International Development

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RedV3x

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Here is a statement from AFL QLD for 2018/19 who operate in a Rugby Code Heartland, where every new recruit is a big win as in the USA. It says that the growth up there is driven mainly by Schools and the Womens/Girls big increase in participation.
Why has Queensland the highest figures ? What can other organisations copy ?
In the USA, they promote "fitness through fun" and the possibility of representing your country.
Is it the draw of the AFLW ?
 

TWLS

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Why has Queensland the highest figures ? What can other organisations copy ?
In the USA, they promote "fitness through fun" and the possibility of representing your country.
Is it the draw of the AFLW ?
There must be some sort of appeal for girls initially because all of the other non football Womens Sports do ok up there.
Womens Rugby League is just getting really established and Womens Soccer, Womens Rugby are also there.
Girls/Women say they like the contact side of the game and the Community/Family aspect which does not exist at times to the same degree in other sports.
Did read getting into the QLD schools a while back is now paying dividends but that needs money and the good structure.

The US Sports market is very crowded and competitive for minor sports such as ours - Its tough going like the current USAFL is finding.

The draw of the AFLW- it is the top tier and is watched by the prospective market, and would have a pull factor but its the grassroots where the prospectives end up and have to be developed.
To the poster--AKA Red
You ask a lot of questions on these forums - Why not do some research and post articles.
 

RedV3x

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You ask a lot of questions on these forums
I don't live in Queensland and I thought you posting on the subject that you might know something.
I'm still no wiser.
Younger demographic , better programs, less competition ?

Why not do some research and post articles.
Research ? I've travelled and met these clubs. I've played and umpired in many countries. I have written articles.
That's why I can say what I say with confidence.
 

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TWLS

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I don't live in Queensland and I thought you posting on the subject that you might know something.
I'm still no wiser.
Younger demographic , better programs, less competition ?
The answer is in the AFL QLD statement -They have taken the game into many more schools- And re-organised the whole QLD set up there. The result is now obvious.


Research ? I've travelled and met these clubs. I've played and umpired in many countries. I have written articles.
That's why I can say what I say with confidence.
With all that experience it does not explain on this forum why you dont post here regularly.
If I did not post it would be a total wasteland most of the time.
 

RedV3x

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With all that experience it does not explain on this forum why you don't post here regularly.
Why don't I post here regularly ?
Well, Covid19 has quietened things down a lot but that is not the reason.
i would suggest that if you are serious about the development of Australian Football that you join a serious site.
 

TWLS

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We are now well off topic and it looks like some "Serious" research is needed for here for the future - Very Very Seriously I might add.
 

RedV3x

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We are now well off topic .
Strange, you broached the subject of "research"

it looks like some "Serious" research is needed for here for the future
Then you further promote the idea of "research".

Very Very Seriously I might add.
Well it seems you are very much involved in the idea of "research". Good for you.
To me, it's not research, but involvement. Through involvement you get to know what's happening.
OK, one cannot travel and the International Cup has been delayed but there is still plenty of action.
 

TWLS

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Strange, you broached the subject of "research"



Then you further promote the idea of "research".



Well it seems you are very much involved in the idea of "research". Good for you.
To me, it's not research, but involvement. Through involvement you get to know what's happening.
OK, one cannot travel and the International Cup has been delayed but there is still plenty of action.
The title of this thread the last time I looked is International Development and you have still not posted anything relevant to that topic. Stay on topic.
 

RedV3x

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The title of this thread the last time I looked is International Development and you have still not posted anything relevant to that topic. Stay on topic.
Ya , Ich woll mein Bestes geben mein Forscher oder ist das mein Moderator ?
 

TWLS

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Ya , Ich woll mein Bestes geben mein Forscher oder ist das mein Moderator ?
Its getting very serious now from a member of a mysterious unnamed serious International Footy group. That group talk about footy seriously and do not do any serious research because they do not know how to because they are so serious. And they use the German language as a serious secret code from the Fatherland.
 

