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Intermittent fasting

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evo said:
It's not a starvation diet. In fact it is not even a diet. It is an eat-timing regime. For example I'm currently doing IF but eating about 3000 calories/day (slightly over TDEE)
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Good point. Everything i have been reading lately on IF points to increasing calories but with nutrient dense food.
 
ThePezDispenser said:
I don't get the fascination with IF for those that wish to compete in competitive sports or even try to build muscle in the gym?

It's turning into a craze...:thumbsdown:
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I had a healthy discussion with a mate a few years back about 'cavemen' diets and I've always sort of been partial to the idea of eating once and getting through the day on that feed alone. As a whole, I believe society needs to rethink the amount of food we consume considering the amount we waste each year.

In a footy sense, I've slogged my guts out doing preseasons for years and haven't improved my fat% one iota and am actually getting worse aerobically. I eat 3 square meals a day and keep away from grog and junk food (with the odd exception) and am sick of my hard work not paying dividends.

I don't think it's a craze, because I've always sort of understood the concept without knowing it (if that makes sense), and I'm sure others have too. The evidence to support the idea reaffirms my inklings.
 
evo said:
One or two days a week that would be ok, but you can't eat just one meal every day. An average active 5ft10 guy needs about 2700 calories/ day. Can you eat all that in one meal?



you haven't given a lot of information so I don't really know your height, weight, current calorie intake or goals.

No matter what diet you are on, you wanna be eating close to your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) on most days. Otherwise you won't put on any any muscle and in fact will start to ruin your metabolism and eventually burn out. It's not a starvation diet. In fact it is not even a diet. It is an eat-timing regime. For example I'm currently doing IF but eating about 3000 calories/day (slightly over TDEE)
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Sorry, I was pretty vague.

Around 6"1' & weigh about 84kg. I'd like to drop that to around 80-82kgs if possible.

My gym routine is centered around 3 main sessions, with major lifts in deadlifts, squats and bench press being spread over the 3 days with your usual like exercises to accommodate them.

Footy training is the other 2 nights of the week with an extra lighter night every second week.

Today for example I drank around 3 litres of water, had no breakfast or lunch yet had protein shakes either side of a gym workout at around 3 o'clock before having a massive bowl of chicken & pasta for tea.

I estimate to lose a bit of fat I need to be feeding at around 2300 calories a day.
 
Great work in here Evo, really good advice in your long write up and congrats on decent results.

I am a big fan of IF, been doing it for months now and find that a 7 of 8 hour window is easily achievable (without alcohol) and ends up being what your body wants. I plan to do IF for life, not just for the weight loss/muscle gain benefits, but for all the health related benefits that it contributes to later in life.

I am sure most of you in here have heard of TMW (Hodge twins) but if not, it is worth a look. Basically comedy with some decent information thrown in every now and again. They have an IF channel that is, well, looking at IF from a different angle :-)
 

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Santoz said:
Just found this thread and it's definitely good reading.

Any ideas on how to eat around footy training and gym if I'm IF?

I'm thinking of having one main meal a day (tea) on gym days and using protein shakes & creatine either side of weights.

On footy training days, I was wondering whether I'd need a few carbs around lunchtime to support a pretty solid running session in the arvo, and then having a good dinner again afterward.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Have a look here, this is a great read by a Doc who is also a bodybuilder and coached hundreds of elite amateur and professional athletes. In the last two Winter Olympics his athletes collected over 25 medals, 12 of them gold.
He also serves as a high performance consultant for Nike.

Good ballanced view.

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting

And this is his nutrition blog, again a great read.

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/
 
Santoz said:
Sorry, I was pretty vague.

Around 6"1' & weigh about 84kg. I'd like to drop that to around 80-82kgs if possible.

My gym routine is centered around 3 main sessions, with major lifts in deadlifts, squats and bench press being spread over the 3 days with your usual like exercises to accommodate them.

Footy training is the other 2 nights of the week with an extra lighter night every second week.

Today for example I drank around 3 litres of water, had no breakfast or lunch yet had protein shakes either side of a gym workout at around 3 o'clock before having a massive bowl of chicken & pasta for tea.

I estimate to lose a bit of fat I need to be feeding at around 2300 calories a day.
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OK, if you think you can get in 2300 calories in one meal plus a couple of protein shakes then you should be ok. Remember protein shakes aren't a lot of calories so your dinner is gonna have to be big. You're doing the big compound lifts so you want to be getting in a fair bit of protein - 150g+ if you want to be optimal. Don't be stingey on the whey scoops.

If I were you'd I'd eat a few more fruit and vegetables during the day. They are nutrient dense and mostly low calories- plus you need to have some fibre or you'll be backed up and bleeding out the ass a month or so from now.hehe. You also need a bit more dietary fat than one chicken breast will provide, otherwise your anabolic hormones will start to dwindle. When you're tryong to lose body fat testosterone and GH is your best friend. Consider having a tablespoon of fish oil and perhaps some nuts - almonds are good.

