International Development

[RedV3x]

I've always thought something similar, that rugby grounds are at least 112m long (including the end zones),

I found conflicting statements of 6m to 22m and 10m to 22m for endzones . I always thought it was 10m. like American football.

Mind you, the four remaining holes on the footy field would be quite dangerous.

Most posts are sleeved so you could insert something like a large tap washer over top
similar to what they do over sprinklers though they're far from perfect.

I've always wondered whether overseas rugby clubs, especially in places like the UK, France and Italy, would be amenable to allowing another sport use their field in their off-season.

I've only seen only rugby clubs being used in France, Italy and Czech Republic.
The U.K. seems to use a lot of rugby grounds as well. I was told that cricket season clashes with the football season.
Where rugby isn't popular then general sports fields and parks are used.
Educational facilities are sometimes used.
There must be, but I don't know of any soccer hook-ups.
Seasons aren't clear cut like in Australia so often "summer" sports are competing with "winter" sports.

 

[Gigantor]

I think in your more professional clubs, the end zones will be 10 metres, but in smaller clubs, you might find end zones of 6 or so metres.

 

[TWLS]

How does the AFL (or anybody for that matter) do that ?

Thinking it over the AFL has probably considered it already and decided that not for us.
Actually India is a microcosm of the ICC - Heaps of Cricket grounds but no suitable funding yet.

 

[TWLS]

Exhibition matches
Date Location Stadium Competition Teams Attendance
3/11/2012 London, England The Oval AFL Post-season exhibition - AFL European Challenge[11] Western Bulldogs vs. Port Adelaide 10,000[12]
17/10/2010 Shanghai, China Jiangwan Stadium Exhibition match - "Shanghai Showdown" Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions[13] 7,100
9/02/2008 Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates Ghantoot Polo and Racing Club NAB Cup Collingwood vs Adelaide[14] 6,102[15]
2/02/2008 Centurion, Gauteng, South Africa SuperSport Park AFL pre-season practice Carlton vs Fremantle 3,500[16] - 5,222[17] (reports vary)
21/10/2006 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Geelong v. Port Adelaide 12,129
15/1/2006 Los Angeles, USA Intramural Field,UCLA AFL pre-season practice Kangaroos v. Sydney 3,200 (sell-out)
8/10/2005 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition West Coast Eagles v. Fremantle 18,884
11/10/2003 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Fremantle 12,847
12/10/2002 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Richmond v. Essendon 13,000
17/2/2001 Wellington, New Zealand Westpac Stadium 2001 pre-season cup game – group stage Brisbane Lions v. Adelaide 7,500
7/10/2000 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. Adelaide 4,500
29/01/2000 Wellington, New Zealand Westpac Stadium Pre-season cup game - group stage Round 1 Western Bulldogs v. Hawthorn 11,666
9/10/1999 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Essendon v. Hawthorn 12,000+
10/10/1998 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Western Bulldogs v. St Kilda 12,000
1/03/1998 Wellington, New Zealand Basin Reserve Melbourne v. Sydney 7,820
22/02/1998 Cape Town, South Africa Newlands Cricket Ground Brisbane v. Fremantle 10,123
12/10/1997 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition West Coast v. Collingwood 14,000
16/10/1994 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Richmond v. Carlton and Adelaide v West Coast 6,000
13/10/1991 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition West Coast v. Hawthorn 10,000
5/10/1991 Auckland, New Zealand AFL post season exhibition Geelong v. St Kilda 8,500
14/10/1990 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Essendon 9,000
12/10/1990 Portland, USA Civic Stadium AFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. West Coast 14,787
22/10/1989 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. Essendon 12,000
14/10/1989 Miami, USA Joe Robbie Stadium VFL post season exhibition Essendon v. Hawthorn 10,069
12/10/1989 Toronto, Ontario, Canada Toronto Skydome VFL post season exhibition Geelong v. Melbourne 24,639
16/10/1988 Toronto, Ontario, Canada Varsity Stadium VFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Hawthorn 18,500
9/10/1988 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Hawthorn v. Carlton 10,000
8/10/1988 Miami, USA Joe Robbie Stadium VFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Geelong 7,500
25/10/1987 Yokohama, Japan Yokohama Stadium VFL post season exhibition Hawthorn v. Essendon 13,000
18/10/1987 Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada B.C. Place VFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. North Melbourne 7,980
11/10/1987 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Carlton v. North Melbourne ?
9/10/1987 Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada B.C. Place VFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. Sydney 32,789 (record to date)
3/11/1986 Yokohama, Japan Yokohama Stadium VFL post season exhibition Carlton v. Hawthorn 25,000
12/10/1986 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Carlton v. North Melbourne ?
29/10/1972 London, England The Oval Postseason World Tour Carlton v. All-Stars 9,000
05/11/1972 Athens, Greece Postseason World Tour Carlton v. All-Stars 3,000
12/11/1972 Singapore Postseason World Tour Carlton v. All-Stars 8,500
1969 New Delhi WAFL practice East Perth v. Subiaco 3,500
1967 London, England Crystal Palace National Sports Centre Australian Football World Tour Australia vs Britain (expat) ?
26/10/1963 San Francisco, USA Big Rec Stadium Geelong v. Melbourne 3,500
20/10/1963 Honolulu, USA Geelong v. Melbourne 1,500

