Roast Inner Feral Fan Unleashed - Warning - Unbridled, passionate, and objectionable opinions within

[SkyhorseTamer]

And I think it's as unhealthy for Smith as it is for Fyfe.

Would it make him better to learn how to take time away from being obsessive and obsessed with cricket? It'd make him a better leader, more capable of understanding the right time and place to hold a piece of yellow sandpaper, perhaps.

I think you're wrong for the simple reason that it drives them crazy not doing it. It's better for their mental state to do it. If they have the capacity to keep going without burnout and at good enough intensity and quality you should let them. These are the practices that make them the players they are.

The sandpaper comment is idiotic nonsense nothing to do with this debate at all. Has nothing to do with it because many athletes practice this way. You're a brave (and possibly naive) person to think you know better than people like Smithy and Fyfe on what works and doesn't for them.

I don't disagree exactly, nor do I take the same approach with all of my players. But there reaches a point in which you're not adding anything with further practice, you're not replicating the right movements or the correct attitude. You're practicing for practice's sake.

I know what you mean but if the practice isn't lazy then it's fine. Bad habits only creep in with lazy practice. If the intensity and concentration remain high its no drama. As soon as that quality drops you call it.

If they want to see more accurate goalkicking, turn the clock off and let them take a full minute instead of 30 seconds before forcing them to take the shot. Give them adequate time to get themselves centred, their routine front and central, and their breath back before they have to kick at goal. You'd

Not denying any of this, I agree. Brutal game requiring good foot skills from feet you can no longer feel after repeat sprints.

 

[Gethelred]

I think you're wrong for the simple reason that it drives them crazy not doing it. It's better for their mental state to do it. If they have the capacity to keep going without burnout and at good enough intensity and quality you should let them. These are the practices that make them the players they are.

The sandpaper comment is idiotic nonsense nothing to do with this debate at all. Has nothing to do with it because many athletes practice this way. You're a brave (and possibly naive) person to think you know better than people like Smithy and Fyfe on what works and doesn't for them.

And I think you're crazy just to let them be.

I've been called genius before. I could talk fluently as a small child. I was reading novels before I started school. I barely did any work, and most just let me go because even doing no work I was good/smart/knowledgeable enough to be considered genius.

We both idolize and isolate genius as a species. We look at it as innate to the person who holds it, yet we don't question their choices or decisions because 'it's who they are', 'it's their process', 'it's why they're so good!'.

I mean, I'm not afraid of being wrong; the subsequent years has given me a healthy disrespect for notions of genius or the individual quality of a person being sufficient justification for their actions. I've been wrong plenty of times, and I'll continue to be wrong again; it makes me a better coach, and once I complete my qualification it will make me a better teacher.

Being obsessive is not healthy, and being a genius in your field does not make you right always. And I object to the notion that because Smith or Fyfe, they know what's right. If that's naive, it's certainly not the first time I've been called that, either. If that's brave, I don't see how making an unpopular (if correct) opinion makes one brave.

As for the sandpaper comment, is it? If Smith spent less time honing himself and his coaches less time on letting him go, would he have been a better captain/leader? Would he have gone along with Warner's plan? Would he have spent more time getting to know his players and the game as a leader/person rather than solely himself and his batting?

How much worse a player would he be if he was trained to be comfortable in his own skin?

We don't know the answer to these questions, nor can we. But Smith's weakness as captain is based on his singleminded self-centredness, and that is largely the way it is because coaches just let him do his own thing.

I know what you mean but if the practice isn't lazy then it's fine. Bad habits only creep in with lazy practice. If the intensity and concentration remain high its no drama. As soon as that quality drops you call it.

Not denying any of this, I agree. Brutal game requiring good foot skills from feet you can no longer feel after repeat sprints.

He went out there without a coach, with only someone to kick it back to him. He went out after a game, and they did as you suggest; he's gone on to do his own thing.

He won't improve that way. If he does, bring it to my attention, and I'll admit that I was wrong.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I've been called genius before. I could talk fluently as a small child. I was reading novels before I started school. I barely did any work, and most just let me go because even doing no work I was good/smart/knowledgeable enough to be considered genius.

