Injuries 2019

[theGav56]

Anyone willing to speculate RTB and Belly have had the chat to Sandi regarding his future? Maybe move him aside and get someone in via the SSP

I’m sure they will realistically know if his body is willing and able. But who’s willing to make the tough decision?


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I think it is something they should discuss internally if he stays injured, and suggest to him that they are open to him retiring if he wants to.

But in terms of the mid-season draft I would be hoping we get some games into the likes of Bewley, North, Giro, Schultz, Switkowski and Valente as a priority unless there is an absolute stand out.

 

[estibador]

Totally agree. I wonder what books and papers the sports science staff at the successful clubs are putting out. I’d guess they’d be almost totally committed to their job of keeping their clubs playing list fit, healthy and available.

It's quite common around the league I think. Two friends of mine moved over to Melbourne this year to do research projects with AFL S&C depts.

Here's a bunch of publications from Glenn Stewart (head of sports science at the eagles):

Physiological and anthropometric characteristics of starters and non-starters and playing positions in elite Australian Rules Football: a case study.

Development and validation of a player impact ranking system in Australian football

The use of sprint tests for assessment of speed qualities of elite Australian rules footballers.

The effect of interstate travel on the sleep patterns and performance of elite Australian Rules footballers.

Movement pattern comparisons in elite (AFL) and sub-elite (WAFL) Australian football games using GPS.

Immediate post-match warm down : is it worth the trouble?

And a book:

Speed to win : the complete guide to improving speed, agility and quickness for football

 

[estibador]

Yep, and we're also pretending that we/Lyon do/does it more/less than what other clubs/coaches do/don't do.

I'm not making any claim or judgement about whether Lyon does it more, less, or the same than any other coach because I've never heard any info from anyone about other clubs. Just relaying what I've heard.

 

[BlueE]

Yes but do you understand why it's useful in load tracking and management? Quantity and force of CODs - braking phases in particular - are very much linked to injury risk.

I tracked down the full article to have a read. It's stresses how individualised every athlete's biomechanics and neuromuscular/mechanical loading responses to COD events are, and therefore how important individualised, real-time load tracking is.

Cumulative COD leads to the development of musculoskeletal and neuromuscular fatigue which can alter biomechanics leading to increased risk of injury. But current wearable tech is limited in its capacity to quantify the mechanical loading associated with repeated COD movement, so their aim was to develop a new algorithm which can detect and quantify COD loads.

The subjects used were recreational athletes, so I think you're off the mark suggesting Weber only got his name on the study for letting them use Freo data. He is part of ECU's Exercise Medicine Research Institute along with Balloch, Hart and Newton. This may or may not lead to anything significant, but you'd rather your head of performance be across new load management developments than not.

The full article was on research gate in the link. I understand the preamble how important forces are in changing direction. But simply put the author of the study is developing a formula (algorithm) to predict those forces from video analysis which you normally can't do accurately because it is a two dimensional medium. They were able to do that by correlating the results of normal telemetic measuring equipment with a small sample of subjects they tested running the same patterns. The advantage is that you can get an idea of the forces from the 2D video with the resulting algorithm.

Webber's name is the 5th author and you'll realise that this means possibly the only part he played in the study was to be a supervisor, maybe read the results or lend out Freo's telemetry testing equip.

However I can guarantee you it will not help him with any soft tissue injuries problems.

Basic first year 101 knowledge would tell you designing the weights programme you need to balance the hamstring and quad weights, which I'm sure they do. First year will also tell you that you increase the hamstring strength on leg curl machine you will only strengthen the muscle in that range of movement. That's OK if you're a rower or wanting to strut the cat walk, but when you're kicking a ball the range of movement is 20 -30 degrees more than a leg curl or extension machine.

The larger the weights the stronger you get the muscle in that limited range of movement. Asking for trouble with high hamstring pulls when sprinting and kicking in which you use that last 20 or 30 % of movement range. There are many ways to balance your strength programme but I haven't seen any evidence that we are implementing these.

