Agent93
NinetyThree
- Sep 10, 2010
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Yeah, bit sus about that. I'd argue Shep has been our best or second best defender over the past two seasons.
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Insightful Media Coverage
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Don’t champion data know that Nicnat is fat?
What I like about Champion Data is that they have the higher level stats that show what we already know about Naitanui when we watch him- when he’s out there, our team plays better. He impacts the game so heavily in our favour that teams wait until he is off the ground to even attempt their own centre bounce strategies (there was a good episode of I think the Don’t Argue podcast where Ben Dixon talked about his discussions with opposition analysts about how pointless it seems to strategise when he’s in the ruck, just go full on defensive).
Of course I don’t think he’s the best player in the league, but he scores faster than any other player when he’s on the ground- the fact he only plays 60% of the game has to be weighted against him, but that’s a result of his ongoing injuries. When he was AA in 2012 he was playing 80% of game time which is more typical of a ruckman in a 2 ruck setup.
You can argue about Champion Data’s rankings and weightings forever, which is part of the fun of it. But they look at what indicators win matches, and despite Naitanui’s modest marks and kicks tally (which upset the more simple minded footy fans) he dominates things like ground ball gets, hitout win %, score launches from the ruck, contested possessions and clearances, and all the other things that are sometimes easier to see than to categorise.
What they have always struggled with, and every sport does, is the defensive indicators. McGovern does brilliantly because he takes so many intercept marks. But when Sheppard negates a contest against Robbie Grey, or causes a stoppage in a one on one against Jordan DeGoey, or plays so tightly on Michael Walters that the ball doesn’t even head his way, those are much harder to put a value on.
In the end you can read into stats what you want to. But anyone trying to develop their own statistical model of player ratings will find just as many players that don’t seem to fit where the public rates them. It’s an exercise that takes a lot of development for not much general acceptance, because you’re trying to fit one of the most complex sports that relies on a whole team and coaching strategies into a few numbers. But the exercise is still worth it, there’s plenty of value to find.
What I like about Champion Data is that they have the higher level stats that show what we already know about Naitanui when we watch him- when he’s out there, our team plays better. He impacts the game so heavily in our favour that teams wait until he is off the ground to even attempt their own centre bounce strategies (there was a good episode of I think the Don’t Argue podcast where Ben Dixon talked about his discussions with opposition analysts about how pointless it seems to strategise when he’s in the ruck, just go full on defensive).
Of course I don’t think he’s the best player in the league, but he scores faster than any other player when he’s on the ground- the fact he only plays 60% of the game has to be weighted against him, but that’s a result of his ongoing injuries. When he was AA in 2012 he was playing 80% of game time which is more typical of a ruckman in a 2 ruck setup.
You can argue about Champion Data’s rankings and weightings forever, which is part of the fun of it. But they look at what indicators win matches, and despite Naitanui’s modest marks and kicks tally (which upset the more simple minded footy fans) he dominates things like ground ball gets, hitout win %, score launches from the ruck, contested possessions and clearances, and all the other things that are sometimes easier to see than to categorise.
What they have always struggled with, and every sport does, is the defensive indicators. McGovern does brilliantly because he takes so many intercept marks. But when Sheppard negates a contest against Robbie Grey, or causes a stoppage in a one on one against Jordan DeGoey, or plays so tightly on Michael Walters that the ball doesn’t even head his way, those are much harder to put a value on.
In the end you can read into stats what you want to. But anyone trying to develop their own statistical model of player ratings will find just as many players that don’t seem to fit where the public rates them. It’s an exercise that takes a lot of development for not much general acceptance, because you’re trying to fit one of the most complex sports that relies on a whole team and coaching strategies into a few numbers. But the exercise is still worth it, there’s plenty of value to find.
There's an article in the HS today about Dermie having another surgery on his back.
This part caught my attention though.
I was listening on the radio and remember Mal Brown was doing special comments.
"Once John Worsfold hit Brereton so hard in Perth that when he got up gasping for breath and literally couldn’t see straight.
“Directly in the middle of my vision I was looking at a black orb. It was like staring into a ceiling light, I had a black orb where I was trying to find the ball. I had to look off centre then use my peripheral vision so I could see the ball coming in. That was the closest I came to being knocked out.”
This part caught my attention though.
I was listening on the radio and remember Mal Brown was doing special comments.
"Once John Worsfold hit Brereton so hard in Perth that when he got up gasping for breath and literally couldn’t see straight.
“Directly in the middle of my vision I was looking at a black orb. It was like staring into a ceiling light, I had a black orb where I was trying to find the ball. I had to look off centre then use my peripheral vision so I could see the ball coming in. That was the closest I came to being knocked out.”
Nah Woosh was tough but fair. If anything it speaks to how tough Brereton was - if Johnny wanted to lay you out then you got laid the f*ck out.