So I'm debating with ego or logic here? I can retort with my own list but I'll just say I stack up at least evenly. Nothing you've said is anything I wasn't doing and all of this is just ego I don't even know why youve brought it into the discussion if not to try to intimidate me into how you might be more knowledgeable than me. I'm not even commenting on your intelligence, I just think you're being a bit close minded to the fact that some people just operate differently to others. It's that simple. What does work for one doesn't for others. I even think what you say is correct more often than not but maybe it's the only way Fyfe likes doing things. He might enjoy it and it might be his way of unwinding. You don't know so you can't comment.

Being obsessive is not healthy, and being a genius in your field does not make you right always. And I object to the notion that because Smith or Fyfe, they know what's right. If that's naive, it's certainly not the first time I've been called that, either. If that's brave, I don't see how making an unpopular (if correct) opinion makes one brave.

Most elite athletes are obsessive. It's how they separate themselves from the rest in an immensely competitive field.

 

[Gethelred]

So I'm debating with ego or logic here? I can retort with my own list but I'll just say I stack up at least evenly. Nothing you've said is anything I wasn't doing and all of this is just ego I don't even know why youve brought it into the discussion if not to try to intimidate me into how you might be more knowledgeable than me. I'm not even commenting on your intelligence, I just think you're being a bit close minded to the fact that some people just operate differently to others. It's that simple. What does work for one doesn't for others. I even think what you say is correct more often than not but maybe it's the only way Fyfe likes doing things. He might enjoy it and it might be his way of unwinding. You don't know so you can't comment.

Most elite athletes are obsessive. It's how they separate themselves from the rest in an immensely competitive field.

It's not ego driven; or at least, it wasn't intentionally.

More, I genuinely think we let the brilliant get too far away from the rest of us. Sure, it seems to work for them sometimes, but it also means that you just let them go when they're doing crazy bullshit.

Wasn't having a crack at you. I'm a bit frustrated that what I'm saying isn't coming across how I want it to: that I view these behaviours as fundamentally unhealthy, and driving these obsessive people towards other obsessions can both result in them being happier and still good to brilliant at the thing they're already doing.

You're right, I don't know about Fyfe, but that doesn't stop me from wondering.

 

[Mr_Plow]

I'm both awed and amazed at some of the enthusiasm and passion in our young supporters at football matches, particularly the 13-21 year old age group. Witnessed it first-hand yesterday, incredible emotional investment; this young man behind me who was no more than 21, absolutely furious at nobody supporting Pittonet who was in a headlock. It was inspiring to see.

Took my brother to his first match in a couple of years yesterday. He is 18, and has absolutely no reason to like Carlton if not for me. Surprisingly, he was more invested in the match than I was, and despite my attempts to leave early (spent most of the 2nd half on my phone), he wanted to stay until the end.

Us 25-30 year olds are already scarred, indifferent, detached. We're used to this story, yet we front up every week out of habit.

If being a Carlton supporter for the last 25 years has taught me anything, it is resilience, even in the face of diabolical failure. Has held me in good stead thus far, and I'm sure it will too for the emerging generation.

 

[juzz88]

I'm both awed and amazed at some of the enthusiasm and passion in our young supporters at football matches, particularly the 13-21 year old age group. Witnessed it first-hand yesterday, incredible emotional investment; this young man behind me who was no more than 21, absolutely furious at nobody supporting Pittonet who was in a headlock. It was inspiring to see.

Took my brother to his first match in a couple of years yesterday. He is 18, and has absolutely no reason to like Carlton if not for me. Surprisingly, he was more invested in the match than I was, and despite my attempts to leave early (spent most of the 2nd half on my phone), he wanted to stay until the end.

Us 25-30 year olds are already scarred, indifferent, detached. We're used to this story, yet we front up every week out of habit.

If being a Carlton supporter for the last 25 years has taught me anything, it is resilience, even in the face of diabolical failure. Has held me in good stead thus far, and I'm sure it will too for the emerging generation.