from wiki again. TWLS you might research how each exhibition game has boosted Australian Football.

.

Just check the dates - 1963 to Circa 1987 - Our game did not exist locally to my knowledge. The VFL/AFL at that time did not have any future plans for grassroots just exhibitions.
After 1987/1989 our grassroots game appeared in some countries due to expats efforts only I think.
I wont be doing any more research on this topic at this time - Have too much to do with my own History research projects.

 

[TWLS]

"Central Broward Regional Park and Central Broward Stadium is a large county park in Lauderhill, Florida, owned and operated by Broward County. It opened on November 9, 2007, at a construction cost of $70 million.

View attachment 453229

The Main Event Field was the home of the Fort Lauderdale Fighting Squids of the United States Australian Football League in 2008.
In 2015 the venue hosted the 10th edition of the 49th Parallel Cup, an annual Australian Football match between the USA and Canada." -wiki

View attachment 453230

TWLS, you might research how much football is played on this superb oval.

I well remember when this venue opened. At last a proper ground for our game everybody thought and then from memory the actual charges to use the facility were exorbitant.
Anyhow the Squids started using it in 2008 after the fees were renegotiated and continue to do so.
Currently every man and his dog and others uses the facility when it is configured to suit their purpose.
Now I am really scratching the barrel with this story, but people should be aware the Indian expats control US Cricket and they did not want our game on that ground at that time, but as always negotiations settled it.
For an actual match history contact the Squids who maybe able to help you.

 

[RedV3x]

Thinking it over the AFL has probably considered it already and decided that not for us.
Actually India is a microcosm of the ICC - Heaps of Cricket grounds but no suitable funding yet.

What is "suitable funding" ?

 

[RedV3x]

Just check the dates - 1963 to Circa 1987 - Our game did not exist locally to my knowledge. The VFL/AFL at that time did not have any future plans for grassroots just exhibitions.

My post was in reference to your post stating that the AFL should follow the NFL and have more exhibition games
but by your comments the implication is that these exhibitions had no effect in developing the game overseas.

1987/1989 our grassroots game appeared in some countries due to expats efforts only I think

So again you are saying that development in Australian Football occurred only due to expats and not exhibition games.
Have you modified your stance on the AFL following the NFL and hainge more exhibition games ?

 

[RedV3x]

[

Now I am really scratching the barrel with this story, but people should be aware the Indian expats control US Cricket and they did not want our game on that ground at that time, but as always negotiations settled it.

Your earlier statement was along the lines that the AFL should target cricket ovals and people to play Australian Football.
This is just one example of where a seemingly great opportunity evapourated.In light of my subsequent comment that
cricket grounds are lightly used in England, the undisputed home of cricket,
do you still think that the AFL should target cricket facilities to bring people to play Australian Football ?

 

[RedV3x]

Thinking it over the AFL has probably considered it already and decided that not for us.
.

