Play Nice Indigenous AFL players call out Adam Goodes's treatment ahead of The Final Quarter documentary release

Status
Not open for further replies.

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Wonderdog

Senior List
Nov 14, 2001
254
171
Canberra
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Because Cassius/Muhammad was prepared to go to jail for his beliefs, he was thrown out of his sport at the peak of his career.

Goodes had a dummy spit because he couldn’t handle being booed and went walkabout in Bondi for a section of the footy season.

What an absolute flog.
But the principle is the same. Standing up for your beliefs. I think part of the reason he was booed and other Aboriginal were not is that he refused to accept the racist crap. He didn’t turn the other cheek. He pointed it out and white Australians were not prepared for it.
 

Wonderdog

Senior List
Nov 14, 2001
254
171
Canberra
AFL Club
North Melbourne
As the voices of disquiet rose the following day he said ...




So here he was the following day justifying pointing this young girl out in the crowd to security and telling them them to get her out, by saying that initially he'd thought she was 14 (as if that would make any difference). This girl BTW, was a few days beforehand 12. She had just turned 13 when she went to that game. Who knows, her ticket may even have been a birthday present. A birthday to remember no doubt.
So if the racist voice was a Beer gutted bogan would the public view have been different.
 

Wonderdog

Senior List
Nov 14, 2001
254
171
Canberra
AFL Club
North Melbourne
If it was an adult of any variety using the words she used - "You're an ape", yes, much different.
I agree. But the voice that was racist was racist. It wasn’t Goodes’ fault that she was only 13. She was with adults who obviously allowed it. Why should he have turned a blind eye to an unknown racist voice. Too many people are using her age as a convenient excuse to attack Goodes for standing up for his ace.
 

Crankitup

Premiership Player
Sep 23, 2006
3,039
1,830
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Subiaco
I agree. But the voice that was racist was racist. It wasn’t Goodes’ fault that she was only 13. She was with adults who obviously allowed it. Why should he have turned a blind eye to an unknown racist voice. Too many people are using her age as a convenient excuse to attack Goodes for standing up for his ace.
So you contend that she was being intentionally racist? Have you read the whole thread? I ask because your answer could take us back over old ground.
 

Wonderdog

Senior List
Nov 14, 2001
254
171
Canberra
AFL Club
North Melbourne
So you contend that she was being intentionally racist? Have you read the whole thread? I ask because your answer could take us back over old ground.
No I haven’t read the thread. And no I didn’t think she was deliberately racist nor did I say she was. It’s simple Goodes heard a racist comment and called it out. As he should have. I am sure her intent, gender or age was not factor in his decision.
 

kranky al

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 30, 2009
16,137
19,642
Greenough
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
east perth www.pixelpac.com.au
Then you called him stupid and tried to back your argument up with dictionaries.

I tried to help, but you seemed content with the hole you were digging.
Here is the op from this whole subtext:

I suppose bolt is racist as well?
Bolt is a convicted racist so yes

Found guilty / convicted - who actually gives a shit? Unless you are still trying to deflect from the fact that hes a racist pos
 

Crankitup

Premiership Player
Sep 23, 2006
3,039
1,830
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Subiaco
No I haven’t read the thread. And no I didn’t think she was deliberately racist nor did I say she was. It’s simple Goodes heard a racist comment and called it out. As he should have. I am sure her intent, gender or age was not factor in his decision.

Words can't be racist, only people can be. To save me repeating myself, do me a favour and read post number #2,246 from this thread and tell me if Howard Cosell was racist when he used the words, "Look at that little monkey run".
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

LoungeLizard

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
8,335
6,377
gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
Here is the op from this whole subtext:





Found guilty / convicted - who actually gives a s**t? Unless you are still trying to deflect from the fact that hes a racist pos
How can i be deflecting when i was never arguing about Bolt?

The hole is getting deeper and deeper.

You f****d up but won't admit it.

Stupid you called him, you got the wrong bloke, you were looking in the mirror.
 

