Intermittent fasting

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Has anyone here read this book http://www.bookdepository.com/Fast-Diet-Michael-Mosley/9781780722375 or has anyone got suggestions for better reading material? Ive been doing 16:8 for over a year now and do a couple of 36 hour fasts a month but I really dont know anything about fasting outside of this thread and my own personal experience
 
Depends on your activity level and goals.
Light activities only at the moment due to injury. In terms of goals all I want is to know more of the scientific background
 

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I've spent the last few days reading this entire thread and have decided to give this a go.

I figure besides cutting out the snacking in the evening after the kids go to bed (out of boredom mainly), the main change is just delaying my breakfast smoothie which I usually have on the drive to work until about 11am or so.

Looking forward to see if I can do this. Wish me luck.
 
I am having a bulletproof coffee in the morning but other than that eating in a window from 3.30:- 7.30. I have a snack at 3.30, workout (Crossfit) from 5.30 - 6.30 then have dinner straight after.
 
Hey guys, i've unknowingly been doing this as well i think. Interested in stepping up my attempts and cleaning up my diet within the 8hr window though. Couple of questions... Read the first handful of pages of the thread, then skipped to last handful of pages, so apologies if any of the following have been covered in the middle sections (I will get back to read them asap). evo certainly knows his stuff.

1) It was mentioned that the body has elevated cortisol after waking up, in catabolic state if you will. This would mean it'd be perfect for cardio, right?
Surely you wouldn't get optimum performance in a weight session in that state, after fasting for say 12 hours?

2) To maximise output, would it be better to split up cardio and weights into two different workouts, perhaps opposite ends of the day?

3) I noticed Evo said he recommends training either just before or just after breaking the fast; hypothetically, if i were to weight train just before breaking my fast, would i be better to have high GI foods in that initial meal to get the fuel to the muscles quicker or stick with low GI to drip feed the body for longer, possibly negating the need for additional calories so soon?

4) I know HIIT is best for fat loss, but i'm 115kg and get shin splints once i sprint for sustained periods on the treadmill. So wondering if steady state cardio while fasted would still achieve significant results on a caloric deficit?

5) How do you work out maintenance calories? i'm 115kg and 169cm.

Found this which prompted me to ask your experiences, as he thinks a 30-60 min walk towards beginning of fast and weights near the end of the fast.

Thanks lads and lasses for sharing your knowledge so far and glad to see so many getting some pretty top notch results on their own journey.
 
1) It was mentioned that the body has elevated cortisol after waking up, in catabolic state if you will. This would mean it'd be perfect for cardio, right?
If you are trying to lose fat, then yes.

Catabolism (from Greek κάτω kato, "downward" and βάλλειν ballein, "to throw") is the set of metabolic pathways that breaks down molecules into smaller units that are either oxidized to release energy, or used in other anabolic reactions.

So that means it's good for fatburning.
Surely you wouldn't get optimum performance in a weight session in that state, after fasting for say 12 hours?
Why not? You are breaking down fat for energy.

It takes a while for your body to get used to lifting weights fasted, but theres no reason why you cant do it effectively. IF you struggle a bit try taking a pre workout drink and or a strong coffee.
Body building is about breaking down the muscles (tiny rips) during the lifting session(catabolism) and then repairing later on when you eat(anabolism)

2) To maximise output, would it be better to split up cardio and weights into two different workouts, perhaps opposite ends of the day?
You can if you want. But if you are trying to get maximum fat burning potential, then the lower your blood sugar when you do it the more the body has to grab energy from fat stores.

I reckon the best way to do it is to do HIIT cardio on your non-weightlifting days. I rckon something like Tabata is very effective.

I'm not a big fan of steady state cardio, that's for long distance runners. If you are trying to build all round fitness and body building then HIIT is better.


3) I noticed Evo said he recommends training either just before or just after breaking the fast; hypothetically, if i were to weight train just before breaking my fast, would i be better to have high GI foods in that initial meal to get the fuel to the muscles quicker or stick with low GI to drip feed the body for longer, possibly negating the need for additional calories so soon?
If your blood sugar is low after a fast and weight lifting session and you only eat protein and fat the body will use some of that protein to replenish your blood sugar levels - it's call gluconeogenesis.

Thats why you might hear people say carbs are "protein sparing". After weightlifting you should have a mixed meal, carbs and protein. Carbs also raises insulin, which is what you want to repair muscles. Insulin is "anabolic".

If you want to eat high GI carbs just after training is the best time to do it. All the carbs will go to replenishing your blood sugar stores in your liver, none to fat stores.

As a general rule though, low GI slow delivery carbs are always better than high GI fast burning carbs if you are trying to burn fat.
We want to avoid "spill over"




4) I know HIIT is best for fat loss, but i'm 115kg and get shin splints once i sprint for sustained periods on the treadmill. So wondering if steady state cardio while fasted would still achieve significant results on a caloric deficit?
see above., Tabata. Low impact.

