Ins and Outs vs. Essendon

[hotpie]

Play Heath for Rowe. C2 is injured. Walker should come in for him. .

Not sure Walker's fit, I think he only played half a game on the weekend.

 

[hotpie]

Agree re Rowe, he needs to recover his polish, and hone his skills in the seconds. H Shaw or J Cloke for him.

No way I'd drop Trav, he just needs to keep presenting every week. However I would move him around the ground, into the ruck and also CHB. Maxwell forward is a good suggestion. We need to develop versatile talls.

Leon Davis has to go. He has no future at Collingwood. I'd rather keep Egan, and play him on a wing in a defensive sweeping role where he can create play. However with one possession last week this is unlikely, so Yakka and B Shaw to come in for them.

Jason Cloke must play and be given another go. He has the best form of any of our reserves. I dont even care if he plays in the forward line, as long as its well outside the 50.

 

[rychenroller]

Rowe had 17 possessions and no clangers on saturday night.

 

[MarkT]

No clangers? That's more to do with the definition if that's the case because he put up some ordinary kicks again.

Hotpie I don't want to drop Travis a suck but he git hurt and he is 18. I hope we learn from what we did to Fraser. If he isn't hurt enough to miss the game I'd still rest him. Not play him at Willi but rest him so he can see the season out. Makes it hard if Walker isn't fit though.

 

[rychenroller]

No clangers? That's more to do with the definition if that's the case because he put up some ordinary kicks again.

Clangers = kick directly to opponent or directly to opponents advantage, something that he has been guilty of for a few weeks. I'm not sure how many effective disposals but at least he didnt turn it over at all, which was my point.

 

[MarkT]

If you kick to the advantage of the opposition in a contested situation that is poor disposal. If you float a ball and it doesn't hit your player that is a poor disposal. O'Bree does that 12 times a game. I don't much care about the clanger definition, I saw some ordinary disposal from Rowe and he does it every week. He has some promise but unless he kicks much better under pressure we should trade him before he is well and truly found out.

I am sick and tired of watching Collingwood kick itself out of games week in week out. We have far too many poor kicks in the side. I can tolerate Lica because he does a heck of a lot of good work. I can tolerate Johnson because he keeps improving and he runs with pace and has some grunt, all of which we lack. That's it. That's as much as we can accommodate. Shape up or ship. We accept too much mediocrity and it has made us a meek, poorly skilled laughing stock.

 

[rychenroller]

Rowe's attributes when he first started playing were his pace and skills either side. But lets face it, apart from Bucks, Sir Scott and Clement, there arent many who are guilt free of turnovers. If you are willing to try a Shaw in place of Rowe and have him turn it over....so be it. I still think Rowe is doing ok, he bobs up for the odd goal or 2, gives us pace around the ground.

I'm not defending him as such, I wouldnt care if he was dropped for Shaw this week. I think he is at least a 100 gamer anyway, whenever they come. But to single out Rowe for his turnovers, when O'Bree doubles him every week as you say, is a little unfair. O'Bree may get 30 possessions but when 12 of em go directly to opponents advantage and 5 or 6 directly to a goal...well, you see what I'm getting at.

 

[hotpie]

Difference between Rowe and O'Bree:

1. O'Bree has been good this year and his disposal has been excellent (by his low standards), last week being the exception where he reverted to his old ways
2. O'Bree is an old dog who wont learn new tricks. Dropping to brush up his kicking skills will serve no purpose.
3. Rowe is young enough to learn the importance of good footskills. Dropping him will be a wake-up call for him, knowing that he has to lift his performance to make the grade.
4. Rowe's in pretty good form in terms of actually getting the pill. A couple of weeks for WIlly wont do any harm.

 

[rychenroller]

I dont see how dropping someone can improve their kicking skills or disposal skills in general. Rowe needs to learn to dispose of it under pressure right? If you drop him to the seconds, there will be an immediate decrease in pressure on the ball carrier and absolutely no doubt his disposal will be better. He'll be dropped to Willy, get 30 touches, 20 effective, kick 3 goals, be brought back into the seniors and be back to the same.

