Interesting comments out of Geelong way

PAfolwr

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Given the topics of dicussion on this board lately, this makes interesting reading.

From this thread

Originally posted by Turbocat
Our list is not up to it and we cant do much about it. Why? Cause its too young, too inexperienced and too inept
I think , we are still paying the heavy price for the Ayres era and will be paying for a while yet. Have a Captain at our list and its obvious!!! The break down of the players and when they were drafted shows we lack players from the 94-98 period. That "guy’s" era has gutted Geelong so badly that it wont be till another four years of drafts that our list balances. Geelong has probably drafted as good as it ever has in the post 99 but there are players getting games that they should not be getting games because we lack solid core group of players from this era. Eg. from a list 40 players we have only 11 that are pre 1999, Out of that 11 we have 8 from the 94-98 group and only four directly drafted. This shows how pathetic our drafting really was. If they hadn’t got Scarlett thru F/S and Harley in trade it would be even worse.
We haven’t got enough from this era and the players we have not become the level one would expect. Mostly they are run of the mill players that are good enough to be support level players but not ever good enough to hold up a side by themselves. Likes of Milburn, Wojcinski, Mooney, Rahilly, Kingsley have proven they cannot be solid players and have failed to be the leaders at the club.
So, the fact is, like it or not, we either have wait another 4-6 years for players like Ablett, Ling,Bartel,Kelly etc to become fully senior players in age, games played and experience, have a couple terrible years, top with quality pick players or we will have to trade some potential star players for more players that haven’t secured themselves a place at on another clubs list, like we did with Sanderson, Pickering, Tudor, McGrath, Harley, Loats and Kingsley. Some times this work’s , some times it doesn’t but one will rarely get a play like this become an AFL top liner.
Personally, I’m sick of negative, boring football. Sick of basic skill errors. Sick of losing in big games. Sick of “Journeymen” being painted as champions. Id rather lose every game for 3 years to ensure a side like StKilda or Brisbane than persist with a 50/50 strugle Street aproach that will never win one a flag in amillion years.
Thanks Mr Ayres for the fine legacy that you have left the Cats. A decade of crap. Have a look Crows cause we are your future!!
 

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Portia

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#4
As I recall in 1999, West Coast only had one player aged between 23 and 27 (Fraser Gehrig). Its what happens to sides near the top for any length of time when they blow an early pick or two and trade the rest.

As was pointed out elsewhere, only 3 of Geelong's 22 on the weekend were there when Ayres was.
 

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#5
Originally posted by Porthos
As was pointed out elsewhere, only 3 of Geelong's 22 on the weekend were there when Ayres was.
Which means that Thompson is more responsible than anyone for the current state of Geelong's list.
 

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#6
I think you can see this coming from a mile away.

Watts could be a superstar, but that is a long way off, and the rest of the bunch look like solid contributors rather than matchwinners, or even worse, like duds.
 

Kane McGoodwin

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#7
Originally posted by PAfolwr
Given the topics of dicussion on this board lately, this makes interesting reading.

"Thanks Mr Ayres for the fine legacy that you have left the Cats. A decade of crap. Have a look Crows cause we are your future!!"
Yet Bomber Thompson is completely blameless for the Cats current plight.... Yeah right.

The Cats have traded away experienced players & concentrated on getting plenty of early draft picks for young talent to rebuild a new team. However, young players tend to struggle when they don't have enough experienced players around them. This has been exacerbated by injury.

To blame Ayres is rather simplistic. Would Geelong be in strife now if he were still their coach?
 

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#9
I think the biggest problem with our list is that we don't have stars in the 22-25 years of age category. This is the reason i think we will struggle for a couple of years.

I think we should have started introducing youth 2-3 years ago. Apart from 2003, we dug ourselves a bit of a grave with our trading and drafting.

The list of youngsters that we have might produce a couple of stars in Watts and Reilly. The likes of Krueger, Jericho, Hentschel and Schuback will be good to very good players but not many of them will be match winners in the league of Ricciutos, McLeods etc.

If we are REALLY smart with our recruiting and blooding of youngsters over the next 2-3 years we will get out of the slump as a stronger team. If we continue on trading draft picks for experienced players that are approaching the twilight of their careere, we will be a middle of the road club who might make finals but makes quick exits as well.

The talent we currently have on our list is not as bad as some people say but its not as good as we sometimes tend to think.

We have a decent group of talented youngsters but we need to come up with 2-3 real stars to add to our list. Johncock, Watts and Reilly is a good start if they develop as well as we are led to believe, but we still need 2-3 young starts to set us up for the next few years.

As far as potential KPP go I think we are resonaby well off. Kenny is only 23, Hentschel, Watts and Krueger have many years in front of them. We need a good young developing ruckman and a few star onballers.

Having said that, i am hoping that Rowan Andrews is a late developer and ends up being a very good player for us.:)
 

PAfolwr

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Re: Re: Interesting comments out of Geelong way

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin

...To blame Ayres is rather simplistic. Would Geelong be in strife now if he were still their coach?
IMO yes they would be.

The real question is, should he have done things differently while he was there, and how would he be thought of if he had won a premiership or two.

Still, it makes for good debate doesn't it?
 

Kane McGoodwin

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#11
Re: Re: Re: Interesting comments out of Geelong way

Originally posted by PAfolwr
IMO yes they would be.

The real question is, should he have done things differently while he was there, and how would he be thought of if he had won a premiership or two.

Still, it makes for good debate doesn't it?
Sure, it is a bit like hypothisising whether Port would have won a premiership or too with Jack still at the helm (well at least for finals any way)...;)
 

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PAfolwr

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Interesting comments out of Geelong way

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Sure, it is a bit like hypothisising whether Port would have won a premiership or too with Jack still at the helm (well at least for finals any way)...;)
How did this turn into a Port thing. :eek: ;)
 
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#14
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think the biggest problem with our list is that we don't have stars in the 22-25 years of age category. This is the reason i think we will struggle for a couple of years.

