Inside the camp that brought down the Adelaide Crows

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JAKLAUGHING

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I love that 3 years later this is still talked about. Hopefully in another 3 years they can re-hash it while Crows are still wallowing down the foot of the ladder haha
The Crows have a get to gether and re do it all again...
 

JAKLAUGHING

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A few observations that strike me as an historian about all this. Notice the mysterious tattooed "Wolfgang" who appears to be some sort of version of the Biggest Loser's Commando with a (in the context of all this military/style SAS bullshit) sounds a bit different to what I'd imagined. I thought these people were New Age shysters, and the appropriation of the talking stick and the tepees has that vibe. But the dagger and the tatts and the Germanic name all has a disturbing sort of neo-Nazi vibe (which no doubt went down well with the Indigenous players). The whoie "break them down and reconstruct them as a soldier" is an American military tradition which actually goes back to the Revolutionary War. Washington hired a Prussian major to train the Continental Army, using techniques that Frederick the Great had made famous - notorious for their brutality. The American military has been fond of this sort of stuff ever since. 18th Century armies were recruited from the underclass - often criminals were given the choice of gaol or the army. Anyone who's watched the first half of Full Metal Jacket knows how it "works". So what you start with is an already flawed process based on extreme hierarchy, designed to create killing machines, refracted through a bunch of b/s charlatans.
I love the sound of this sort of talk early in the morning! ;)
 

JAKLAUGHING

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how anyone in their right mind could think that sort of program, run by unqualified people, and which effectively excluded the medico and the welfare person could be beneficial is amazing.
Essendon say hold my beer...
 

Wooden Robot

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Interesting ... played footy back in South Australia back in the day and commando camps were very in vogue at the time, albeit I'm talking late 90s-2000s. Must be a very South Australian thing (as much as I loved living over there).
I had blokes running over my stomach all weekend and we were carrying huge logs around as groups.
I could no - no matter how much convincing and persuading I was given - see any relevance to football and how this would make me more resilient than I already was (not to mention we sustained a few injuries out of it).
But it came down to obsession. Our club had an absolute obsession with beating one particular rival club and it was all we talked about at training, and after matches. It was sickening and detrimental to be honest, though few realised it and even fewer acknowledged.
Come five weeks out from finals we're training three nights a week, then a week before and during finals it's three nights a week plus a team gathering/meeting Friday nights. This we were told was the only way we would beat this other rival (who duly went out and won the GF in a canter, while we fell short of a GF berth). Total obsession. And funnily enough, the rival we wanted to beat were just so down to earth and not doing half the work we were. I'd never been so fit, but was checked out.
Adelaide seem like they were obsessed with us, paying scant attention to the fact there are plenty of other great teams about.
 

Dr Tigris

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Interesting ... played footy back in South Australia back in the day and commando camps were very in vogue at the time, albeit I'm talking late 90s-2000s. Must be a very South Australian thing (as much as I loved living over there).
I had blokes running over my stomach all weekend and we were carrying huge logs around as groups.
I could no - no matter how much convincing and persuading I was given - see any relevance to football and how this would make me more resilient than I already was (not to mention we sustained a few injuries out of it).
But it came down to obsession. Our club had an absolute obsession with beating one particular rival club and it was all we talked about at training, and after matches. It was sickening and detrimental to be honest, though few realised it and even fewer acknowledged.
Come five weeks out from finals we're training three nights a week, then a week before and during finals it's three nights a week plus a team gathering/meeting Friday nights. This we were told was the only way we would beat this other rival (who duly went out and won the GF in a canter, while we fell short of a GF berth). Total obsession. And funnily enough, the rival we wanted to beat were just so down to earth and not doing half the work we were. I'd never been so fit, but was checked out.
Adelaide seem like they were obsessed with us, paying scant attention to the fact there are plenty of other great teams about.
good story. If your goal is to beat one rival, then you might do that. If your goal is to win the competition you'll do different things.

And the whole super tough macho hero crap I hate. Look at how many wars the Americans have won, that have stayed won, in the last 30 years. None! Their military is all kill people and be the toughest and have the best kit. But they don't have a strategy and cannot win the peace. Their goal should have been to create societies that were not bloodthirsty and wanted to kill Americans. Killing people and holding them down via force is a good way to achieve the opposite. My father in law talked about in Vietnam creating 'friendship at the end of a gun'. Whilst you're pointing a gun at people they love you. As soon as you walk away they hate you.

Anyway, Adelaide wanted to create super warriors. And thought that instead of spending years building that they could do it in some half baked weekend of pain and humiliation. They succeeded in building - the bottom team in the AFL.
 

Rayzorwire

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And the whole super tough macho hero crap I hate. Look at how many wars the Americans have won, that have stayed won, in the last 30 years. None! Their military is all kill people and be the toughest and have the best kit. But they don't have a strategy and cannot win the peace. Their goal should have been to create societies that were not bloodthirsty and wanted to kill Americans. Killing people and holding them down via force is a good way to achieve the opposite. My father in law talked about in Vietnam creating 'friendship at the end of a gun'. Whilst you're pointing a gun at people they love you. As soon as you walk away they hate you.
The stuff I've seen with the death metal blaring in tanks while they fire like they're playing a computer game at 'insurgent ragheads' on foot just makes you feel ill. Haven't learned anything from the days they'd collect Japanese and Vietnamese body parts as hunting trophies.