You poor bastard, you're not even old enough to have seen the 95 flag?

 

[Original Moody Blue]

You didn't address my post

Same number of scoring shots

And please don't go down injuries given how many players we had out

You do understand that the last quarter was a dead quarter and both sides went through the motions??? No, you count the last quarter.
At 3/4 quarter time PA had 19 shots to 16. 14.5 to 6.10. In the final dead quarter we kicked 3.4 to 1.1. Are you suggesting that the AFL should give us 1 premiership point??

 

[Arr0w]

You do understand that the last quarter was a dead quarter and both sides went through the motions??? No, you count the last quarter.
At 3/4 quarter time PA had 19 shots to 16. 14.5 to 6.10. In the final dead quarter we kicked 3.4 to 1.1. Are you suggesting that the AFL should give us 1 premiership point??

So then the last qtr against the Dockers was a dead qtr? So people whinging that we switched off wasn't actually the case?

Again, try and address my post rather than what's in your head

 

[Original Moody Blue]

So then the last qtr against the Dockers was a dead qtr? So people whinging that we switched off wasn't actually the case?

Again, try and address my post rather than what's in your head

WTF are you talking about? What dimension is your head in atm? We are talking about the Port game and you are still living one week ago in Freo land?
Freo are 1 game clear and 1.9% on percentage...They play Norf next week at home...4 points, we play Brisbane at home. If we lose, Freo go two games clear..
FACT!!

 

[Arr0w]

WTF are you talking about? What dimension is your head in atm? We are talking about the Port game and you are still living one week ago in Freo land?
Freo are 1 game clear and 1.9% on percentage...They play Norf next week at home...4 points, we play Brisbane at home. If we lose, Freo go two games clear..
FACT!!

I will continue to take you back to my first reply to you, we had as much of the ball as they did, including shots on goal

It was our execution that let us down in front of goal and around the ground

So with Dockers playing Norf this week, does the season finish at round 6?

 

[agro]

I know exactly where they are and what was stated, which at this stage aren't inaccurate

But your, Swans 4 month rebuild claim, well everyone knows that incorrect outcome

Whether it’s 4 months, 6 months, 12 months, 2 years - Sydney’s still quicker than ours.


Your the master of the file cards, but still no bookmarks.


Try and play the ball instead of your usual.

 

[Arr0w]

Whether it’s 4 months, 6 months, 12 months, 2 years - Sydney’s still quicker than ours.


Your the master of the file cards, but still no bookmarks.


Try and play the ball instead of your usual.

This is what staggers me, the cherry picking of a side that haven't even gone through a stripped back rebuild and have been blooding kids for a number of years, but you already know that, yet you want to use it as a comparison to highlight one of your agendas. But even then you falsify the timeline

Why not use the likes of the Saints and Lions, where our timeline was ahead of their rebuilds as of the end of last year? Doesn't suit the agenda

As for my bookmarks, I stated we wouldn't win the spoon in 2019, not finish bottom 6 in 2020, despite your pessimistic clan suggesting we would

This year I stated we would make finals, we are 5 rounds in, so let's see how that pans out.

But I have posted mine in the appropriate thread, that's visible to everyone

The doomdayers stated the season was over in round 2, what would you call that prediction? Balanced? Others suggesting we would be 0-6, or 1-5, that's already been dispelled

Try and play the ball? Bit rich coming from you

Game Day - Rnd 5 - Carlton v Port Game Day Discussion

Mckay 2 touches Williamson only 4 and not helping defensively very much running around like a headless chook Pitt 4 not involved in link play at all and getting smashed by lycett Sps 4 touches - Parks out of the team and willo back, what a surprise SPS is asked to be a lockdown again looks sh*t...

www.bigfooty.com

Game Day - Rnd 5 - Carlton v Port Game Day Discussion

Mckay 2 touches Williamson only 4 and not helping defensively very much running around like a headless chook Pitt 4 not involved in link play at all and getting smashed by lycett Sps 4 touches - Parks out of the team and willo back, what a surprise SPS is asked to be a lockdown again looks sh*t...

