Intelligent Design or Evolution?

[Schism]

I am a leader.

People follow me.

And I genuinely feel grateful to those who follow me with loyalty.

Straight off the cliff

 

[Karl Pilkington]

No one contesting ID has brought christianity into it. They have just countered every point they have been given.

Some of the points in favour of ID are irrefutable though, as they are based on belief and personal experiences (that is not to say they don't have logic or reason behind them).

Evolution itself, does not fully explain the human existence and experience, any more than saying 'god did it' does. Humans have a fundamental desire to make sense of the world around them and inside them, and we use science, math, personal experience and theoretical discussion to do so. It is this constant searching for answers and explanations that opens our minds to multiple different views on the world and our place in it.

When wearing my science hat, I can say I believe in evolution.

When wearing my spiritual hat, I can say I believe there is an element of intelligent design.

As a great man once said, 'God is Dead', meaning that believing in any one fundamental and ongoing truth (be it ID or evolution, the spaghetti monster, Allah, whatever) to explain the universe is like taking a chainsaw to your mind.

Keep in mind, this debate is centered around the very concept, purpose and origin of existence. For any "side" to claim victory is to claim they understand the entire meaning of life.

 

[Schism]

I'm happy with that conclusion myself.

Karl was correct, physically we are immortal.

The only two other contentions are do the ego and/or awareness survive death?

It is possible..but what has that got to do with intelligent design?

 

[Mario the Lothario]

Because these people believing 2+2=7 are our accountants.

Then you need to get a more intelligent designer.

 

[H2F]

Straight off the cliff

The only way to have these discussions is with a big serving of fun mate. I mean if Karl and I actually intended on educating you guys seriously, then we would get pretty frustrated.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

I'm happy with that conclusion myself.

Karl was correct, physically we are immortal.

The only two other contentions are do the ego and/or awareness survive death?

Exactly, we know that physically the parts we consist of are immortal (even if the atoms get broken up from each other).

What we can't prove is that our consciousness and perception survives, though I believe it does.

 

[Schism]

The only way to have these discussions is with a big serving of fun mate. I mean if Karl and I actually intended on educating you guys seriously, then we would get pretty frustrated.

I doubt there is anything you could educate me on mate.Carry on.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

The only way to have these discussions is with a big serving of fun mate. I mean if Karl and I actually intended on educating you guys seriously, then we would get pretty frustrated.

haha not at all, Schism and Nick are good posters imo.

But you're right, this kind of discussion really has no right.wrong answer, it just has degrees of depth and insight. We use science/math etc to support arguments and refute others, but its impossible to completely figure it out.

So why not have fun with it? It's only life, after all.

 

[H2F]

I doubt there is anything you could educate me on mate.Carry on.

What's your particular area of expertise if I can ask?

 

[Mario the Lothario]

It is possible..but what has that got to do with intelligent design?

Because that's all that's left to discuss.

Atoms are atoms, neither designed or evolved, just constantly transformational.

 

[Schism]

My area of expertise:Black metal.

Hey here's a curve ball for you lads,what if the universe is a simulation,like some scientists suggest.That means we don't even exist in the first place,let alone have a soul.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

Exactly, we know that physically the parts we consist of are immortal (even if the atoms get broken up from each other).

Sorta makes this whole continual creation/evolution wankfest look a bit stupid, don't it Karl?

 

[Mario the Lothario]

My area of expertise:Black metal.

Hey here's a curve ball for you lads,what if the universe is a simulation,like some scientists suggest.That means we don't even exist in the first place,let alone have a soul.

Descartes board.

Which is infinitely more interesting than this argument.

 

[H2F]

Exactly, we know that physically the parts we consist of are immortal (even if the atoms get broken up from each other).

What we can't prove is that our consciousness and perception survives, though I believe it does.

haha not at all, Schism and Nick are good posters imo.

But you're right, this kind of discussion really has no right.wrong answer, it just has degrees of depth and insight. We use science/math etc to support arguments and refute others, but its impossible to completely figure it out.

So why not have fun with it? It's only life, after all.

Sorta makes this whole continual creation/evolution wankfest look a bit stupid, don't it Karl?

100% spot on.



All hail Karl, and stop pretending that you are his equal.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Anyone who thinks that ID and religious fundamentalism (specifically Christian fundamentalism) are not intimately related is deluding themselves. ID is just creationism dressed up and creationism is one of the cornerstones of Christian fundamentalism. In addition, those who think that the ID/evolution debate is a waste of time then tell that to the many public schools in the U.S.A. where ID is slipped into the science classroom via the backdoor.

 

[sherrinorburley]

Then you need to get a more intelligent designer.

I'm no expert but i believe Jacque Fresco to be the most intelligent designer of modern times.

Jacque Fresco of Future by Design excellence.

He regards himself as a "Futurist". Very clever practical man whose influences/ideas on potential solutions for quality living have evolved from various sources best explained through his you tube videos and recent film.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

All hail Karl, and stop pretending that you are his equal.

This conversation could have been wrapped up 5 pages back if you didn't stroll in with your bullshit in the first place.

I'm no expert but i believe Jacque Fresco to be the most intelligent designer of modern times.

Thanks SOB, I'll check it out.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Do those believers in ID think of it as a science or do they not care what it is classified as?

 

[Karl Pilkington]

PP I think you're more arguing against the idea of ID as a subject or alternative to evolution.

Most here in favour of ID, if not all, also acknowledge evolution and I personally don't think ID has any place being taught in school alongside evolution.

Nor does the Arch Bishop of Canterbury, fyi.

It definitely isn't a science, rather, science is one of the many methods humans use to explain ID imo. Its obviously a belief, rather than a factual science. Though I am certain I've experienced some sort of connection with it first hand on a number of occasions.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

PP I think you're more arguing against the idea of ID as a subject or alternative to evolution.

Most here in favour of ID, if not all, also acknowledge evolution and I personally don't think ID has any place being taught in school alongside evolution.

Nor does the Arch Bishop of Canterbury, fyi.

It definitely isn't a science, rather, science is one of the many methods humans use to explain ID imo. Its obviously a belief, rather than a factual science. Though I am certain I've experienced some sort of connection with it first hand on a number of occasions.

No worries Karl, I was just curious as I am writing my honours thesis this year on creationism (including ID) and education in Australia.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

When the waters aren't muddied by religious and scientific dogma, isn't evolution, intelligent design anyway?

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

When the waters aren't muddied by religious and scientific dogma, isn't evolution, intelligent design anyway?

No. ID entails a designer who has a definite plan for life on earth whereas evolution, at least evolution by means of natural selection, has no final goal or end in sight. This, however, does not mean that it is random/directionless.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

No worries Karl, I was just curious as I am writing my honours thesis this year on creationism (including ID) and education in Australia.

Cool - sounds like an interesting topic - it must drive you batshit to see the same arguments presented back and forth ad nauseum

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Cool - sounds like an interesting topic - it must drive you batshit to see the same arguments presented back and forth ad nauseum

Yeah, it does in a way. The evolution vs creationism debate has been going for ages and will continue to doe so. I have no problem with ID as long as it does not encroach on the scientific discipline. Having said that, I am more interested in why proponents of ID have been more successful in influencing public education in the U.S. than Australia.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Yeah, it does in a way. The evolution vs creationism has been going for ages and will continue to doe so. I have no problem with ID as long as it does not encroach on the scientific discipline. Having said that, I am more interested in why proponents of ID have been more successful in influencing public education in the U.S. than Australia.

I agree wholeheartedly on the non-encroachment and think science should be free to go with stem cell research and the like. ID doesn't belong in government schools, simply because people go to school for education, not spirituality.