IMO, it's really not possible to socialise soldiers trained to think like that back into society.
 

roacheee

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The stuff I've seen with the death metal blaring in tanks while they fire like they're playing a computer game at 'insurgent ragheads' on foot just makes you feel ill. Haven't learned anything from the days they'd collect Japanese and Vietnamese body parts as hunting trophies.

IMO, it's really not possible to socialise soldiers trained to think like that back into society.
Then you're against allowing african child soldiers into Australia as well?
 

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Rayzorwire

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Then you're against allowing african child soldiers into Australia as well?
I don't think we should take in any more migrants or refugees until we can say beyond all doubt that we're doing what is right for every single person we already have.

That doesn't really answer the thrust of your question, so to extend the hypothetical to a point where the above has been achieved, I would say that I believe in small government and that the Federal government's prime responsibility is to protect the citizenry.

In virtually all circumstances that wouldn't include allowing African child soldiers into the country. In circumstances where the child was very young (I've seen child soldiers as young as 5-6), had a good stable parent/family to provide ongoing support and was assessed as having good potential of rehabilitation, then perhaps there's a case to be made for accepting them as a refugee.
 

roacheee

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Aug 25, 2015
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I don't think we should take in any more migrants or refugees until we can say beyond all doubt that we're doing what is right for every single person we already have.

That doesn't really answer the thrust of your question, so to extend the hypothetical to a point where the above has been achieved, I would say that I believe in small government and that the Federal government's prime responsibility is to protect the citizenry.

In virtually all circumstances that wouldn't include allowing African child soldiers into the country. In circumstances where the child was very young (I've seen child soldiers as young as 5-6), had a good stable parent/family to provide ongoing support and was assessed as having good potential of rehabilitation, then perhaps there's a case to be made for accepting them as a refugee.
Interesting
 

SunshineBoy

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good story. If your goal is to beat one rival, then you might do that. If your goal is to win the competition you'll do different things.

And the whole super tough macho hero crap I hate. Look at how many wars the Americans have won, that have stayed won, in the last 30 years. None! Their military is all kill people and be the toughest and have the best kit. But they don't have a strategy and cannot win the peace. Their goal should have been to create societies that were not bloodthirsty and wanted to kill Americans. Killing people and holding them down via force is a good way to achieve the opposite. My father in law talked about in Vietnam creating 'friendship at the end of a gun'. Whilst you're pointing a gun at people they love you. As soon as you walk away they hate you.

Anyway, Adelaide wanted to create super warriors. And thought that instead of spending years building that they could do it in some half baked weekend of pain and humiliation. They succeeded in building - the bottom team in the AFL.
If they really wanted super warriors , they should have gone down the druggies path :p ;)
 

Dr Awkward

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Pretty shocking and immature stuff. No wonder all the good players have got outta there.

Putting aside all the reasons why it was inappropriate, as if that military crap actually improves people as footballers.
 

Punt Road Feral

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Interesting ... played footy back in South Australia back in the day and commando camps were very in vogue at the time, albeit I'm talking late 90s-2000s. Must be a very South Australian thing (as much as I loved living over there).
I had blokes running over my stomach all weekend and we were carrying huge logs around as groups.
I could no - no matter how much convincing and persuading I was given - see any relevance to football and how this would make me more resilient than I already was (not to mention we sustained a few injuries out of it).
But it came down to obsession. Our club had an absolute obsession with beating one particular rival club and it was all we talked about at training, and after matches. It was sickening and detrimental to be honest, though few realised it and even fewer acknowledged.
Come five weeks out from finals we're training three nights a week, then a week before and during finals it's three nights a week plus a team gathering/meeting Friday nights. This we were told was the only way we would beat this other rival (who duly went out and won the GF in a canter, while we fell short of a GF berth). Total obsession. And funnily enough, the rival we wanted to beat were just so down to earth and not doing half the work we were. I'd never been so fit, but was checked out.
Adelaide seem like they were obsessed with us, paying scant attention to the fact there are plenty of other great teams about.
Good post and really it can be applicable to many aspects of life ie work.

If people enjoy themselves and have confidence in themselves and team, they generally perform very well.

Many times I’ve seen at local footy level after a bad loss; reset, maybe get on the piss with the team and try and bring the enjoyment back. Come the first training session back the place is vibrant and buzzing to improve.

If you do the opposite and go down the punishments route, the enjoyment goes out window and the rut sets in.
 

JAKLAUGHING

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Good post and really it can be applicable to many aspects of life ie work.

If people enjoy themselves and have confidence in themselves and team, they generally perform very well.

Many times I’ve seen at local footy level after a bad loss; reset, maybe get on the piss with the team and try and bring the enjoyment back. Come the first training session back the place is vibrant and buzzing to improve.

If you do the opposite and go down the punishments route, the enjoyment goes out window and the rut sets in.
Do something!!! Kennedy and Barassi both say hi...
 

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