Indigenous land claims and self-government?

BlueMark

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Posts
2,233
Likes
12
Location
MELB
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Carlton
#26
PerthCrow you are quite right that the 'Aboriginal issue' has been hijacked by vested interests both left and right. The right are interested in 'blame the victim' and the left and coddling them, both are patronising and wrong. A large percentage of my client base is Koori and thier issues and problems are the same as my white clients. There are however suble differences in working with Koori clients that has to do with thier cultural background. For instance all property is communal property, ie if I buy a washing machine for a Koori client it is likely that it will end up somewhere else. If I provide a food hamper it will be shared amongst the rest of the clients. The same goes for money and housing. Once as a worker one understands this then service response can be tailored accordingly.

As for discrimination, I see it everyday in many subtle forms. Koori clients will be offered public housing that is sub-standard or has not been though a pre-leasing mateniance cycle. Or it will be the specialist appt that will be offered for 7.30am or 6.00pm at night and then cancelled. It will be the Police following Kooris up the street or parking up the road from them for extended periods, or just harrassing them in the street. One client was 'spoken to' by the same officer 3 times in the space of two hours a couple days ago and subjected to bag searches.

Leper be prepared to bare your butt.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Leper

Premiership Player
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Posts
3,285
Likes
517
Location
E106o44' S06o17'
AFL Club
Richmond
#27
BM, given that you refer to "Koori clients" I assume you work for some form of agency / department which gives handouts, and you aren't a high end stockbroker or investment banker or the like (sincere apologies if I'm wrong).

If so, it intrigues me that Centerlink et al refer to people as "clients" when the "client" is the one lining up for a free handout at taxpayers' expense, and these same "clients" complain when the handout is not a 5 star hotel. By my definition a "client" is someone paying for a service.

I'm sure they only use this term to make them feel good about themselves (self esteem).

Oh, and the apology thing is ALL about $$. Already happened in Canada and their taxpayers' are up for millions.
 

Leper

Premiership Player
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Posts
3,285
Likes
517
Location
E106o44' S06o17'
AFL Club
Richmond
#28
BlueMark said:
...For instance all property is communal property, ie if I buy a washing machine for a Koori client it is likely that it will end up somewhere else....
I like this one! More than likely it we be at Cash Converters and converted into a communal flagon of sherry or ten!!!
 

- PC -

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Posts
30,268
Likes
23
Location
Where No Birds Fly
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide/Sturt/Wingfield
#29
Leper said:
I like this one! More than likely it we be at Cash Converters and converted into a communal flagon of sherry or ten!!!
Leper I note your location to be vietnam? Is that Cabramatta/Vietnam or the country? And if so how long have you been out of the country?

These are the attitudes that dont move the problem forward...

BM I was going to note the ''shared community'' culture as part of my argument but a doctors appointment called. I guess I find that the most frustrating part of aboriginal culture . I dont expect them to be capitalists but I would like to see some form of selfishness (for want of a better word) or at least some recognition of respect for anothers property. I guess (to jump back on the bandwagon) I dont want to hear '' its broke lets get the gubberment to get us another one ay'' . Maybe the problem is they see the ''gubberment '' as family and expect the government to share just like a family would . And thats where the disappointment stems from . And as noted dont you think the police services need a reminder of the responsibility to treat all people as one. This also leads on another entirely different issue for me..community policing..if the police know the community there shouldnt be this racism.
 

BlueMark

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Posts
2,233
Likes
12
Location
MELB
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Carlton
#30
Leper your last two posts were offensive and not worthy of a reply.

Nice of you though to think that stockbrokers have such a high social value, I can assure every cent of taxpayers money I spend is accounted for and justified unlike some of the dodgy tax claims made by our 'high social value' friends. Oh and I have had as clients a ex stock broker or two whose fondness of the white shiffing powder cost thier firms a lot of money.

Not all of us think in dollar value only, but if you want an example of saving the taxpayer. Every client I help rehabilitate and become stable within the community I save the taxpayer a lot of money in jail, hospital and legal costs.

Somebody in the office worked out that for every dollar we spend in wages and other costs returns back to the community at least 10 dollars in savings that would otherwise be spent and that is not counting the saving in emotional trauma.

So who has the better return Leper? The stockbroker or people like me.
 

BlueMark

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Posts
2,233
Likes
12
Location
MELB
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Carlton
#31
PerthCrow, The shared community can be frustrating as a worker and there has been more than one occassion I have had to say. 'This is for you no-one else' other times the shared community to my advantage as well.

One of the ways for the Aboriginal community to start addressing the issues that effect them is to ensure that as many of thier children as possible get an education and go on to university, this needs to be a community response. It clearly works in effecting change as this is exactly what the immigrant communities have done since the war. ie work from inside the system not outside it. It will take a generation but once these kids start rising within the 'system' they can address many of the issues that effect thier community.