What exactly is "that not for us" ? Can you explain what you initially intended ?

 

[BringBackTorps]

Exhibition matches
Date Location Stadium Competition Teams Attendance
3/11/2012 London, England The Oval AFL Post-season exhibition - AFL European Challenge[11] Western Bulldogs vs. Port Adelaide 10,000[12]
17/10/2010 Shanghai, China Jiangwan Stadium Exhibition match - "Shanghai Showdown" Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions[13] 7,100
9/02/2008 Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates Ghantoot Polo and Racing Club NAB Cup Collingwood vs Adelaide[14] 6,102[15]
2/02/2008 Centurion, Gauteng, South Africa SuperSport Park AFL pre-season practice Carlton vs Fremantle 3,500[16] - 5,222[17] (reports vary)
21/10/2006 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Geelong v. Port Adelaide 12,129
15/1/2006 Los Angeles, USA Intramural Field,UCLA AFL pre-season practice Kangaroos v. Sydney 3,200 (sell-out)
8/10/2005 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition West Coast Eagles v. Fremantle 18,884
11/10/2003 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Fremantle 12,847
12/10/2002 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Richmond v. Essendon 13,000
17/2/2001 Wellington, New Zealand Westpac Stadium 2001 pre-season cup game – group stage Brisbane Lions v. Adelaide 7,500
7/10/2000 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. Adelaide 4,500
29/01/2000 Wellington, New Zealand Westpac Stadium Pre-season cup game - group stage Round 1 Western Bulldogs v. Hawthorn 11,666
9/10/1999 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Essendon v. Hawthorn 12,000+
10/10/1998 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Western Bulldogs v. St Kilda 12,000
1/03/1998 Wellington, New Zealand Basin Reserve Melbourne v. Sydney 7,820
22/02/1998 Cape Town, South Africa Newlands Cricket Ground Brisbane v. Fremantle 10,123
12/10/1997 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition West Coast v. Collingwood 14,000
16/10/1994 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Richmond v. Carlton and Adelaide v West Coast 6,000
13/10/1991 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition West Coast v. Hawthorn 10,000
5/10/1991 Auckland, New Zealand AFL post season exhibition Geelong v. St Kilda 8,500
14/10/1990 London, England The Oval AFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Essendon 9,000
12/10/1990 Portland, USA Civic Stadium AFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. West Coast 14,787
22/10/1989 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. Essendon 12,000
14/10/1989 Miami, USA Joe Robbie Stadium VFL post season exhibition Essendon v. Hawthorn 10,069
12/10/1989 Toronto, Ontario, Canada Toronto Skydome VFL post season exhibition Geelong v. Melbourne 24,639
16/10/1988 Toronto, Ontario, Canada Varsity Stadium VFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Hawthorn 18,500
9/10/1988 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Hawthorn v. Carlton 10,000
8/10/1988 Miami, USA Joe Robbie Stadium VFL post season exhibition Collingwood v. Geelong 7,500
25/10/1987 Yokohama, Japan Yokohama Stadium VFL post season exhibition Hawthorn v. Essendon 13,000
18/10/1987 Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada B.C. Place VFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. North Melbourne 7,980
11/10/1987 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Carlton v. North Melbourne ?
9/10/1987 Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada B.C. Place VFL post season exhibition Melbourne v. Sydney 32,789 (record to date)
3/11/1986 Yokohama, Japan Yokohama Stadium VFL post season exhibition Carlton v. Hawthorn 25,000
12/10/1986 London, England The Oval VFL post season exhibition Carlton v. North Melbourne ?
29/10/1972 London, England The Oval Postseason World Tour Carlton v. All-Stars 9,000
05/11/1972 Athens, Greece Postseason World Tour Carlton v. All-Stars 3,000
12/11/1972 Singapore Postseason World Tour Carlton v. All-Stars 8,500
1969 New Delhi WAFL practice East Perth v. Subiaco 3,500
1967 London, England Crystal Palace National Sports Centre Australian Football World Tour Australia vs Britain (expat) ?
26/10/1963 San Francisco, USA Big Rec Stadium Geelong v. Melbourne 3,500
20/10/1963 Honolulu, USA Geelong v. Melbourne 1,500

from wiki again. TWLS you might research how each exhibition game has boosted Australian Football.

