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kane249

New cup, who dis?
Oct 27, 2006
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Im sorry but I keep seeing this argument being made and I just don't agree with it.

Where does all this "Fyfe is the best player in the game" stuff keeping coming from? A couple of years ago I would have agreed with you, but after breaking his leg Fyfe has gone MASSIVELY downhill.

Good in the air, cant kick for sh*t. Perpetually named in Freo's top contributors because the rest of the team are so sh*t.

Serious question: how would Fyfe today break into our midfield? I could see him replacing Masten or Redden, but that's about it.

Is Fyfe a good player? Unquestionably yes. Best player running around today? No way.
Fyfe's last AA gig was 2015, injuries have played a part no doubt but that was a surprising stat for me
 

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RookiePick

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 13, 2014
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The leg break definitely impacted Fyfe. He was unquestionably in the top 2 or 3 mids around his Brownlow. Since the break leg break he has really been a rich man's Ben Cunnington, cheap shots and all.
 

Dazzler10

Premiership Player
Apr 30, 2015
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Shuey's not as good as Fyfe - that's a fallacy

He's in better form and I'd argue having a better season. But that is where it ends.

Fyfe is in the argument to be the best player in the game - Shuey isn't.

Just because we are a better team, doesn't make all of our players (or the supporters) genius.
You started by saying that Shuey not being as good as Fyfe, is false. So in other words Shuey is as good as Fyfe.

But then you proceeded to say that Fyfe is better than Shuey.

Either I'm missing something, or you don't understand what fallacy means. ??
 

The Falcon Strike

Hall of Famer
Nov 18, 2008
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I refuse to label a player who is one of the worst kicks of the football in the competition as the best player in the game.

Fyfe is a bull and an absolute beast in the contest but kicking is the fundamental skill of the sport.
No it isn't

The fact that 4 of the last 5 brownlow medallists are poor kicks highlights that.

The best players are the ones who can turn a contested situation into an uncontested situation in their team's advantage.

Many agree Nic Naitanui is our most influential player - he certainly put on a show on the weekend - how many lace out kicks did he have?

How many has he ever had?

The only fundamental in football is effort.
 

woosha24

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Apr 5, 2015
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squashface

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 26, 2012
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Dangerfield, Fyfe, Mitchell, Gawn & Priddis

All have won either MVPs, Brownlows or AFLCA awards.

Who meets the fundamental skill of being able to kick?
Thoughts on Patrick McGinnity?

Can’t question his effort and his foot skills are woeful, therefore if the only fundamental skill in AFL is effort then he must be one of the best players to grace the game?
 

woosha24

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Dangerfield, Fyfe, Mitchell, Gawn & Priddis

All have won either MVPs, Brownlows or AFLCA awards.

Who meets the fundamental skill of being able to kick?
Im not arguing that these players aren't good. Im arguing that, while effort is certainly required, if its the only attribute you value then you get the FFC.

Lets flip this around: why do you think Fyfe is the best player in the game today? What is he doing better than anyone else in his position on the ground? Not what HAS he done better in PREVIOUS years. What is he doing THIS YEAR, right now?
 

woosha24

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Thoughts on Patrick McGinnity?

Can’t question his effort and his foot skills are woeful, therefore if the only fundamental skill in AFL is effort then he must be one of the best players to grace the game?
Tom Swift? He tried and tried his little heart out, but he was still sh*t.
 

The Falcon Strike

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Im not arguing that these players aren't good. Im arguing that, while effort is certainly required, if its the only attribute you value then you get the FFC.

Lets flip this around: why do you think Fyfe is the best player in the game today? What is he doing better than anyone else in his position on the ground? No what HAS he done better in PREVIOUS years. What is he doing THIS YEAR?
Nice way of trying to misinterpret what I said. I didn't say effort is all I valued at all. I said I believed it was the only pre-requisite.

There are many skills in our game - to be competitive you have to look at the entire skillset someone brings to a team. Simply claiming someone can't kick, can't mark or can't handball and then therefore they aren't still great - completely ignores what they actually CAN do.

It's why those who bag NN for not taking more marks or more possessions make fools of themselves. It would be like bagging Tony Lockett for not getting enough goal assists.

You were called out on your statement "kicking is the fundamental skill of the sport ". The best players as awarded by either coaches, players or umpires appear to disagree with that statement.
 

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woosha24

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Nice way of trying to misinterpret what I said. I didn't say effort is all I valued at all. I said I believed it was the only pre-requisite.

There are many skills in our game - to be competitive you have to look at the entire skillset someone brings to a team. Simply claiming someone can't kick, can't mark or can't handball and then therefore they aren't still great - completely ignores what they actually CAN do.