www.bigfooty.com

Game Day - Rnd 5 - Carlton v Port Game Day Discussion

10 year member, I don’t get scared off easy. We are so far off the pace it’s a joke. Players out of position, no effort, no skills, no hunger, no pride, no brains. Soft ive been for 50, I get u may have not enjoyed the success years as I have, but we r on the up...just hang on buddy.

www.bigfooty.com

Game Day - Rnd 5 - Carlton v Port Game Day Discussion

Good boy

www.bigfooty.com

Game Day - Rnd 5 - Carlton v Port Game Day Discussion

Cripps is diving for frees, Now JONES IS diving for frees. dark off.

www.bigfooty.com

But not the first time you miserable lot head down this road then claim of being bullied, what a ******* oxymoron

You and your kind are pathetic, miserable, agenda driven supporters, parasites that cling to doom, even if it hasn't eventuated and I will continue to highlight it especially if you want to fire the first shot my way

 

[NYCFC]

Ignorant rant:

I've been around long enough to have enjoyed being at the G for the 79 flag. But I'm just an idiot supporter with an overly simplistic view of the game, so my views are based on little else than life/business and non-football sporting experience.

But from the outside I can't help seeing the Carlton Football Club as a poor befuddled soul scratching his head wondering why the hell things aren't turning out the way they were supposed to.

We try a proven, experienced coach. That doesn't work out.

Put in a young, inexperienced coach, pointedly give him a very experienced ex-senior coach as mentor. Mentor leaves, doesn't get replaced. Interesting. Inexperienced coach doesn't work out.

Put in a slightly more experienced, but still young coach. No mentor. Jury's out, but current signs suggest it's not working out.

What is our model for the coaching setup? What do we believe in? Experience? Youth? Youth with experienced mentors? Experienced coach willing to take input from younger more contemporary assistants? Or do we lack the conviction to actually believe in a philosophy?

We have significant injuries year after year. Clearly bad luck. Or is it bad luck when it happens year after year? Does Brisbane just have a lot of good luck? Do we believe that we've been cursed? That we're just unlucky? Or do we know what is causing this, but just don't have the will to do something about it?

Player development. I'm just an idiot supporter, but I see Fogarty come in from Geelong, and I see a young player who has been taught how to play. And I watch our guys around the same age (to be fair, not live given where I live) and I don't see that.

Player empowerment. Who's running the show here? Is the club in the business of trying to keep players happy, but in doing so never giving them the winning culture I would assume most of them actually want? Was Teague appointed because he was popular amongst the playing group? I don't know, but from the outside it definitely looked like a factor. Why is it abundantly clear that Murphy will get to his 300th game no matter what? I would be amazed if there were compelling reasons to drop him from the team, and that actually happened.

Again, I'm a football simpleton but to me winning = happy, losing = unhappy and everything else is just a steaming pile of poo.

I wish I could see a club with a plan/plans. But I don't.

 

[agro]

This is what staggers me, the cherry picking of a side that haven't even gone through a stripped back rebuild and have been blooding kids for a number of years, but you already know that, yet you want to use it as a comparison to highlight one of your agendas. But even then you falsify the timeline

Why not use the likes of the Saints and Lions, where our timeline was ahead of their rebuilds as of the end of last year? Doesn't suit the agenda

As for my bookmarks, I stated we wouldn't win the spoon in 2019, not finish bottom 6 in 2020, despite your pessimistic clan suggesting we would

This year I stated we would make finals, we are 5 rounds in, so let's see how that pans out.