What also needs to be done is for everyone to stop telling the community what to do and allow them to take responsibilty for many of the programs and funding distribution. However this is difficult precisly due to the fact that there are so few well educated aboriginals. A way around this in the short term is to have Kooris seconded onto advisary committees and boards so that at least they have a voice. We have done this within our own programs and it works a treat.

It is my view that education and ownership are the keys to unlocking the 'aboriginal probelm' and it will take time patience and understanding.
 

- PC -

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Posts
30,268
Likes
23
Location
Where No Birds Fly
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide/Sturt/Wingfield
#32
BlueMark said:
PerthCrow, The shared community can be frustrating as a worker and there has been more than one occassion I have had to say. 'This is for you no-one else' other times the shared community to my advantage as well.

One of the ways for the Aboriginal community to start addressing the issues that effect them is to ensure that as many of thier children as possible get an education and go on to university, this needs to be a community response. It clearly works in effecting change as this is exactly what the immigrant communities have done since the war. ie work from inside the system not outside it. It will take a generation but once these kids start rising within the 'system' they can address many of the issues that effect thier community.

What also needs to be done is for everyone to stop telling the community what to do and allow them to take responsibilty for many of the programs and funding distribution. However this is difficult precisly due to the fact that there are so few well educated aboriginals. A way around this in the short term is to have Kooris seconded onto advisary committees and boards so that at least they have a voice. We have done this within our own programs and it works a treat.

It is my view that education and ownership are the keys to unlocking the 'aboriginal probelm' and it will take time patience and understanding.
Brilliant post and I guess in our own way the things that Unit ,feher and myself have been trying to promote. The issue as you pointed out is that with shared communities, the leaders entrusted with those same monies fell back into helping family while ignoring or been split between the community IMO

What Unit,feher and myself have been saying is self determination is the first step towards eliminating a lot of the problems raised. IMO it was only when crocodileman ( who was one of the right you mentioned) made it a race issue when clearly we felt it wasnt.

Funny thing is croc probably was right when he was talking about the university entry for aboriginals but wrong when he suggested it should be automatic. You can include scholarship programs without impacting on university standards and then everyone gets a go .

Thank you once again for a great discussion
 

Leper

Premiership Player
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Posts
3,285
Likes
517
Location
E106o44' S06o17'
AFL Club
Richmond
#33
PerthCrow said:
Leper I note your location to be vietnam? Is that Cabramatta/Vietnam or the country? And if so how long have you been out of the country?

These are the attitudes that dont move the problem forward...
The country of course. Haven't lived in Aus for 5 years. Got sick of losing 40% of my income in tax to fund a generous social security system, although I do understand that's the price you pay to reduce crime / poverty. Besides it's a better lifestyle in many (but not all) respects as an expat which most people don't comprehend if they haven't lived it.

Blue Mark, you do put together a good argument and I accept your points. I must admit I used stockbrokers as a bad example bacause they are not far off lawyers and car salesmen when it comes to ethics and the like, and if you are helping the needy you certainly are doing something far more worthwhile than a stockbroker. My question was though do you call people "clients" who are there asking for a handout just so they feel good about themselves???

I admit it's selfish, but I don't want it to be my $1,000 in tax to pay for these handouts; $10,000 for the jail / rehab / etc or $50,000 for the apology.
 

BlueMark

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Posts
2,233
Likes
12
Location
MELB
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Carlton
#34
Funnily enough Leper there has been a lot of debate about the term that should be used for people who access services within the organisation itself.

Terms like stakeholder, serviceuser customer etc have been bandied about but to be honest client 'fits' best.

There is a misconception that charities are all about 'handouts and dogooding' while some certainly do fit the discription the organistation I work for is far from that mould.

My collegues and I work with a group that cannot or are unable to access mainstream services ie hospitals GPs even lawyers that the rest of us do on a daily basis. Even daily functioning is difficult. The reasons for this are many and varied but things like mental health and longterm institutionalisation (jail) play a factor, as well as family environment and substance abuse.

When we engage with a client there is no handout they are in fact expected to take ownership of thier issues and with our assistance work on and eventually resolve thier issues. This assitance takes many forms and a major part is behaviour modification via feedback. The client will have a caseplan (which identifies the issues and what needs to be done). Of course progress can be slow and difficult but over time noticable.

The 'handouts' that we give are assessed on a needs basis. ie if a client access a property we may provide a washing machine and a fridge which are basic needs for any person setting up a home. Often a family may provide these products as a moving in gift but given a lot of our clients do not have family we often act in the role of 'family' and do so in many circumstances particularly regarding health issues

A lot of our clients are far from angels and by the time they get to us they have been barred from many other services due to behaviuor or the sheer complexity of thier issues. Initial contact is often confronting and violence and abuse toward workers is not uncommon. Yet somehow our success rate in preventing relapse and fostering rehabilitation is very high.

I guess it is because we give a s.hit.

Trust me Leper in our case your tax dollars are being well used.
 
Top Bottom