RedV3x

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Its getting very serious now from a member of a mysterious unnamed serious International Footy group. That group talk about footy seriously and do not do any serious research because they do not know how to because they are so serious. And they use the German language as a serious secret code from the Fatherland.
I'd say, tell me more but I'm afraid you've gone completely off topic.
 

RedV3x

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Some time ago I did extensive research on Australian Football's (organic) development across the world.
The results for that were a little underwhelming as there was found to be no one "magic bullet" for success.
The conditions and environment differed widely across the the world and even between regions.
What worked in one region didn't transfer to another region etc.
One aspect that I found interesting was the role of community/local government/government in sports development.
This had the largest and widest differences.
Sports in most countries need a national body to start to receive any help.
Sports in some countries need a participation level to receive significant help.
Some AFCs have been able to get football ovals included in community plans.
Funding for large tournaments has been refined with some countries doing extremely well.
Getting to know your local environment is extremely important for long term development.
 

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RedV3x

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Continuing on about the research i did some time again was a question of need, a wish list in effect.
Of course many wanted AFL help, read money, but many had realistic demands.
Europe was reasonably happy as it had acquired development officers and had benefitted from a goal posts grant.
The outstanding desire was from the USA that was, and still is, crying out for development officers.
Many clubs/leagues suggested achieving higher profile through exhibition games
however these are extremely expensive and quite ineffective without continuing investment.
Probably the most important lessen to be learned w.r.t. investment is that it is adequately followed up with support..
 

RedV3x

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One big change since I did a widespread survey is the development of links to educational institutions with school competitions.
There were only a handful of examples back then and though the football community deemed school involvement desirable
few football people had the resources to go down this path.
There was one high profile person championing the cause of this type of involvement and was asking for AFL assistance in that regard.
There was debate about the viability and the cost benefit ratio of this approach.
With the passage of time, some great school competitions have emerged showing that this is truly a great investment.
 

Aucklander

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Have only just stumbled across this. Will pop down and take in a few games.

 

RedV3x

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Easily the biggest development in Australian Football is the absolute explosion of women's Australian Football around the world. There doesn't seem to be orchestrated reason except for the creation of AFLW. Clubs/leagues were asked there attitudes to various possibilities. Most stated women's Australian Football would be a good addition to their club but none stated it would be a priority or they actually had plans to implement such a desire.
It does seem that the the creation of AFLW has sent a message around the world - that a woman can play football, more interesting than soccer, represent their country and if they're good enough - make some money. The pathway for women is so much more attainable for women. they have a good chance of playing AFLW whilst it is extremely competitive in getting to the AFL.
The GAA has women playing and one wonders if the difference in take up is in fact due to the possibility of professionalism.
Maybe it's just that Australia is a warmer destination than Ireland.
 

ike2112

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Easily the biggest development in Australian Football is the absolute explosion of women's Australian Football around the world. There doesn't seem to be orchestrated reason except for the creation of AFLW. Clubs/leagues were asked there attitudes to various possibilities. Most stated women's Australian Football would be a good addition to their club but none stated it would be a priority or they actually had plans to implement such a desire.
It does seem that the the creation of AFLW has sent a message around the world - that a woman can play football, more interesting than soccer, represent their country and if they're good enough - make some money. The pathway for women is so much more attainable for women. they have a good chance of playing AFLW whilst it is extremely competitive in getting to the AFL.
The GAA has women playing and one wonders if the difference in take up is in fact due to the possibility of professionalism.
Maybe it's just that Australia is a warmer destination than Ireland.
Much, much greater ratio of female non-Australians managing to make the jump into AFLW.

For a male playing in Europe, the prospect of making it to the AFL is 0. The only people who even get Cat-B places from Ireland don't normally even play footy there, they are selected based upon their GAA footy ability and usually at a relatively young age. They want athletes with a baseline of skills who have played in an elite environment, and they'll coach up the rest.
With women's footy they might still be looking primarily for athletes but there are far more making the move, and far more have touched a footy before getting their shot. The Cats have a player from a German club. For female participants outside of Australia the chances of getting to AFLW are still slim, they might be 1%, but it is far greater than for their male counterparts.
Is this because the AFLW has really shot up rapidly even within Australia and so the whole grassroots-to-elite programmes are still in their infancy, and hence there is not a huge gap yet between female athletes in Europe vs those in Queensland for example?
 