Ori Hoefflers, 'Warrior Diet' is somewhat similar to what you are trying to do, but even he reccomends light fruit and veggie or juices during the day.. Read his book if you can.
 
evo said:
If I were you'd I'd eat a few more fruit and vegetables during the day. They are nutrient dense and mostly low calories- plus you need to have some fibre or you'll be backed up and bleeding out the arse a month or so from now.hehe. You also need a bit more dietary fat than one chicken breast will provide, otherwise your anabolic hormones will start to dwindle. When you're tryong to lose body fat testosterone and GH is your best friend. Consider having a tablespoon of fish oil and perhaps some nuts - almonds are good.
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I'll squeeze a coffee in with a bit of low fat milk in the morning & eat more fruit & veggies from midday onwards. Might include a protein with a midday feed of vegies to help with the overall protein requirements. I might actually begin on something more like the 8/16 eating routine that many are mentioning on here.

Might have a small handful of nuts as a snack & banana an hour or so before footy training.

I'll assess where I'm at after about a month or so of gym & footy training.

Cheers.
 
Bazzar said:
Having a WTF moment.

1st week of IF (2pm-8pm) Lost 1.8kg good.
2nd week and still staying strict with good nutritious food, i have gained 3.2kg o_O
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told you you it was good for building muscle!

j/k

give it a another few weeks for your body to settle in. Water weight can tend to fluctuate wildly in the first few weeks.
 

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evo said:
told you you it was good for building muscle!

j/k

give it a another few weeks for your body to settle in. Water weight can tend to fluctuate wildly in the first few weeks.
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Yep. Whatever happens im still going to go the full 6 weeks before evaluating.

The interesting bit is now i start to get a bit hungry but not staving around 1.30pm. My mind and body is adjusting quick to hunger pains. I also had a drop of 18 bpm average in my cardio for the second week.
 
Bazzar said:
Having a WTF moment.

1st week of IF (2pm-8pm) Lost 1.8kg good.
2nd week and still staying strict with good nutritious food, i have gained 3.2kg o_O
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There is no possibility that those weight fluctuations are anything but mostly water weight. It is pretty much impossible to lose 1.8kgs of fat in a week. Conversely, you aren't going to put on 3kgs of fat or muscle in a week. Not even remotely close.
 
Tazwegian said:
There is no possibility that those weight fluctuations are anything but mostly water weight. It is pretty much impossible to lose 1.8kgs of fat in a week. Conversely, you aren't going to put on 3kgs of fat or muscle in a week. Not even remotely close.
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Your spot on. Im thinking it may have something to do with the body going into some kind of starvation mode or similar and storing more food as fat than using as energy, and maybe storing water for similar reasons. Might be wrong, but the numbers are strange.
 
you definitely won't go into starvation mode in such short fasts. If you went on a really low calorie diet for months orn end or didn't eat for 7 days that is a different story, but there a number of studies that demonstrate that for fasts less than 72 hour there is definitely no starvation mode or burning of muscle mass to use for energy.

By fasting you are actually improving your 'Insulin sensitivity', by exercising and eating well you will be improving it doubly so. Improving insulin sensitivity is actually teaching your body to do the opposite of "storing more food as fat". Insulin sensitivity is the opposite of "insulin resistance" which you don't want. That's what obese and pre-diabetic" people have. It is why getting reaslly fat becomes a viscious cycle of storing ever more food as fat as you become less efficient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_sensitivity


this guy explains quite well what is going on during short term fasts at about the 8 minute mark

 

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JDC! said:
So would people recommend using Intermittent Fasting if you DON'T want to lose weight?
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Personally have only used it for cutting currently - but others have used it to burn fat whilst bulking - i.e stay shredded and bulk - check out hodgetwins @fastingtwins they are currently bulking with IF
 
Hello fellow nutrition geeks... Here is a lecture on the origins of the western diet. I guess it's promoting the paleo diet



Warning the content in this doco may offend believers in the China study / vegan diet...
 
good stuff nicky. I'll take a gig at it this arvo.
nicky said:
Warning the content in this doco may offend believers in the China study / vegan diet...
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I've come to the conclusion that you want to take a bit from the China Study types, a bit from the Paleo guys, a bit from the IF guys a bit from the bodybuiilder.com types and even a bit from the Keto dudes (Atkins) and make your own hybrid.

All the different protocols have strengths and weaknesses.
 
evo said:
good stuff nicky. I'll take a gig at it this arvo.

I've come to the conclusion that you want to take a bit from the China Study types, a bit from the Paleo guys, a bit from the IF guys a bit from the bodybuiilder.com types and even a bit from the Keto dudes (Atkins) and make your own hybrid.

All the different protocols have strengths and weaknesses.
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couldn't agree more evo.
 

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