Autopsy International games, why ?

[DangerSloane]

We need to follow the American model with their World Series Baseball where all games are played on American soil and all other countries must travel to play there. Countries like......................ummm....errrrhh...you know.

Except they arent. They play a number of games through the year in central american countries countries.
And not even all the teams are american.

But go on...tell me how much you know of the topic.

 

[DangerSloane]

You seem a bit dim but there's a 314 page thread on the Port Board if you want educate yourself.

314 pages of Port drivel wont give anyone the answers theyre looking for.
Especially if you're involved.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I just dont get why it seems to be accepted reasoning we should be looking to play AFL games overseas.

I'm not necessarily opposed if Port and the Suns want to play in China. Our club has shown some interest in playing a game with the Tigers in India. It was qualified with if some hurdles can be overcome. I assume that to be who gives up a home game.

In all of the discussions I see a lot of it's a great idea, but although I've tried I haven't seen any sound arguments why. It always seems to come down to cos we can.

I'm not aware of any serious intent to locate AFL teams overseas, and frankly as that must mean giving up national control of the game over time, I am opposed.

It'd be great to have standalone serious competitions in other countries and to be able to have genuine international test matches, but that doesn't seem to be a serious intent either.

So I return to why? Maybe I'm missing something.

In a game that we talk about taking it a week at a time, a quarter at a time, and a contest at a time, people aren't programmed to take it a decade at a time.

What's it about? About what most things the AFL are about, $$$$. Why did GWS get a team in the national comp before Tassie?? Football wasn't the driver, $$$$ were. Why was AFLW brought forward 3 years?? The $$$$ opportunities. It's all tip no iceberg. If it was about the footy it would have been the other way round.

No real difference here. Just the time frame and distance is a lot different to the usual day to day footy stuff.

 

[DangerSloane]

In a game that we talk about taking it a week at a time, a quarter at a time, and a contest at a time, people aren't programmed to take it a decade at a time.

What's it about? About what most things the AFL are about, $$$$. Why did GWS get a team in the national comp before Tassie?? Football wasn't the driver, $$$$ were. Why was AFLW brought forward 3 years?? The $$$$ opportunities. It's all tip no iceberg. If it was about the footy it would have been the other way round.

No real difference here. Just the time frame and distance is a lot different to the usual day to day footy stuff.

Womens footy was brought forward because the growth exceeded expectations.
They wouldnt be making much money on it...in fact I'd say it would be at a loss at this stage.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

In a game that we talk about taking it a week at a time, a quarter at a time, and a contest at a time, people aren't programmed to take it a decade at a time.

What's it about? About what most things the AFL are about, $$$$. Why did GWS get a team in the national comp before Tassie?? Football wasn't the driver, $$$$ were. Why was AFLW brought forward 3 years?? The $$$$ opportunities. It's all tip no iceberg. If it was about the footy it would have been the other way round.

No real difference here. Just the time frame and distance is a lot different to the usual day to day footy stuff.

Why is this about GWS and why are you so defensive. I have no problem, as I said in the OP, if Port and the Suns want to play a game in China.

Nothing in this thread convinces me I should support us playing a game against the Tigers in India for points though. I get the positivity from many about the potential long term financial benefits. This has to weighed with the real and measurable disruption to the season. I would be radically opposed to any suggestion we give up at home game.

 

[chiwigi]

That might be a reason, where did the money come from?

Read the China - History in the Making thread on the Port board, you will find all your answers there, unless you are hoping to raise the petty minded trolls.
It has been huge for Port in raising club profile and club finances, for all its difficulties it has certainly been a net gain.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Womens footy was brought forward because the growth exceeded expectations.
They wouldnt be making much money on it...in fact I'd say it would be at a loss at this stage.

Its a defensive strategy to not let the Matilda's, who are pushing for top 5 in the world and to host a WC in 2023 in Oz, and the Pearls the Rugby 7 girls after their Olympic gold and other women's sports getting the big sponsorship deal and TV coverage and winning the hearts and minds of a generation.