SBD Gonzalez

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 5, 2012
10,434
12,042
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Kidding, right?
Sorry to butt in because I know these comments were directed at another poster but permit me to say a few things.

(1) I don't think you'll find many that will argue with much of what you've said.

(2) I think it's a bit much to say that because Aboriginals didn't get the vote until 1967, and Terra Nullis etc that people must have booed Adam because they were racist.

(3) There have been several turning points that radically changed things for the better for indigenous football players. 1993 was the first real catalyst for change when Nicky Winmar lifted his shirt and pointed to his skin in response to comments such as "go and sniff some petrol" and "go walkabout where you came from" emanating from sections of the Collingwood cheer squad. When a photo of the action made it's way to the Sunday Age under a headline 'I'm black and I'm proud of it', it cast an unforgettable image. Two years later the next catalyst occurred when a Collingwood player wrestling with Michael Long and Che Cockatoo-Collins yelled out “Get off me, you little black c**t” and Long subsequently made an official complaint forcing the AFL to eventually introduce Australia's first sports law outlawing racial vilification. Then in 2005 we saw the start of Indigenous Round.

(4) In 2013 when Brownlow medalist and All-Australian Goodes singled out the naive 13 yo Collingwood girl in he crowd to security and told them to "Get her out, I don't want her here" Australia was a lot different place than what you describe in your post. Yet, Goodes, when criticised for singling her out started justifying his action, the rot (booing) started. Two years later when he charged towards Carlton supporters during a game, he sealed his fate and the booing got worse. Commetti at the time said “Probably best not to do it,” “Won’t stop the booing.” Dermott Brereton summed it up at the time also when he said "To actually run at somebody in a war dance ... it actually signifies ‘I want to be violent against you’,” he said. “No good can come of it.”

Don't get me wrong here, when the 13 yo Collingwood supporter (see a pattern here BTW) said what she said, she made a big mistake. Goodes made the next one, and then two years later, another. He should've been the bigger person and shrugged her insult off. Winmar & Long et al had been through a lot worse and been instrumental in monumentally positive change. Goodes actions IMO, put further positive action for indigenous affairs in the AFL, on hold for a few years.
Thanks for your detailed and nuanced post. I disagree with much of it.

I’m not saying that the well-documented history of racial discrimination in this country proves that all the booing against Goodes was racially-motivated.

I’m certainly saying it suggests there’s a fairly decent chance that at least some of it would have been racially motivated.

That would be enough for me to decide to not boo someone.

Clearly for many people, their sacred right to boo (a right that apparently is held dear by a great many Australians, though I confess I was utterly unaware of its seminal role in the shaping of our nation until recently) overrides any namby-pamby concerns about perceptions of racism.

And I think you’re entirely over-egging the incident with the 13 year old girl. Like many others on here, you’re choosing to completely ignore Goodes’ deeply concerned and compassionate comments at the press conference the next day. NO-ONE could read his comments and think “Aah, fair dinkum, the guy’s a dcikhead”.

Unless it didn’t suit their narrative, of course.

And the protestations about the war dance against Carlton are just plain silly. It was a god dam traditional war dance FFS. In the bloody Indigenous Round. Are people so completely ignorant of indigenous culture that they seriously thought he was actually threatening the fans? I mean, it’s actually quite embarrassing to read such a pathetic argument.
 
Last edited:

SBD Gonzalez

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 5, 2012
10,434
12,042
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Kidding, right?
So because an oldern days Australian parliament made racist decisions, therefor fans booing in 2019 is racist too. "Hey didn't you know another white person in this country was racist, therefor it's more likely what you're doing is racist."

Brilliant logic.
Jeez mate, join the dots. Read my post above this one. And stop putting words into other people’s mouths.
 