5) How do you work out maintenance calories? i'm 115kg and 169cm.

Found this which prompted me to ask your experiences, as he thinks a 30-60 min walk towards beginning of fast and weights near the end of the fast.

Thanks lads and lasses for sharing your knowledge so far and glad to see so many getting some pretty top notch results on their own journey.
master IF and you will never have to worry about counting a calorie again. Just make sure you are getting enough protein to rebuild muscles. Around 150g-200g per day if you are weightlifting for someone your size.

Hope that helps. It's all about managing hormones. It's quite complex but as a general guide:
Insulin: anabolic. (stores fat, ferries protein to muscles)
Cortisol: catabolic, breaks down fat and muscle( fight or flight hormone)
Human Growth Hormone(HGH): catabolic for fat, anabolic for muscle. That's why Steven Dank likes it ;)

Insulin and HGH work against each other(antagonists). fasting lowers insulin, raises HGH.

Overweight people usually have high insulin all the time(insulin resistant) hence harder to put on lean muscle, easier to put on fat
 
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If you are trying to lose fat, then yes.

Catabolism (from Greek κάτω kato, "downward" and βάλλειν ballein, "to throw") is the set of metabolic pathways that breaks down molecules into smaller units that are either oxidized to release energy, or used in other anabolic reactions.

So that means it's good for fatburning.
Why not? You are breaking down fat for energy.

It takes a while for your body to get used to lifting weights fasted, but theres no reason why you cant do it effectively. IF you struggle a bit try taking a pre workout drink and or a strong coffee.
Body building is about breaking down the muscles (tiny rips) during the lifting session(catabolism) and then repairing later on when you eat(anabolism)

You can if you want. But if you are trying to get maximum fat burning potential, then the lower your blood sugar when you do it the more the body has to grab energy from fat stores.

I reckon the best way to do it is to do HIIT cardio on your non-weightlifting days. I rckon something like Tabata is very effective.

I'm not a big fan of steady state cardio, that's for long distance runners. If you are trying to build all round fitness and body building then HIIT is better.


If your blood sugar is low after a fast and weight lifting session and you only eat protein and fat the body will use some of that protein to replenish your blood sugar levels - it's call gluconeogenesis.

Thats why you might hear people say carbs are "protein sparing". After weightlifting you should have a mixed meal, carbs and protein. Carbs also raises insulin, which is what you want to repair muscles. Insulin is "anabolic".

If you want to eat high GI carbs just after training is the best time to do it. All the carbs will go to replenishing your blood sugar stores in your liver, none to fat stores.

As a general rule though, low GI slow delivery carbs are always better than high GI fast burning carbs if you are trying to burn fat.
We want to avoid "spill over"




see above., Tabata. Low impact.

master IF and you will never have to worry about counting a calorie again. Just make sure you are getting enough protein to rebuild muscles. Around 150g-200g per day if you are weightlifting for someone your size.

Hope that helps. It's all about managing hormones. It's quite complex but as a general guide:
Insulin: anabolic. (stores fat, ferries protein to muscles)
Cortisol: catabolic, breaks down fat and muscle( fight or flight hormone)
Human Growth Hormone(HGH): catabolic for fat, anabolic for muscle. That's why Steven Dank likes it ;)

Insulin and HGH work against each other(antagonists). fasting lowers insulin, raises HGH.

Overweight people usually have high insulin all the time(insulin resistant) hence harder to put on lean muscle, easier to put on fat

Legend, thanks.
 
If you are trying to lose fat, then yes.

Catabolism (from Greek κάτω kato, "downward" and βάλλειν ballein, "to throw") is the set of metabolic pathways that breaks down molecules into smaller units that are either oxidized to release energy, or used in other anabolic reactions.

So that means it's good for fatburning.
Why not? You are breaking down fat for energy.

It takes a while for your body to get used to lifting weights fasted, but theres no reason why you cant do it effectively. IF you struggle a bit try taking a pre workout drink and or a strong coffee.
Body building is about breaking down the muscles (tiny rips) during the lifting session(catabolism) and then repairing later on when you eat(anabolism)

You can if you want. But if you are trying to get maximum fat burning potential, then the lower your blood sugar when you do it the more the body has to grab energy from fat stores.

I reckon the best way to do it is to do HIIT cardio on your non-weightlifting days. I rckon something like Tabata is very effective.

I'm not a big fan of steady state cardio, that's for long distance runners. If you are trying to build all round fitness and body building then HIIT is better.


If your blood sugar is low after a fast and weight lifting session and you only eat protein and fat the body will use some of that protein to replenish your blood sugar levels - it's call gluconeogenesis.