.

Any idea how solid are the figures for the 1987 Vancouver (32,789) & 1986 Yokohama (c. 25,000) games?
And the other strong crowds around this time at other matches in Canada & Japan?
I am particularly surprised by the strong Japanese figures -were these in conjunction with any other Aust. themed event(s)?

These strong crowd figures seem to indicate there was a fair amount of interest in AF? Lost opportunities to promote GR AF devel.?

 

[TWLS]

[


Your earlier statement was along the lines that the AFL should target cricket ovals and people to play Australian Football.
This is just one example of where a seemingly great opportunity evapourated.In light of my subsequent comment that
cricket grounds are lightly used in England, the undisputed home of cricket,
do you still think that the AFL should target cricket facilities to bring people to play Australian Football ?

My wifes rellies in England all play Cricket and run half marathons in the off season.
I will check with them and find out what happens in the cricket season and afterwards about ground usage.

 

[TWLS]

What is "suitable funding" ?

Well AFL India currently operates on a shoe string budget relying on as far as I know donations in Melbourne.
The point is the AFL agreed to let that organisation use their name in promotions, and as far as I know that is where it ended.
However let us hope that the AFL assists financially the 2 AFL Clubs that are planning a game over there at a major Cricket venue AKA Ports venture into China.
What will happen after that match is the big question - Will the 2 clubs link up with AFL India.
AFL Essendon Bombers appear to be the most active with Kevin Sheedy visiting and their players also visit along with the Bendigo Footy League umpires.
Reclink are also operating over there at the grassroots level - Have no idea where their funding originates.

 

[jatz14]

[


Your earlier statement was along the lines that the AFL should target cricket ovals and people to play Australian Football.
This is just one example of where a seemingly great opportunity evapourated.In light of my subsequent comment that
cricket grounds are lightly used in England, the undisputed home of cricket,
do you still think that the AFL should target cricket facilities to bring people to play Australian Football ?

I think there is little prospect of targeting cricket ovals. I think cricket players and clubs in areas with no tradition of footy would be highly resistant to the idea.

Best left to local football clubs arranging things as they see the need and the opportunity


Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[TWLS]

Any idea how solid are the figures for the 1987 Vancouver (32,789) & 1986 Yokohama (c. 25,000) games?
And the other strong crowds around this time at other matches in Canada & Japan?
I am particularly surprised by the strong Japanese figures -were these in conjunction with any other Aust. themed event(s)?

These strong crowd figures seem to indicate there was a fair amount of interest in AF? Lost opportunities to promote GR AF devel.?

I can only comment on the London Games which finished in 2012.
The crowds were mainly expats we believe with a few curious locals.
There was talk of organising groups of players from Europe who had never seen a live match of our game but the matches stopped.

 

[TWLS]

I think there is little prospect of targeting cricket ovals. I think cricket players and clubs in areas with no tradition of footy would be highly resistant to the idea.

Best left to local football clubs arranging things as they see the need and the opportunity


Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

The upcoming AFL match in india is going to be very interesting. However AFL Essendon has previously taken GROUND CURATORS with them to explain how we manage the situation in Australia.

 

[RedV3x]

Any idea how solid are the figures for the 1987 Vancouver (32,789) & 1986 Yokohama (c. 25,000) games? And the other strong crowds around this time at other matches in Canada & Japan?
I am particularly surprised by the strong Japanese figures -were these in conjunction with any other Aust. themed event(s)?

These are definitely accurate figures. Yes, The reception in Canada and Japan was extremely good. The U.S.A. was medicocre.

These strong crowd figures seem to indicate there was a fair amount of interest in AF? Lost opportunities to promote GR AF devel.?

The situation was this.
These promotions were on the back of the VFL/AFL grand final which has a significant world coverage.
There was money about due to commercial takeovers etc especially in the beer market.
The competition (across the world) was underwritten by CUB for the Foster's Cup.
The games were broadcast back to Australia. Most were 16-a-side due the venues selected.
At the time it looked like A.F. was taking on the world (which it was) and IMO these games were highly successful.