The best predictor for a hamstring injury is a previous hamstring injury! Do not let it happen the first time.

It was obvious to a respected WAFL S&C coach I talked to last year who said when he first saw Fyfe last year that he's too big (upper body) and he'll get injured. Sure enough!

Webber should be in charge of this and these soft tissue injuries should be totally his responsibility.

PhD is usually 4 years full time. So is he studying for this 50% of the time, planning to take 8 years? Even then with his full time pivotal position at the Dockers with his other businesses I would question whether he is committing himself fully or able to design effective programmes to minimisie the soft tissue injuries at the Dockers.

 

[estibador]

The full article was on research gate in the link. I understand the preamble how important forces are in changing direction. But simply put the author of the study is developing a formula (algorithm) to predict those forces from video analysis which you normally can't do accurately because it is a two dimensional medium. They were able to do that by correlating the results of normal telemetic measuring equipment with a small sample of subjects they tested running the same patterns. The advantage is that you can get an idea of the forces from the 2D video with the resulting algorithm.

Webber's name is the 5th author and you'll realise that this means possibly the only part he played in the study was to be a supervisor, maybe read the results or lend out Freo's telemetry testing equip.

However I can guarantee you it will not help him with any soft tissue injuries problems.

Basic first year 101 knowledge would tell you designing the weights programme you need to balance the hamstring and quad weights, which I'm sure they do. First year will also tell you that you increase the hamstring strength on leg curl machine you will only strengthen the muscle in that range of movement. That's OK if you're a rower or wanting to strut the cat walk, but when you're kicking a ball the range of movement is 20 -30 degrees more than a leg curl or extension machine.

The larger the weights the stronger you get the muscle in that limited range of movement. Asking for trouble with high hamstring pulls when sprinting and kicking in which you use that last 20 or 30 % of movement range. There are many ways to balance your strength programme but I haven't seen any evidence that we are implementing these.

The best predictor for a hamstring injury is a previous hamstring injury! Do not let it happen the first time.

It was obvious to a respected WAFL S&C coach I talked to last year who said when he first saw Fyfe last year that he's too big (upper body) and he'll get injured. Sure enough!

Webber should be in charge of this and these soft tissue injuries should be totally his responsibility.

PhD is usually 4 years full time. So is he studying for this 50% of the time, planning to take 8 years? Even then with his full time pivotal position at the Dockers with his other businesses I would question whether he is committing himself fully or able to design effective programmes to minimisie the soft tissue injuries at the Dockers.

I can't see where you're getting the idea from that the algorithm is designed to analyse video. From my reading both papers state the algorithm is analysing the data from the Catapult units. In the first they compared it to a preset course where they knew the angles the subjects were running but in the second they added high speed video as a criterion measure to allow for the fact the subjects may have deviated from the set course.

I understand Weber may have 'only' been a supervisor, but that would be the best of both worlds really because it would mean he was fully across the results without wasting time doing the grunt work. A good supervisor should act as a quality control for the research too because it's their rep on the line.

I'd be very surprised if any professional sports team's hammy program was based around knee flexion exercises like leg curls rather than eccentric knee and hip exercises like nordics and rdls.

I don't disagree though that the S&C dept is responsible for soft tissue injuries. I defended them against the hysteria last year when the majority of our injuries were impact or twisting joint injuries, but there's a lot of red flags being thrown up this preseason with the amount of soft tissue injuries for sure.

 

[Alfonz]

I wouldn't call it "hysteria". A few examples (out of many) which are representative of a serious problem:

Blakely dislocating his shoulder (going back to 2017) and then being sent straight back out, only to dislocate it again. It wasn't far removed from the 12th Man skit with Bruce Reid sticky taping himself together.

Brad Hill being sent back onto the ground against Essendon. It happened in front of me, and it was obvious it was a bad injury. He collapsed in a heap horribly and it looked season ending. We were way in front and zero chance of losing. Then I see him hobbling back onto the ground? Ridiculous.