I think we should have started introducing youth 2-3 years ago. Apart from 2003, we dug ourselves a bit of a grave with our trading and drafting.

The list of youngsters that we have might produce a couple of stars in Watts and Reilly. The likes of Krueger, Jericho, Hentschel and Schuback will be good to very good players but not many of them will be match winners in the league of Ricciutos, McLeods etc.

If we are REALLY smart with our recruiting and blooding of youngsters over the next 2-3 years we will get out of the slump as a stronger team. If we continue on trading draft picks for experienced players that are approaching the twilight of their careere, we will be a middle of the road club who might make finals but makes quick exits as well.

The talent we currently have on our list is not as bad as some people say but its not as good as we sometimes tend to think.

We have a decent group of talented youngsters but we need to come up with 2-3 real stars to add to our list. Johncock, Watts and Reilly is a good start if they develop as well as we are led to believe, but we still need 2-3 young starts to set us up for the next few years.

As far as potential KPP go I think we are resonaby well off. Kenny is only 23, Hentschel, Watts and Krueger have many years in front of them. We need a good young developing ruckman and a few star onballers.

Having said that, i am hoping that Rowan Andrews is a late developer and ends up being a very good player for us.:)
Good post Stiffy - captures the situation perfectly
 

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#17
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
The likes of Krueger, Jericho, Hentschel and Schuback will be good to very good players

Sorry, but I just find that comment a little bit funny after you boiled over when you found out Krueger had been recruited and now you're sure he will be good to very good without nary a game under his belt!
 

Kane McGoodwin

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#18
Originally posted by spindoctor
Sorry, but I just find that comment a little bit funny after you boiled over when you found out Krueger had been recruited and now you're sure he will be good to very good without nary a game under his belt!
SD. I don't think Stiffy has a problem with Krueger as such, more that he was drafted by AFC as a future ruckman where in Stiffy's opinion he is more of a KPP.
 
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#19
Thompson turned that list over, not Ayres.
I have a recollection of an interview with Brian Cook about the time he was in the runnning for Jacko's job, and he said in the space of three years there were only 6 players let from the Ayres era.

The question is why did Thompson do it?
Surely a pointer to the fact that Ayres list management was not good?
 
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#20
Originally posted by spindoctor
Sorry, but I just find that comment a little bit funny after you boiled over when you found out Krueger had been recruited and now you're sure he will be good to very good without nary a game under his belt!
indeed - quite an opinion of a 21 year old who has so far managed to play 8 SANFL games.
 

Stiffy_18

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#21
Originally posted by spindoctor
Sorry, but I just find that comment a little bit funny after you boiled over when you found out Krueger had been recruited and now you're sure he will be good to very good without nary a game under his belt!
Check your facts before you mouth off. Please tell me why was I dirty at the selcetion of Krueger??????
 
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#22
Originally posted by naughty monkey
Thompson turned that list over, not Ayres.
I have a recollection of an interview with Brian Cook about the time he was in the runnning for Jacko's job, and he said in the space of three years there were only 6 players let from the Ayres era.

The question is why did Thompson do it?
Surely a pointer to the fact that Ayres list management was not good?
Think perhaps players to suit Thompson game style - plus the list was ageing.
Geelong in the press here are moaning about the lack of quality forwards, and critisising Mooney and other forwards ( name escapes me)
Problem was their recruiting team picked them.
Also in the recent draft they had the opportunity to take, Clarke, Watts and Chaplin B4 deciding on Tenace. You can't make those decisions and then complain about a lack of quality marking forwrds.
 

macca23

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#23
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Think perhaps players to suit Thompson game style - plus the list was ageing.
Geelong in the press here are moaning about the lack of quality forwards, and critisising Mooney and other forwards ( name escapes me)
Problem was their recruiting team picked them.
Also in the recent draft they had the opportunity to take, Clarke, Watts and Chaplin B4 deciding on Tenace. You can't make those decisions and then complain about a lack of quality marking forwrds.
Fair criticism too. If you draft mainly on-ballers - Geelong's specialty - you won't get many KPP's.

Even then it's hard to draft good KPP's outside of the early picks - as witnessed by Adelaide's lack of success in this area.
 

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#24
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Geelong in the press here are moaning about the lack of quality forwards, and critisising Mooney and other forwards ( name escapes me)
Problem was their recruiting team picked them.
Also in the recent draft they had the opportunity to take, Clarke, Watts and Chaplin B4 deciding on Tenace. You can't make those decisions and then complain about a lack of quality marking forwrds.
Spot on.

Over the last 2-3 years they had so many opportunities to draft a good quality tall forward yet they overlooked them for midfielders.

Maybe Thompson is suffering from "Terry Wallace Syndrome". As we all know major symptom of this is the obsession with midfielders.
 
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#25
Originally posted by macca23
Fair criticism too. If you draft mainly on-ballers - Geelong's specialty - you won't get many KPP's.

Even then it's hard to draft good KPP's outside of the early picks - as witnessed by Adelaide's lack of success in this area.
Unless your lucky to snare a Heard or Grant as late picks, but over a decade, thats not many success's for 16 teams with late draft picks.
Melbourne radio (G.Lyon) yesterday openly suggested Geelong should tank the year to get priority draft picks.
Seems you have to be below 5 wins to get priority picks, if you are going to be a powerhouse. What Bull...
Geelong have hd enough mid top ten picks to replenish their stocks- its just the players they've been picking, which is the problem.

Adelaide has to get 1 or 2 top ten draft picks to get the type of quality player it needs. And it willl need to trade agressively to get those picks.
 
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