Thats why you might hear people say carbs are "protein sparing". After weightlifting you should have a mixed meal, carbs and protein. Carbs also raises insulin, which is what you want to repair muscles. Insulin is "anabolic".

If you want to eat high GI carbs just after training is the best time to do it. All the carbs will go to replenishing your blood sugar stores in your liver, none to fat stores.

As a general rule though, low GI slow delivery carbs are always better than high GI fast burning carbs if you are trying to burn fat.
We want to avoid "spill over"




see above., Tabata. Low impact.

master IF and you will never have to worry about counting a calorie again. Just make sure you are getting enough protein to rebuild muscles. Around 150g-200g per day if you are weightlifting for someone your size.

Hope that helps. It's all about managing hormones. It's quite complex but as a general guide:
Insulin: anabolic. (stores fat, ferries protein to muscles)
Cortisol: catabolic, breaks down fat and muscle( fight or flight hormone)
Human Growth Hormone(HGH): catabolic for fat, anabolic for muscle. That's why Steven Dank likes it ;)

Insulin and HGH work against each other(antagonists). fasting lowers insulin, raises HGH.

Overweight people usually have high insulin all the time(insulin resistant) hence harder to put on lean muscle, easier to put on fat


You are an evangelist for the TABATA brother. How are your workouts going
 
You are an evangelist for the TABATA brother. How are your workouts going
unfortunately just recovering from hand surgery mate. Havent lifted a weight in anger for quite while.

Keen to get back in the gym. It's killing me.
 

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hi, very rarely been to this section of BF and have just skimmed over the thread so has probably been covered.
i am a 56 year old retired male who is 185cm and 78kg. i play regular competitive futsal (once a week) and 3/4 times a week i do an exercise program called "insanity" (very similar to tabata workouts above) which i really enjoy. i have never done weights. i have a few problems that evo or others maybe able to help me with.
1. knees are starting to get quite sore during insanity session (lots of squats/high knees etc.). they do not seem to bother me when playing futsal. any diet tips that may help this? i eat quite healthily and take fish oil and glucosamine tablets.
2. feel great straight after insanity for a few hours but get very fatigued and sleepy mid afternoon (always go insane in the morning). best food/s to eat post high intensity workouts?
3. i have been finding myself lately craving sugary foods in a binge type fashion. what is the best type of natural food that may satisfy this craving?
4. have also had a sore hamstring (not torn as has no affect when playing futsal) for 18 months, have been to GP he says just aches and pains of getting older and i need to slow down. but if i don't exercise for any more than 2/3 days straight i feel shithouse.

note: i have a hereditary kidney disease (nephritis) so i get regular blood and urine tests, i was told 25 years ago i would more than likely be on dialysis within 5 to 10 years and am still going strong, mainly through healthy lifestyle choices.
 
1. not much more you can do for your joints if you already take fish oil. More vegetables would probably help. . Get into vegetable juicing. Stuff like celery, ginger etc.Reduces inflammation and provides anti oxidants.

2. Mid afternoon sleepiness is probably because you are getting a spike in insulin, then crash. Reduce carbs post workout.

3. Carb craving probably means youre a little insulin resistant. related to answer 2. Intermittent fasting improves insulin sensitivity.

Apple, bananas, rolled oats are good for carb cravings. Satifies the craving but delivers sugars in a more regulated fashion because it is accompanied by fibre.

4. doctor maybe right, just getting old. Read up on "trigger point therapy". I'm nearly your age and fixed up a few aches and pains by getting rid of tendon knots.
 
I'm suss about fish oil and stopped taking it about 18 nonths ago. Their are studies
showing it's not all it's cracked up to be and finding a good quality source is the hardest part.

Great Lakes Gelatin is brilliant for joint care. Get the green lable as that doesn't set and two teaspoons per day in your fav drink/shake, soup etc is all you need.

Red label sets and is gret for jellies and deserts.

image_426dfebd-7720-4b26-be13-a5c97124598d_large.jpg
 
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thanks evo Bazzar really appreciate the info. my diet is good at the moment, i probably don't eat enough vegetables so will try and up the intake of them and will have a look at trigger point therapy. i will also give the great lakes gelatin a go.
i didn't mention in my previous post but i already do intermittent fasting, i usually do a 24hr fast once every week or so and a 48hr once a month, actually find them quite easy and satisfying to do.
it took me a while to get the hang of it, my biggest mistake early on was to have breakfast and try and fast from there, after a bit more research online i found it was better to- the day before eat around 75% of what you usually would and have no breakfast in the morning of the fasting period.
 
maybe one day...

10 day water fast? I'm currently giving this another go. I'm only eating dinner, which is around 6-8pm and is generally just steak, eggs, avocado, or something like that, and a whisky or two after. My energy levels are ok and I've "passed" all my recent blood tests.

I did a 3 day water fast but I don't know if I have the resolve for a 10 day fast.
 

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