RedV3x

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they might still be looking primarily for athletes
Be specific - "they" is the AFL.

The AFL is the elite league of Australian Football and as such drives the interest and participation in Australian Football.
It is so difficult to be contracted to an AFL club that I believe no overseas player has made it to the top level.
There are numerous instances of players being listed or playing in second tier competitions.
There are numerous instances of young people coming to Australia and playing AFL.
There are numerous instances of athletes coming to Australia and playing AFL.
Yes, it is difficult for an overseas player to make it to the AFL. That should change quite soon.

Men's Australian Football has been played organised and competitive for over 160 years.
There were only occasional instances of women playing Australian Football.
Then women's football leagues were created but these had a low profile because of the low standard.
The big change came with the advent of women's youth football.
Suddenly there was a pathway for skilled women players to make league level.
This injection of speed and skill was the catalyst propelled women's football into the limelight.
At the same time, women's Australian Football was quite athletic, being played by young women.
The gap was initially not that great. Now that the AFLW has popularised Australian Football domestically - the gap is widening.

The AFLW could easily structure a competition with a world team. Indeed people mused over the introduction of "Celtic" team.
The difference world players and Celtic players is not region but type.
Most Celtic women players come from the GAA and not from AFL Ireland.
World players come from leagues in the U.S.A., Canada, Britain etc.
There is quite a number of them and NOT 1% as you suggest.
 

Fitzroy 12

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Bit of an exaggeration don't you think.



You might think so but not really - Ireland do it comfortably all the time.

Ireland rely heavily on their Aust based players to maintain their position in the top 3. In Europe where Aust based don’t participate in internationals usually, Great Britain have gone past them at a rate of knots. Denmark as well have surpassed them locally. It’s not a stretch for Nauru, USA, GB, Can to all go past them at an IC if they can find a couple more quality Aust based players.




Unless some of the inputs that got them to 3rd ranking return. Improbable - not impossible.



So your sole criteria for progress is International Cup performances and presumably 3rd ranking.
I've seen the rise and rise of standard in the International Cup.
Every event the bar gets raised higher. Most teams improve but don't 'progress' because every other team has also.
My benchmark is Nauru, because Nauru cannot get any better or bigger. Nauru is 100% AFL
IMO there are ten top teams.
I follow Canada quite closely and every I.C. I think they're going to improve their position because of how better prepared and skilled that they are.
Nope. Most of the countries also improve.
 

Gigantor

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There have been a couple exceptions to what you stated, which otherwise, is spot on the money.
South Africa grew strongly and quickly across a couple of ICs, but as soon as there was a drop off in Australian interest and investment, they immediately dropped back to mediocre.
There was a short period when a couple of aussies were pushing aussie rules strongly in Samoa, and they had at least one spectacular IC, but once again, as soon as that Australian connection is lost, game basically drops away to zero.
If it's the right place, the involvement of Australians can make a big difference in a very short space of time - but it's folly to think that progress can continue without that Australian involvement.
 

RedV3x

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it's folly to think that progress can continue without that Australian involvement.
You cherry-picked two AFL backed regions.
Where there is AFL investment you do get significant results.
We all know that and there isn't an overseas club that hasn't wished for AFL assistance.
The overwhelming majority of clubs don't recieve assistance and have come from "organic" growth
and whilst you'll usually find some Australian involvement, the development of unassisted overseas clubs rests on the hard work of locals.
I can list highly successful clubs and leagues with no Australian involvement.
I can list clubs and leagues where Australian involvement has held development back like in Britain.
The priorities for most AFCs overseas has changed significantly this century.
What they don't need is more Australians that think they know it all.
AFCs overseas need what makes Australian clubs successful - administrators, marketers, media and coterie etc., not just players and coaches.
 

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