But I have posted mine in the appropriate thread, that's visible to everyone

The doomdayers stated the season was over in round 2, what would you call that prediction? Balanced? Others suggesting we would be 0-6, or 1-5, that's already been dispelled

Try and play the ball? Bit rich coming from you

Game Day - Rnd 5 - Carlton v Port Game Day Discussion

Mckay 2 touches Williamson only 4 and not helping defensively very much running around like a headless chook Pitt 4 not involved in link play at all and getting smashed by lycett Sps 4 touches - Parks out of the team and willo back, what a surprise SPS is asked to be a lockdown again looks sh*t...

www.bigfooty.com

Game Day - Rnd 5 - Carlton v Port Game Day Discussion

Mckay 2 touches Williamson only 4 and not helping defensively very much running around like a headless chook Pitt 4 not involved in link play at all and getting smashed by lycett Sps 4 touches - Parks out of the team and willo back, what a surprise SPS is asked to be a lockdown again looks sh*t...

www.bigfooty.com

Game Day - Rnd 5 - Carlton v Port Game Day Discussion

10 year member, I don’t get scared off easy. We are so far off the pace it’s a joke. Players out of position, no effort, no skills, no hunger, no pride, no brains. Soft ive been for 50, I get u may have not enjoyed the success years as I have, but we r on the up...just hang on buddy.

www.bigfooty.com

Game Day - Rnd 5 - Carlton v Port Game Day Discussion

Good boy

www.bigfooty.com

Game Day - Rnd 5 - Carlton v Port Game Day Discussion

Cripps is diving for frees, Now JONES IS diving for frees. dark off.

www.bigfooty.com

But not the first time you miserable lot head down this road then claim of being bullied, what a ******* oxymoron

You and your kind are pathetic, miserable, agenda driven supporters, parasites that cling to doom, even if it hasn't eventuated and I will continue to highlight it especially if you want to fire the first shot my way

You are a boring bombastic bully - whose just proven what you are!!!

Good For You.

Keep on shilling.

 

[Arr0w]

You are a boring bombastic bully - whose just proven what you are!!!

Good For You.

Keep on shilling.

And when challenged with the facts.. you have nothing

Keep looking in the mirror, that huge rear vision mirror

Keep targeting and I will respond in kind annie

The unholy alliance, what a pathetic lot

Done....for now

 

[Gethelred]

Why can we not keep players on the park?

The common link between 2008-2012 Ratten, 2016-2019 Bolton and now 2020-2021 Teague is the unavailability of on average a quarter of the list. Sometimes it's as high as 40-45%; sometimes, we've only got 4-5 people out, but that's for single weeks at a time before the next outbreak of knees and shoulders.

We've seen over the past 10 years the impact of keeping your best squad on the park is: the WB took full advantage of the first prefinals bye to get 5-6 players back to their firsts, and they turned that positive momentum into a flag. Richmond are deep now, but they weren't in 2017; an injury to Dusty, Cotchin, Prestia or Rance could very well have derailed them in that year, before the confidence legitimacy provides and the backup in Balta arrives. Hawthorn might've marketed their 'one in, one out' ethos, but it didn't bear real fruit as they kept their best list out there for the majority of their three premierships.

Sure, a club's depth is a sign of their progress, but more important almost is the ability to keep as close to the best 22 out there as often as possible. Brisbane built their rebuild on continuity; it's the real difference, beyond all else, between them and us.

So, what the * Carlton? What's going on in our rehab, conditioning, and our development that seems to have us landing wrong, coming away from tackles with broken bones or faces, knees or shoulders? Sure, some of these injuries can't be blamed on the club, but WHY the * can we not keep players on the park when it matters? Why has Brisbane, Richmond, WC had this incredible continuity of players where we have precisely the opposite?

And - more importantly - when is it going to be fixed???

You arguably have injuries to blame for both Ratten and Bolton's dismissals; both teams down on confidence, continuity and both teams destroyed before they could really fire a shot in their respective final years. If this is allowed to continue, we will see more coaches leaving, and more players retiring with middling to promising and heartbreaking careers.

 

[Zuribagger]

Defensive pressure has been a knock on our team. Have you ever been in a workplace where one guy/girl just doesn’t pull their weight. It affects everybody else too. You think “why should I bust my —- when he/she doesn’t”. That person is tolerated so there’s no point doing more than them.

It becomes the benchmark.

Good managers reprimand those people and weed them out because they know it is a cancer that destroys team morale and performance.

We know the culprits in our club. They are being tolerated but meanwhile the cancer spreads. After our unwavering support over the last twenty years, it’s very disappointing.