These are things other than just soft tissue injuries. It points to a general lack of competence across the board. Inability to prevent injuries, and inability to diagnose/manage injuries.

 

[estibador]

I wouldn't call it "hysteria". A few examples (out of many) which are representative of a serious problem:

Blakely dislocating his shoulder (going back to 2017) and then being sent straight back out, only to dislocate it again. It wasn't far removed from the 12th Man skit with Bruce Reid sticky taping himself together.

Brad Hill being sent back onto the ground against Essendon. It happened in front of me, and it was obvious it was a bad injury. He collapsed in a heap horribly and it looked season ending. We were way in front and zero chance of losing. Then I see him hobbling back onto the ground? Ridiculous.

These are things other than just soft tissue injuries. It points to a general lack of competence across the board. Inability to prevent injuries, and inability to diagnose/manage injuries.

Those are match day doctor/physio decisions though. Way outside the realm of an S&C coach's scope of practice

 

[tonygeeks]

It's quite common around the league I think. Two friends of mine moved over to Melbourne this year to do research projects with AFL S&C depts.

Here's a bunch of publications from Glenn Stewart (head of sports science at the eagles):

Physiological and anthropometric characteristics of starters and non-starters and playing positions in elite Australian Rules Football: a case study.

Development and validation of a player impact ranking system in Australian football

The use of sprint tests for assessment of speed qualities of elite Australian rules footballers.

The effect of interstate travel on the sleep patterns and performance of elite Australian Rules footballers.

Movement pattern comparisons in elite (AFL) and sub-elite (WAFL) Australian football games using GPS.

Immediate post-match warm down : is it worth the trouble?

And a book:

Speed to win : the complete guide to improving speed, agility and quickness for football

Couldn't BF reading any of them but his use of the word elite is absolutely elite


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[Big_Luch]

Apologies for the intrusion but I couldn't find a DT/SC thread. (delete if not appropriate)

I picked up Brad Hill in a draft league - didn't realise he did a calf in JLT2 - I did see him dominate JLT1 so thought he finally had a pre-season and was primed.

Is he a chance for rnd1/out for long?

 

[arsesmart]

Apologies for the intrusion but I couldn't find a DT/SC thread. (delete if not appropriate)

I picked up Brad Hill in a draft league - didn't realise he did a calf in JLT2 - I did see him dominate JLT1 so thought he finally had a pre-season and was primed.

Is he a chance for rnd1/out for long?

It was just a corked calf apparently, so should be round 1 ready. So hopefully you can carry him till about round 7.

 

[Alfonz]

Those are match day doctor/physio decisions though. Way outside the realm of an S&C coach's scope of practice

Yes, true. Weber would not be involved at a match. The point is that issues extend across a range of people in our fitness setup.

 

[Scham]

Those are match day doctor/physio decisions though. Way outside the realm of an S&C coach's scope of practice

Weber is head of Sports Science which oversees the doctors and physios as well as S and C. He would be making the final call after getting the info from the docs.

 

[Scham]

Yes, true. Weber would not be involved at a match. The point is that issues extend across a range of people in our fitness setup.

Weber is very involved at a match. He pretty much runs the interchange from what I understand.

 

[BlueE]

I can't see where you're getting the idea from that the algorithm is designed to analyse video. From my reading both papers state the algorithm is analysing the data from the Catapult units. In the first they compared it to a preset course where they knew the angles the subjects were running but in the second they added high speed video as a criterion measure to allow for the fact the subjects may have deviated from the set course.

I understand Weber may have 'only' been a supervisor, but that would be the best of both worlds really because it would mean he was fully across the results without wasting time doing the grunt work. A good supervisor should act as a quality control for the research too because it's their rep on the line.

I'd be very surprised if any professional sports team's hammy program was based around knee flexion exercises like leg curls rather than eccentric knee and hip exercises like nordics and rdls.