11 AFL greats picked three stars to start a team from scratch. The results will surprise you
11 AFL greats picked 3 stars to start a team from scratch. The results were suprising
www.foxsports.com.au
Interesting choice by Garry Lyon considering his thoughts early days.
Agent93
NinetyThree
- Sep 10, 2010
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I saw that. I'm wondering if he's now overcompensating, or looking at the off-field advantages Nic brings.
11 AFL greats picked three stars to start a team from scratch. The results will surprise you
11 AFL greats picked 3 stars to start a team from scratch. The results were suprising
Interesting choice by Garry Lyon considering his thoughts early days.
Considering how he usually operates, I'm going to go with "over-compensating". I assume he also drives a very large, loud car.
Good news gang, Robbo has us sneaking into the 8.
Mark Robinson
Top eight: Richmond, Geelong, Brisbane Lions, Western Bulldogs, GWS, Collingwood, West Coast, North Melbourne
Premiers: Richmond
Wooden spoon: Gold Coast
Brownlow Medal: Nat Fyfe
Coleman Medal: Tom Lynch (Rich)
Rising Star: Matt Rowell (GC)
Bold prediction: Retired Richmond star Alex Rance returns at the bye break.
Mark Robinson
Top eight: Richmond, Geelong, Brisbane Lions, Western Bulldogs, GWS, Collingwood, West Coast, North Melbourne
Premiers: Richmond
Wooden spoon: Gold Coast
Brownlow Medal: Nat Fyfe
Coleman Medal: Tom Lynch (Rich)
Rising Star: Matt Rowell (GC)
Bold prediction: Retired Richmond star Alex Rance returns at the bye break.
- Mar 23, 2019
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The Rance comeback will be the feel good Richmond story for the year and will give them media momentum for the finals. Sound familiar?
Not media coverage, but there is an in-depth WCE 2020 season preview on reddit, it's a long read and I haven't managed to make my way through the whole thing yet, but there's some good analysis.
www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/fcsjhl/maybe_the_real_premierships_was_the_tim_kelly_we
www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/fcsjhl/maybe_the_real_premierships_was_the_tim_kelly_we
- Sep 21, 2004
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- Norwood & Liverpool.
If Geelong struggle at Kardinia Park they struggle to make the 8.
That ground and a top 8 system has them almost locked in year after year. Plus they get to play rabbles like Carl, Melb, Bull over the years at Etihad/MCG . #giftedafinalsbirth
On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app
That ground and a top 8 system has them almost locked in year after year. Plus they get to play rabbles like Carl, Melb, Bull over the years at Etihad/MCG . #giftedafinalsbirth
On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app
Lets be fair though - we got the same sorta ride at Subi. Interstate clubs hardly ever won there and it contributed to us sneaking into finals a few times when arguably we shouldnt have.
He was definitely in the defence of Melbourne in the early days for overlooking Nic, so much of his comments early had a fair dose of bias.11 AFL greats picked three stars to start a team from scratch. The results will surprise you
11 AFL greats picked 3 stars to start a team from scratch. The results were suprising
Interesting choice by Garry Lyon considering his thoughts early days.
The irony of Watts leaving melbourne (when they were worried about Nics go home factor) was certainly enough to squash that.
If I built a team from scratch, he’s certainly in my team. He’s a drawcard, for sure- but his ruckwork would really assist in building connection with a midfield group coming together for the first time. Never mind his off ball bullocking work.
- May 8, 2012
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No such thing as insightful media, its all editorial nonsense these days.
11 AFL greats picked three stars to start a team from scratch. The results will surprise you
11 AFL greats picked 3 stars to start a team from scratch. The results were suprising
Interesting choice by Garry Lyon considering his thoughts early days.
No one picked Mcgovern...
I would choose a gun mid, CHF and CHB. Cripps/Bont in the middle. Mcgovern at CHB (there is no competition with Rance retired) and Darling or Cameron up forward.
Sure, but Geelong's advantage is on another level. They never play good Melbourne clubs at KP and the others are all interstate. On top of that they have the travel advantage of a Melbourne club.
It's no wonder that for the last decade they've just been making up the numbers. Geelong has to be genuinely terrible to miss out on finals.
Isn’t it better to play the more difficult teams at home? You should be beating the poor teams away more often than not so playing the better ones at home should give you a better chance of winning more games
Cam Mooney did
Lyon was pumping up Essendon ruckman Phillip's tyres on Sunday saying that the Eagles played 5 ruckmen against Essendon and Phillips did well against them, including Natanui. Watched that game closely Garry!11 AFL greats picked three stars to start a team from scratch. The results will surprise you
11 AFL greats picked 3 stars to start a team from scratch. The results were suprising
Interesting choice by Garry Lyon considering his thoughts early days.
Yeah but then we had the travel unlike Geelong