This is our biggest problem.

 

[TENACIOUS]

So who's our coach next year?

Throw some realistic contenders at me.

Marc Murphy

 

[Original Moody Blue]

This is what staggers me, the cherry picking of a side that haven't even gone through a stripped back rebuild and have been blooding kids for a number of years, but you already know that, yet you want to use it as a comparison to highlight one of your agendas. But even then you falsify the timeline

Sydney have played off in 5 GF's & won 2 all in 20 years. They have managed their lists well, have the right people in the right positions.
Carlton is in its 3rd or 4th rebuild, replaced 4 CEO's since 2006, 6 coaches and we are sitting at 2-3.
If you and your supporters believe the club is in fine fettle then, it does not matter what anybody else has to say, as it is an opinion.
Let's discuss again in Round 17, when we will all have a better idea of where we stand.

 

[Arr0w]

Sydney have played off in 5 GF's & won 2 all in 20 years. They have managed their lists well, have the right people in the right positions.
Carlton is in its 3rd or 4th rebuild, replaced 4 CEO's since 2006, 6 coaches and we are sitting at 2-3.
If you and your supporters believe the club is in fine fettle then, it does not matter what anybody else has to say, as it is an opinion.
Let's discuss again in Round 17, when we will all have a better idea of where we stand.

Really over this "20 year" bullshit, it has no bearing on this current group, none were around 20 years ago. This is the first true, strip and rebuild we have ever undertaken

Swans have been a great club for many years, but what they did wasn't a rebuild, as they have always drafted young talent, of course, having academy players makes it so much easier. But the season is still young, let's see if they can sustain it

Try and compare us to someone like the Saints rebuild, who missed finals in their 6th year, even the Lions with having an advantage with academy players, took 6 years to make finals

But only Cartlon seem to be lagging in timeline and progression in the eyes of the impatient

 

[Original Moody Blue]

Really over this "20 year" bullshit, it has no bearing on this current group, none were around 20 years ago. This is the first true, strip and rebuild we have ever undertaken

Swans have been a great club for many years, but what they did wasn't a rebuild, as they have always drafted young talent, of course, having academy players makes it so much easier. But the season is still young, let's see if they can sustain it

Try and compare us to someone like the Saints rebuild, who missed finals in their 6th year, even the Lions with having an advantage with academy players, took 6 years to make finals

But only Cartlon seem to be lagging in timeline and progression in the eyes of the impatient

This is the first true, strip and rebuild we have ever undertaken?? Well I seem to recall in 2002, we basically had no players, and had to start again courtesy of the AFL.

Then we drafted in 2007 to support Judd as he was going to win us a flag.

Then we topped up with list blockers under Ratten, and finally after it was staring the Board in the face, they decided to get rid all of the dead 9not that they had much of a choice) and reset.

Compare to Sydney who worked out how to draft, and top up their list. They will be successful for the next 10 years. Even St.Kilda made it to three Grand finals, before they imploded.

Frankly I am not interested in other clubs, their lists or anything else. Your arguments are nonsensical, and you are trying to defend the indefensible. Our Board and committee's have been abject failures for the past 20 years. For all the so-called business nous and skill they supposedly have, they know nothing about footy, or we would not be in this spot. We hired Brad Lloyd as head of footy, after his disastrous spell at Fremantle. His brother Matthew is trashing the club based on their recruiting, not their current performances, which is listless, shows no courage, tenacity or pride.

To show you how bad we are, even Paul Roos side stepped Carlton when they threw millions at him. He preferred the perennial losers in Melbourne, and he managed to turn them around before taking his money and heading off to Hawaii. Do we enquire whether he has blown his cash and perhaps throw a couple of million at him in the vain hope he coaches us?

We need a cleanout of the Board and a complete overhaul of the footy dept and recruiting at season's end.

 

[Arr0w]

This is the first true, strip and rebuild we have ever undertaken?? Well I seem to recall in 2002, we basically had no players, and had to start again courtesy of the AFL.

Then we drafted in 2007 to support Judd as he was going to win us a flag.