SBD Gonzalez

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 5, 2012
10,434
12,042
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Kidding, right?
Ohh ffs. How many times does it have to be pointed out. Hawthorn people booed him whilst having players that are aboriginal on their list for starters. Same with basically every side. Cyril, Buddy, burgoyne, Ryder, the list goes on, have never been booted unless they wacked an opposition player. If you dont understand that then you have no hope and I'm done with you.
Sorry mate, I’m not done with you because nothing gets me going more than deliberate obtuseness.

I might remind you that you came on here making a categorical statement that none of the booing of Goodes was racially motivated; that it was entirely due to (apparently self-evident) dirty acts.

You provided no proof whatsoever in that post.

That was the post that I responded to, and you still haven’t.

And then your “proof” now, is that not all indigenous players are booed. Embarrassing.

Others have analysed the stats. The “Goodes was a dirty player” argument does not stand up to examination.

Examine the stats and prove them wrong. Go on.
 

Crankitup

Premiership Player
Sep 23, 2006
3,039
1,830
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Subiaco
Thanks for your detailed and nuanced post. I disagree with much of it.

Puzzled by your use of the word nuanced here. Was it because you found it so hard to come up with anything resembling a reply to it, that it took you two days to do so, despite it being an issue you're so passionate about?

If so, thanks for your crude and inexact post, I disagree with virtually all of it. We're never going to see eye to eye on the issue so why waste each others time?

If not ... see above.
 

SBD Gonzalez

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 5, 2012
10,434
12,042
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Kidding, right?
You didn't show anything of the sort, you showed he was found guilty, not convicted.

And you call people stupid, maybe you have stupid right, but just the wrong person.
Let’s concede your point. There is some degree of difference between “found guilty“ and “convicted”.

Bolt was found guilty of racial vilification.

How does your point about the different meaning of “convicted” affect that fact one iota?
 

SBD Gonzalez

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 5, 2012
10,434
12,042
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Kidding, right?
rofl i wasnt the one who made the initial incorrect assertion and tried to back it up.
Rofl but none of that matters compared to you wasting two pages of this thread trying to pretend that Bolt wasn’t found guilty of racial vilification.
 

LoungeLizard

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
8,335
6,377
gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
Let’s concede your point. There is some degree of difference between “found guilty“ and “convicted”.

Bolt was found guilty of racial vilification.

How does your point about the different meaning of “convicted” affect that fact one iota?
The fact that he is a racist?

It doesn't change that fact one iota.

But if someone calls someone else stupid, then they should know the facts 1st.

My argument had nothing to do with Bolt, if you read from when i started you would see that.
 

SBD Gonzalez

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 5, 2012
10,434
12,042
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Kidding, right?
Puzzled by your use of the word nuanced here. Was it because you found it so hard to come up with anything resembling a reply to it, that it took you two days to do so, despite it being an issue you're so passionate about?

If so, thanks for your crude and inexact post, I disagree with virtually all of it. We're never going to see eye to eye on the issue so why waste each others time?

If not ... see above.
Jeez, hit a raw nerve have I? Your nuance didn’t last very long.

No, I take two days to reply to a post because I’m a busy professional with a large family and I often have more pressing things to do than rebut tired arguments that have already been rebutted countless times.
 

SBD Gonzalez

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 5, 2012
10,434
12,042
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Kidding, right?
The fact that he is a racist?

It doesn't change that fact one iota.

But if someone calls someone else stupid, then they should know the facts 1st.

My argument had nothing to do with Bolt, if you read from when i started you would see that.
Yep, that’s you, a tireless fighter for nomenclatural exactitude.

Meanwhile, on the topic of real harm done to indigenous people by Bolt’s hateful lie...
 

Wonderdog

Senior List
Nov 14, 2001
254
171
Canberra
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Words can't be racist, only people can be. To save me repeating myself, do me a favour and read post number #2,246 from this thread and tell me if Howard Cosell was racist when he used the words, "Look at that little monkey run".
So are you saying the words weren’t racist? The Cosell example is completely different. His intent may have different I don’t know. I do know Goodes heard words that offended him and his race and decided to call them out. If I was him I would have have found them racist but would not have had the guts to do anything about it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top Bottom