So what changed ? Basically the beer economy, the Australian economy and even the world economy changed.
The removal of this specific and niche sponsorship (Australia-beer-football) made any repetition a costly indulgence.
Even though this competition (in reality an exhibition) was highly successful IMO what were the results ?
Basically none and organic growth continued onwards.
The U.S.A that had originally boomed due to cable TV exposure was too big a market to impact.
Canada that took to these games has shown to be a lot more amenable to AFL than the U..S.A. proportion-wise.
Japan has always had problems with lack of grounds and size of the market. No significant change there.
The games in London because of the way were conducted didn't show AFL in the best light.

There was constant discussion at the time about the need to get AFL onto cable TV.
And debate about the whether the AFL should be "dumping" it's product free overseas continues unabated.

Was it a lost opportunity ? Probably yes, but the situation changed so rapidly that nothing could be leveraged really.
I don't believe that exhibition games by themselves achieve anything but together as a package they can be the icing on a cake.

.

 

[RedV3x]

I think there is little prospect of targeting cricket ovals.
Best left to local football clubs arranging things as they see the need and the opportunity

I also believe that any football club tries to source out the best facilities regarding size, facilities and cost.
TWLS seemed to think some approach could be made to cricket. I was interested in whether he still held that view
or had a new approach .

 

[RedV3x]

I can only comment on the London Games which finished in 2012.
The crowds were mainly expats we believe with a few curious locals.

So do you believe that these AFL games in London have relevance to the NFL games in London
and whether the AFL as you suggested should be following the NFL's example ?

 

[Over The Post]

Be interested but express your interest in a less confrontational and abrasive manner, please.

We're all for in-depth and robust discussion, but the RedV3x vs TWLS show is getting monotonous.

 

[RedV3x]

Well AFL India currently operates on a shoe string budget .

Yes I know. I actually know a lot about football in India.
The question was what do you consider to be "suitable funding".

 

[TWLS]

What exactly is "that not for us" ? Can you explain what you initially intended ?

I cannot prove it but it is highly likely that Sheeds who is a keen Internationalist or someone else of that ilk would have discussed it with AFL House re contacting the ICC.

Yes I know. I actually know a lot about football in India.
The question was what do you consider to be "suitable funding".

Do not know the costs.

 

[RedV3x]

Do not know the costs.

Heaps of Cricket grounds but no suitable funding yet.

So what is your "suitbale funding" trying to achieve ?
We should be able to garner the extent of investment required.

 

[TWLS]

So what is your "suitbale funding" trying to achieve ?
We should be able to garner the extent of investment required.

This topic is now closed. Sorry I do not have any more time to answer your questions, which are very probing and technical and need lengthy answers, and this forum is not the place for those answers.
Thanks for your interest.

 

[RedV3x]

This topic is now closed.

Just to clarify. The topic of AFL approaching cricket entities overseas to attract Australian Footballers is now closed.
What about your suggestion that the AFL should follow the NFL's example of exhibition matches ?
What about your statement that the AFL's investment overseas is "token" ?
What about the comparison with other codes investment in grassroots with the AFL's investment.

I'm sorry I do not have any more time to answer your questions, which are very probing and technical and need lengthy answers, and this forum is not the place for those answers.

Mt questions tend to be probing and technical. They needn't be lengthy answers but accurate and truthful as possible.

this forum is not the place for those answers.

But the whole idea of this forum is to report, discuss, analyze and debate the mechanism of Australian Football development
around the world.

Well I will give you a snippett or two because you are either lazy or do not know how to research or comprehend, which is likely on all counts.

That statement contradicts somewhat your earlier statement that I am too particular.

 

[Over The Post]

... and that will do. You've said your piece, many times, you've made your points. Your questions remain unanswered to your satisfaction - such is life.

If you cannot discuss a subject without constantly niggling another poster you should consider that subject closed, or else take some time out to reflect upon the relative importance of your online persona in the real world.

Thank you.