The only way to improve disposal under pressure is to be subjected to it. Simulated pressure at training isnt that effective, you still know you arent going to get crunched by a team mate. Same with the VFL, you ahve an extra half second to do something meaningful with the ball and it makes all the difference. For the same reason you cant drop O'Bree to brush up on his kicking skills, you cant drop Rowe. The most important thing is he gets it, and time in the seniors under real pressure to improve his skills. Brisbane apllied massive pressure to us on Saturday night but he didnt directly turn it over. Thats what he needs in my opinion.

 

[hotpie]

I dont see how dropping someone can improve their kicking skills or disposal skills in general.

Working on technique in the slower paced VFL has to be of benefit. Then when you've got it right, play seniors again and apply what you've learned in more intense situations.

When you have skill deficiencies its sometimes hard to correct them under the intense pressure of AFL footy, where opposition sides target you if you have a weakness.

 

[rychenroller]

Working on technique in the slower paced VFL has to be of benefit. Then when you've got it right, play seniors again and apply what you've learned in more intense situations.

The prob here with Rowe is that what was supposed to be his strength. Good disposal, long accurate kick, good pace...technique is not his prob. Technique is something you have to work on at training, pressure is something that can only be found in a game. But same as before...i dont mind seeing him dropped for Shaw..just not 100% convinced of the benefit for him and his developement.

 

[hotpie]

Technique is something that can also be easily lost at the highest level due to pressure and needs to be relearned in a more relaxed and lower intensity environment. Rewarding his poor skills by selecting him every week just sends the message that near enough is good enough.

Regardless, I think he'll be the last bloke selected or the last bloke dropped. At the end of the day it will depend upon availability of fit players.

 

[MarkT]

Rowe's attributes when he first started playing were his pace and skills either side. But lets face it, apart from Bucks, Sir Scott and Clement, there arent many who are guilt free of turnovers. If you are willing to try a Shaw in place of Rowe and have him turn it over....so be it. I still think Rowe is doing ok, he bobs up for the odd goal or 2, gives us pace around the ground.

I'm not defending him as such, I wouldnt care if he was dropped for Shaw this week. I think he is at least a 100 gamer anyway, whenever they come. But to single out Rowe for his turnovers, when O'Bree doubles him every week as you say, is a little unfair. O'Bree may get 30 possessions but when 12 of em go directly to opponents advantage and 5 or 6 directly to a goal...well, you see what I'm getting at.

You won’t ever see me defend O'bree. I have a wish to see his good form continue and for him to be traded at the peak of his price at the end of the year because he is a poor kick and over the course of his career he has been a very disappointing player. If he kicks on somewhere else so be it but he will only kick on as an under paced poorly skilled ball getter and we can find one of those under a rock at Williamstown if we want to.

My issue with Rowe is exactly that he ahs promise but we accept mediocrity too easily and it has to stop or we will continue to produce it. Rowe’s disposal is mediocre and has been since his first game. It isn’t always bad which is what makes me thing he can improve it quickly if he has to and we should make him have to do it. Heath needs a chance. We need to wok out whether he is or can be good enough.

I’m sock of having a soft, slow, poorly skilled team. I wish we would made a stand on each of these facets now.

 

[pocketrocket#24]

Mark T i agree almost completely with your synopsis for the rest of the year, apart form walker. i think trav could do with a rest, even if its just from the ones and he plays for willy. surely its time to give yakka another run, and probably bring back colely for a stint, johnno doesnt seem right.

 

[Presti_is_god]

C3 will play.

 

[Lestat]

If you kick to the advantage of the opposition in a contested situation that is poor disposal. If you float a ball and it doesn't hit your player that is a poor disposal. O'Bree does that 12 times a game. I don't much care about the clanger definition, I saw some ordinary disposal from Rowe and he does it every week. He has some promise but unless he kicks much better under pressure we should trade him before he is well and truly found out.

I am sick and tired of watching Collingwood kick itself out of games week in week out. We have far too many poor kicks in the side. I can tolerate Lica because he does a heck of a lot of good work. I can tolerate Johnson because he keeps improving and he runs with pace and has some grunt, all of which we lack. That's it. That's as much as we can accommodate. Shape up or ship. We accept too much mediocrity and it has made us a meek, poorly skilled laughing stock.

Great post...I totally agree 100%.