about it. It’s not like the decision to go after Bumrah was the deal-sealer. They have 5-6 opportunities AFTER that didn’t work to still wrap up the innings and leave an easily reachable target. Root and the bowlers need to wear a lot of that. But I know just from my own pathetic cricketing experience that if I’m seeing that sort of self destruction, I go to the captain or the bowler of my own volition and I ******* say something. The other senior players have to shoulder the blame too.

All in all that, if you were an England fan, was an utterly disgusting day of cricket and they should rightfully be held to account
 
Sep 13, 2020
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Once India showed some decent reargaurd and England continued on with their mind numbing 'tactics' , the batting callopse was predictable.

Englands batting is paper thin bar Root. Stokes back in will stiffen them up but if they roll out a similar lineup down here they will be steamrolled.

Two plodders at the top who look like they can get out at any moment then a host of batsman who are hit/miss and not reliable.
Not much coming through either.
 
May 5, 2016
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Wondering where all the headlines about ‘ugly England’ are from the simpering morality police who occupy the ranks of British cricket writers after the sledging of Bumrah?

I reckon the result will take care of that. They will get bollocked by their press. The difference over the years is that when australia, or India/SA for that matter have been winning and carrying on like spanners, the result often meant that those nations’ home media would paper over the carry on. Even here in Australia I think the media criticism only started to grow when australia was losing. The aggression was no longer a footnote to the success - it was icing on top of a losing cake.
So when the English press dissect this loss they will have no choice but to address the ridiculous carry on that came with it from Anderson, Buttler etc.
it accentuates an already embarrassing outcome
 

BarryMorgan

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I reckon the result will take care of that. They will get bollocked by their press. The difference over the years is that when australia, or India/SA for that matter have been winning and carrying on like spanners, the result often meant that those nations’ home media would paper over the carry on. Even here in Australia I think the media criticism only started to grow when australia was losing. The aggression was no longer a footnote to the success - it was icing on top of a losing cake.
So when the English press dissect this loss they will have no choice but to address the ridiculous carry on that came with it from Anderson, Buttler etc.
it accentuates an already embarrassing outcome
Great response.

It really was head scratching stuff from England, one of the most tactically inept performances in a long time.
 

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Great response.

It really was head scratching stuff from England, one of the most tactically inept performances in a long time.

I follow a team that routinely buck the trend of common sense and find new ways to get it wrong. But often I can almost see the logic in what they’re doing. Win the toss and bowl because it is low percentage but may be your ONLY chance of winning. Have all your top order come out swinging as it’s low percentage but maybe your ONLY chance of winning. Be conservative because it may be your ONLY chance.

I can’t see a single, solitary reason for anything England did last night from the instant Rishabh Pant nicked that ball.
 

Nuggetz

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These are a few of the issues I had with what England were doing last night, bearing in mind I have no problem with bowling short at the tail or quicks getting lippy at batsmen:

1. Bumrah while his batting has improved considerably is a bunny. What’s the best you can achieve from a concerted effort to intimidate him? Lower his average from its career mark of 3 to a series average of 2 and gain bragging rights in that ‘battle?’ This isn’t archer to smith trying to curb a superhuman record to a manageable 35-40 average for a series or something. You’re bowling at Chris Martin’s closest known relative. Who do you brag to if you ‘break’ him as a batsman?

2. your best chance to intimidate someone or gain an edge probably lies with your two best bowlers, not a fast but otherwise breathtakingly ordinary fast bowler. Shannon Gabriel bowls high 140s too - do you think Anyone was scared of him when he was averaging 40 with the ball?

3. once you’ve committed to this brainless tactic wouldn’t you back it up with your field settings? If I’m a tail ender knowing I’m about to be bounced, I look around at 3 men on the boundary and think ‘so these guys actually think I can bat?’ ******* crowd the bat, two under the lid, a leg slip, leg gully. Make him feel like there is pressure on him not just physical danger.

4. once that stupid approach was dispensed with, why would you then not go 3 slips, 2 gullies, short cover, and actually bowl like you would if it was the start of day five and the ACTUAL batsmen were at the crease?

That whole session was just one colossal fu** up after another but with all the tests root, Anderson, Bairstow, even Buttler and Ali have played, no one thought to do something about it. It’s not like the decision to go after Bumrah was the deal-sealer. They have 5-6 opportunities AFTER that didn’t work to still wrap up the innings and leave an easily reachable target. Root and the bowlers need to wear a lot of that. But I know just from my own pathetic cricketing experience that if I’m seeing that sort of self destruction, I go to the captain or the bowler of my own volition and I ******* say something. The other senior players have to shoulder the blame too.

All in all that, if you were an England fan, was an utterly disgusting day of cricket and they should rightfully be held to account

This is spot on. I was dumbfounded by Root's captaincy and field placements. Bumrah and Shami started taking easy singles with the field placement.
 

Park cricketer

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This must sting Joe Root. It's not quite Headingley but it must feel a bit like losing that Headingley test after being favourites to win the match at the start of day 5.