It's why those who bag NN for not taking more marks or more possessions make fools of themselves. It would be like bagging Tony Lockett for not getting enough goal assists.

You were called out on your statement "kicking is the fundamental skill of the sport ". The best players as awarded by either coaches, players or umpires appear to disagree with that statement.
That wasn't my statement. I think you've got me mixed up with Squash.

Again though, why is Fyfe currently better than Shuey in 2019? Defend your argument: what is Fyfe doing that makes him the better player?
 

squashface

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 26, 2012
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Comprehension isn't a great strength is it?
My point is a player shouldn’t be considered the best in the game if they can’t kick.

For example, the only thing holding back Dylan Shiel from being a top 5 mid is his footskills.

There are a collection of other skills that will make you a very good player and potentially a Brownlow Medalist, but when the entire sport is revolves around kicking to targets who kick to other targets who kick goals to win, kicking is the most important skill.

We won the flag off the back of this last year, Hawthorn won a 3peat off the back of this and Fremantle lost a Grand Final off the back of this. Whilst you will always have exceptions (Richmond, Bulldogs etc) more often than not, the best teams in the comp are the ones that can hit a target consistently.
 

The Falcon Strike

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Again though, why is Fyfe currently better than Shuey in 2019? Defend your argument: what is Fyfe doing that makes him the better player?
I've already stated I think Shuey is having a better year.

That doesn't make him a better player - it makes him in better form.

I judge a players worth over a body of work - not just a season.

Finch is batting better than Steve Smith at the moment - doesn't mean he's a better batsman.
 

wce4premiership

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Dec 18, 2005
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Fyfe hasn't been the best player in the league for 4 years. I won't argue that Shuey is better, but I definitely wouldn't trade the two. Shuey's one of my favourite defensive players and one of my favourite offensive players. He works both ways with proper intent, not some fake desire to appear to be chasing.

Both players are tough, both can grab it clean off the deck, both can break tackles with ease. Fyfe is ten times the aerialist that Shuey is but Shuey is better with the ball in hand. He's a better kick off both feet, faster accelerator, arguably a stronger tackler and has better vision. Fyfe is harder to push off the line, more dangerous isolated forward and can relieve pressure from average kicks by winning the contest from out of position.

Fyfe is physically stronger due to pure size hence Yeo being one of the only people on our list who can line up on him.

Both can turn games through willpower and barging through others.

Fyfe has had the better career that's for sure, but Shuey is a big game player, wouldn't trade him for the world. I don't think Fyfe is the best in the league and hasn't been for a while. I'd say he's top 20 for sure depending on the weight people give to different assets of the game.
 

HoneyBadger35

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Aug 11, 2011
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I agree, he's pretty measured and isn't a players' sycophant like most football journalists.

Honestly, I wish they charged 10 years ago and funnelled the money into more quality journalism. The fact that The West is now in bed with Murdoch is revolting.

On a side note, it cracks me up when Dockers supporters go on about 'The West Eagle' or whatever they call it. I don't think there is a single Eagles supporter at the paper.
Not sure if they’ve added any writers recently, but O’Donoghue and Butler are Essendon, Duffield is Freo. Not sure who Bridget Lacy supports. Plus they’ve always got Nez on every Fox show leading the cause. Freo fans seem to hate Basil as though he’s an Eagles mouthpiece, when in reality in think just everyone hates Basil.

Quite good banter really.
 

equiv_clearly

Club Legend
Apr 30, 2013
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Not sure if they’ve added any writers recently, but O’Donoghue and Butler are Essendon, Duffield is Freo. Not sure who Bridget Lacy supports. Plus they’ve always got Nez on every Fox show leading the cause. Freo fans seem to hate Basil as though he’s an Eagles mouthpiece, when in reality in think just everyone hates Basil.

Quite good banter really.
I'm pretty sure Lacy is Freo as well, but I don't think she works there anymore.

And ya I doubt Basil is an Eagles fan. I think he's like Cometti and just goes for west Perth.

Really WC supporters in the media are all pretty terrible. Braun's alright on Aunty but that's about it.
 

FKASC

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May 28, 2017
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Shuey's not as good as Fyfe - that's a fallacy

He's in better form and I'd argue having a better season. But that is where it ends.

Fyfe is in the argument to be the best player in the game - Shuey isn't.

Just because we are a better team, doesn't make all of our players (or the supporters) genius.
Yeah it’s comments like that which make us look dumb.

It’s always the players with unreliable kicking that suddenly become spuds to opposition supporters.
 
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