Then we topped up with list blockers under Ratten, and finally after it was staring the Board in the face, they decided to get rid all of the dead 9not that they had much of a choice) and reset.

Compare to Sydney who worked out how to draft, and top up their list. They will be successful for the next 10 years. Even St.Kilda made it to three Grand finals, before they imploded.

Frankly I am not interested in other clubs, their lists or anything else. Your arguments are nonsensical, and you are trying to defend the indefensible. Our Board and committee's have been abject failures for the past 20 years. For all the so-called business nous and skill they supposedly have, they know nothing about footy, or we would not be in this spot. We hired Brad Lloyd as head of footy, after his disastrous spell at Fremantle. His brother Matthew is trashing the club based on their recruiting, not their current performances, which is listless, shows no courage, tenacity or pride.

To show you how bad we are, even Paul Roos side stepped Carlton when they threw millions at him. He preferred the perennial losers in Melbourne, and he managed to turn them around before taking his money and heading off to Hawaii. Do we enquire whether he has blown his cash and perhaps throw a couple of million at him in the vain hope he coaches us?

We need a cleanout of the Board and a complete overhaul of the footy dept and recruiting at season's end.

You mean trading for French in 2002, then Clarke, Morrell, Harford, Johnsin, Teague, McGrath, Scotliand in 2003? That isn't investing in the draft

We didn't draft in 2007 to support Judd, we gave up a generational forward that is still in the game today

Swans were able to take Heeney with a late first, imagine us taking Weits with a late 1st. Again, they haven't achieved a thing since COLA ended

No no, Saints rebuild that started in 2013, not prior to that before the the expansion sides

Of course you aren't interested in other sides, yet you continue to cherry pick the likes of the Swans and Saints prior to their true rebuild

Love that we ignored money hungry Roos, he bailed the Demons prior to them breaking into the 8, yet even now they have achieved nothing

We don't need a clean out of the board, they don't kick, mark or tackle

We need Teague to tweak his gameplan, but that discussion might be beyond you

 

[Original Moody Blue]

You mean trading for French in 2002, then Clarke, Morrell, Harford, Johnsin, Teague, McGrath, Scotliand in 2003? That isn't investing in the draft

We didn't draft in 2007 to support Judd, we gave up a generational forward that is still in the game today

Swans were able to take Heeney with a late first, imagine us taking Weits with a late 1st. Again, they haven't achieved a thing since COLA ended

No no, Saints rebuild that started in 2013, not prior to that before the the expansion sides

Of course you aren't interested in other sides, yet you continue to cherry pick the likes of the Swans and Saints prior to their true rebuild

Love that we ignored money hungry Roos, he bailed the Demons prior to them breaking into the 8, yet even now they have achieved nothing

We don't need a clean out of the board, they don't kick, mark or tackle

We need Teague to tweak his gameplan, but that discussion might be beyond you

Well I accept you are entitled to your opinion. Whether you use the draft, or recruit or use a ouija board, the fact is that every club, with the exception of Essendon & Melbourne has outperformed us in the past 20 years. Carlton was slow to understand the draft, how it worked and what you could do with it. The Board and Committees were still stuck in the 80's. You are right about Judd, but that was a dice that had to be roled. Pointless having a great forward, if you can't the ball to him because your midfielders are no good. The correct decision was made with him.

One thing most analysts have commented about is the poor disposal and lack of pressure. Our disposal and kicking for goal has been appalling and our pressure has been applied in fits and start. It is good against the bottom teams, but disappears when the opposition stands up and gives it back.

If Teague does not tweek his game plan then the club has other issues to deal with. If Teague fails to make the finals and they replace him, Cripps in 2022 will play under his 5th coach in 9 years. Which coach? Lyon, Voss, Sumich, Pike or perhaps Worsfold? If he leaves then what are the implications for Walsh? Every club will be coming hard after him after seeing the effect Treloar has had with the Dogs.

Whatever you say about Roos, and I do agree, they are currently sitting undefeated and will almost certainly play finals and/or finish top 4.