Keeping 3 fielders on the legside boundary to Bumrah was really poor. Almost brought back to memory when Misbah I think adopted a similar tactic in a test in Sri Lanka.
 

konkani

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This must sting Joe Root. It's not quite Headingley but it must feel a bit like losing that Headingley test after being favourites to win the match at the start of day 5.

Keeping 3 fielders on the legside boundary to Bumrah was really poor. Almost brought back to memory when Misbah I think adopted a similar tactic in a test in Sri Lanka.
Lol Misbah. What kind of forward thinking organisation would make him a head coach of their team and basically ruin it by favouring old has-beens to young potential, butcher team selections etc, etc. Certainly not the mother**** team i support
 

konkani

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I think a lot of posters on this board nailed it. England prioritised winning the Bumrah 'battle' over winning the match. One of the most satisfying backfires ever, considering Anderson's behaviour.

The two players aside from Root who have the most mental fortitude in the England set up are Broad and Stokes (yes I know that sounds strange considering Broad mentally can’t get past his batting scars). The guys in there at the moment look absolutely bereft and having bits and pieces players like Curran and Ali in there doesn’t help. This is the ultimate team of downhill skiers at the moment and they need to sort it out quickly.
really like this analysis but i wouldn't say Sam Curran was a downhill skier? Butler just can't crack test cricket for some reason, maybe too confused by all the white ball cricket
 
May 5, 2016
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I think a lot of posters on this board nailed it. England prioritised winning the Bumrah 'battle' over winning the match. One of the most satisfying backfires ever, considering Anderson's behaviour.


really like this analysis but i wouldn't say Sam Curran was a downhill skier? Butler just can't crack test cricket for some reason, maybe too confused by all the white ball cricket

Since that initial foray into Test cricket where he admittedly made some very important runs down the order Curran has been ordinary with the bat. After 10 completed innings (there was a 0 not out) he had 3 half centuries, and 3 scores in the 40s, and was averaging 40.

in his time since he has scored 396 runs in 22 innings. That would be handy for a specialist bowler but he’s only taken 31 wickets in that time as well at 35, and with the exception of two Tests in Sri Lanka and 2 in the West Indies, all 12 of the other tests have been in England, SA and NZ - the best bowling conditions a bowler like him could ever ask for. Even the two matches in the West Indies were played on two pitches where WI didn’t even take a wicket with spin until the second innings of the second test.

whatever it is they think they can get out of him, they aren’t getting it at the moment.
 

konkani

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Since that initial foray into Test cricket where he admittedly made some very important runs down the order Curran has been ordinary with the bat. After 10 completed innings (there was a 0 not out) he had 3 half centuries, and 3 scores in the 40s, and was averaging 40.

in his time since he has scored 396 runs in 22 innings. That would be handy for a specialist bowler but he’s only taken 31 wickets in that time as well at 35, and with the exception of two Tests in Sri Lanka and 2 in the West Indies, all 12 of the other tests have been in England, SA and NZ - the best bowling conditions a bowler like him could ever ask for. Even the two matches in the West Indies were played on two pitches where WI didn’t even take a wicket with spin until the second innings of the second test.

whatever it is they think they can get out of him, they aren’t getting it at the moment.
Oh yeah I agree with all this and cheers it is very thorough, i just wouldn't call him a downhill skier ; I think it's more of a talent/skill problem. I admittedly don't get to watch as much cricket as some here i think though and am probably much more of an armchair fan... like i haven't played heaps since as a kid which doesn't count really.
 
Sep 13, 2020
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This is spot on. I was dumbfounded by Root's captaincy and field placements. Bumrah and Shami started taking easy singles with the field placement.
It was terrible captaincy , handed momentum to the opposition and put a thin batting lineup under the pump .

The most mindboggling part was persisting with the same 'plan' for an hour
 

Park cricketer

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Oh yeah I agree with all this and cheers it is very thorough, i just wouldn't call him a downhill skier ; I think it's more of a talent/skill problem. I admittedly don't get to watch as much cricket as some here i think though and am probably much more of an armchair fan... like i haven't played heaps since as a kid which doesn't count really.

There are some players who appear to be gifted to the naked eye but don't go on to make the most of their talent. Shaun Marsh is an example and even Rohit Sharma to an extent in Test cricket.

Then there are some players who don't necessarily possess the greatest skill set but perform through their sheer mental fortitude. I think Sam Curran is one of those. But there is only so much you can do with your mental fortitude if you can only bowl around 130ks and is short. The best conditions for Sam Curran are in England when the ball hoops around, even in England on flattish surfaces like this, his shortcomings will be visible and he'll have a worse record than Woakes in overseas conditions if he bowls in places like Australia, India, etc. He does have utility in test cricket in certain conditions (when the ball moves around, etc.), but I think short form cricket is the best format for him. He should look to prioritise his batting more to play a bigger role in Test cricket.

P.S.: Now watch Sam Curran rip us a new one in the remaining tests.
 

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