I don't disagree though that the S&C dept is responsible for soft tissue injuries. I defended them against the hysteria last year when the majority of our injuries were impact or twisting joint injuries, but there's a lot of red flags being thrown up this preseason with the amount of soft tissue injuries for sure.

Sorry, I may have been reading too much into one of those studies. Agree with what you are saying if Webbers only involvement was as supervisor, but still of what use are those studies to our soft tissue injury problems? Your list of the Head of Eagles S&C studies are of far more practical use in my opinion.

I don't know what the inside of the Dockers weights programme is and only looking at the results. Personally I would hope they are trying different regimes to address the problems they've had for years but not very confident they are. For example I haven't seen any PNF stretching with bands that some clubs are now using (obvious in cool downs on TV after games) that could help.

 

[wild side]

Logue will play based on his training photo this morning

 

[Harry Reems]

Just heard Hagdorn say that there is a major injury concern surrounding a big name player at the club. Of course by not naming the player, he can then keep quiet and say nothing if he gets it wrong. He also thinks that Brad Hill's injury is much worse than he is letting on.

 

[Wizard]

Just heard Hagdorn say that there is a major injury concern surrounding a big name player at the club. Of course by not naming the player, he can then keep quiet and say nothing if he gets it wrong. He also thinks that Brad Hill's injury is much worse than he is letting on.

Can we maybe stop posting s**t on here that the idiot says? Seriously, all it does is get people jumping at shadows and concerned about s**t that is generally non existent.

Its really easy for him to be right in this case, he can just point to Sandi or Harley and he can't lose.

 

[Superkoops]

Just heard Hagdorn say that there is a major injury concern surrounding a big name player at the club. Of course by not naming the player, he can then keep quiet and say nothing if he gets it wrong. He also thinks that Brad Hill's injury is much worse than he is letting on.

Has Crapdorn ever said anything positive about the Dockers??

BHill was fairly grilled last night and he said that he would train fully this week and definite for rd 1. He also said that he has never had a corky this bad. He said that he went for a decent run 2-days ago.

The main training are Tue/Thu let’s wait for more accurate reports to come back than this clown.

He is prob talking about Sandi who no one has seen on the track for months.


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[Wabjub]

Can we implement a rule where no Hackdorn information is posted unless it specifies a player and goes belond hearsay and his "ive heard but cant mention" crap?

Its the equivalent of that bloke at the pub who reckons he knows all the secrets on which horse will win and only mentions it once its got up. It literally offers zero input to the forum when you post "HACKDORN SAID SOMEONE BIG HAS A INJURY BUT DIDNT SAY WHO!!!!!!!". He then clogs up a page of people arguing over how s**t he is at reporting and then ends up in a clusterf*ck of posts and completely avoids the topic of the thread (no idea how far swearing is tolerated on this forum apologies).

 

[Walkingwounded]

"HACKDORN SAID SOMEONE BIG HAS A INJURY BUT DIDNT SAY WHO!!!!!!!".

I’m going to go out on a limb, and say the someone BIG is Sandilands

 

[muzzington]

"Someone BIG and IMPORTANT at the Dockers has an injury and it's NAT FYFE 's friend Aaron Sandilands"

 

[Mr Fonebone]

Just heard Hagdorn say that there is a major injury concern surrounding a big name player at the club. Of course by not naming the player, he can then keep quiet and say nothing if he gets it wrong. He also thinks that Brad Hill's injury is much worse than he is letting on.

IF Hagdorn is right then I am tipping it will be Hogan. This would be entirely consistent with Freo's luck in this area.

I have my fingers crossed that he is blowing it out of his bum.

 

[Clems Knee]

IF Hagdorn is right

Stopped reading there.

 

[Square Peg]

I'm beginning to think Harry Reems is Hagdorn

 

[Monument Hills]

Breaking news: Sandilands has a serious calf injury he may not get back playing from!! Sorry to let you know people of this sudden news.