 

[Gethelred]

Nathan Brown

22

Nathan Brown

Age

35

Ht

196cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.8

2star

K

3.9

2star

HB

4.9

4star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

6.4

2star

K

3.2

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

: 1.2 tackles a game.
David King: 1.4 tackles a game.
Wayne Carey: 1.2 tackles a game.
Jonathan Brown: 1.1 tackles a game.
Matthew Lloyd: 1.1 tackles a game.
Billy Brownless: 0.8 tackles a game.
Nick Riewoldt: 1.5 tackles a game.
Dermott Brereton: 0.8 tackles a game.
Jason Dunstall: 0.6 tackles a game.

Now, why have I made this list?

The above constitute a significant mixture of the player commentary at AFL level. The above have had quite a bit to say concerning us recently, and have in particular highlighted our defense and our lack of tackling.

I would posit that this entire list is made up of forwards and key forwards. I would posit that what they know of defense they know of watching the game, not from playing it. I would posit what they know of tackling they've been told by other people, that it's 'important now'. I would posit that what they know about defending the goal line or marking a player they know from their career post footy more than they know from playing.

Now, does this make their assertions incorrect? By no means. But it highlights a bit of hypocrisy amidst the current commentary group, and - if we're frank - an expectation for modern players that they didn't hold for themselves.

"But the game has changed!" Sure. Does that excuse a 0.6 or a 0.8 tackling average? Matthew Lloyd, Nick Riewoldt, Jonothan Brown and Nathan Brown

22

Nathan Brown

Age

35

Ht

196cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.8

2star

K

3.9

2star

HB

4.9

4star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

6.4

2star

K

3.2

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

retired this side of 2000, after the tackle became a feature of the game it is today. Does it excuse the fact that the very people we are supposed to listen to and treat as experts in AFL level defense were not defenders?

Why are no AFL level defenders on this list? Oh, that's right: they become coaches, development officers, talent scouts. Or do I have to list the people in AFL clubs in footy roles who were either midfielders or defenders?

They are the criticized, not the critics.

 

[gab213]

Nathan Brown: 1.2 tackles a game.
David King: 1.4 tackles a game.
Wayne Carey: 1.2 tackles a game.
Jonathan Brown: 1.1 tackles a game.
Matthew Lloyd: 1.1 tackles a game.
Billy Brownless: 0.8 tackles a game.
Nick Riewoldt: 1.5 tackles a game.
Dermott Brereton: 0.8 tackles a game.
Jason Dunstall: 0.6 tackles a game.

Now, why have I made this list?

The above constitute a significant mixture of the player commentary at AFL level. The above have had quite a bit to say concerning us recently, and have in particular highlighted our defense and our lack of tackling.

I would posit that this entire list is made up of forwards and key forwards. I would posit that what they know of defense they know of watching the game, not from playing it. I would posit what they know of tackling they've been told by other people, that it's 'important now'. I would posit that what they know about defending the goal line or marking a player they know from their career post footy more than they know from playing.

Now, does this make their assertions incorrect? By no means. But it highlights a bit of hypocrisy amidst the current commentary group, and - if we're frank - an expectation for modern players that they didn't hold for themselves.

"But the game has changed!" Sure. Does that excuse a 0.6 or a 0.8 tackling average? Matthew Lloyd, Nick Riewoldt, Jonothan Brown and Nathan Brown retired this side of 2000, after the tackle became a feature of the game it is today. Does it excuse the fact that the very people we are supposed to listen to and treat as experts in AFL level defense were not defenders?

Why are no AFL level defenders on this list? Oh, that's right: they become coaches, development officers, talent scouts. Or do I have to list the people in AFL clubs in footy roles who were either midfielders or defenders?

They are the criticized, not the critics.

You need to go back to the eras that those players were part of and see how many tackles were laid in a game, you can't discount the fact that the game was different.

Fierce hip and shoulders were a legitimate way to attack the player with the ball as well in those days, the bump was well and truly a thing and would have been the first option before a tackle for some of those you mentioned.

Average tackles per game in 1988 - 23.2, 2021 - 56.2

Comparing averages across different eras never works.