So whilst the $$$ coming in are solid its about making sure the big $$$ in the future aren't locked out from the AFL as all the male sports and women's sports, TV executives, Corporates etc have woken up that they need to provide proper financial opportunities for women's sport and not leave it at amateur status.

As Deep Throat told Woodward and Bernstein - Follow the Money - if you want to understand.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Read the China - History in the Making thread on the Port board, you will find all your answers there, unless you are hoping to raise the petty minded trolls.
It has been huge for Port in raising club profile and club finances, for all its difficulties it has certainly been a net gain.

Some of your supporters are suggesting it didn't make cold hard measurable cash though. It might be it was justified in any case. It's a matter for the clubs to me. My issue, and it remains, is a lack of clarity in the justification.

 

[chiwigi]

Some of your supporters are suggesting it didn't make cold hard measurable cash though. It might be it was justified in any case. It's a matter for the clubs to me. My issue, and it remains, is a lack of clarity in the justification.

Of course it does. They just don't understand how.
The likes of REH above do.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Why is this about GWS and why are you so defensive. I have no problem, as I said in the OP, if Port and the Suns want to play a game in China.

Nothing in this thread convinces me I should support us playing a game against the Tigers in India for points though. I get the positivity from many about the potential long term financial benefits. This has to weighed with the real and measurable disruption to the season. I would be radically opposed to any suggestion we give up at home game.

Its about $$$$. Wakey wakey hands off snakey. Tassie should have got a team years ago but the AFL only see $$$$ in GWS and GC, so that's why I mentioned your team.

You want an answer about the footy stuff, but seem to ignore that most things are about the $$$$ stuff.

If you dont understand that foundation, you have no chance to understand the answers to your questions. I mentioned GWS because you support them and thought you would see the GWS was set up with $$$$ being the driver for the AFL as much if not more than what the footy opportunity was.

If your club isn't driving the India game then all you will see is the $$$ for selling a game.

If your club is driving the India game you will see the $$$ opportunities to grow your sponsorship base, some sports diplomacy, tying into the Indian community in Australia and your backyard in particular and overtime growing your supporter base within that community, tying into the Indian students in Australia and the Education sector - ie one of your main sponsors UNSW has a s**t load of students from India and they have campuses offshore and partnership with offshore unis. You will see your other corporate partners trying to do deals with Indian firms and grow their business via networking. The more $$$$ they make the more sponsorship fees they can pay. If your club is driving the game its about a shitload more than just the game.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Its about $$$$. Wakey wakey hands off snakey. Tassie should have got a team years ago but the AFL only see $$$$ in GWS and GC, so that's why I mentioned your team.

You want an answer about the footy stuff, but seem to ignore that most things are about the $$$$ stuff.

If you dont understand that foundation, you have no chance to understand the answers to your questions. I mentioned GWS because you support them and thought you would see the GWS was set up with $$$$ being the driver for the AFL as much if not more than what the footy opportunity was.

If your club isn't driving the India game then all you will see is the $$$ for selling a game.

If your club is driving the India game you will see the $$$ opportunities to grow your sponsorship base, some sports diplomacy, tying into the Indian community in Australia and your backyard in particular and overtime growing your supporter base within that community, tying into the Indian students in Australia and the Education sector - ie one of your main sponsors UNSW has a s**t load of students from India and they have campuses offshore and partnership with offshore unis. You will see your other corporate partners trying to do deals with Indian firms and grow their business via networking. The more $$$$ they make the more sponsorship fees they can pay. If your club is driving the game its about a shitload more than just the game.

In all of your post, there actually isn't any objective data or indication that money was made, although you contemptuously dismiss my daring to query it. That's problematic.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

In all of your post, there actually isn't any objective data or indication that money was made, although you contemptuously dismiss my daring to query it. That's problematic.

Do you understand what happens in the first 2 or 3 years of a business?? You dont make massive amount of money as you have start up costs. We basically broke even of the game. $4.5m in $4.6m out and then Ch 7 sent the AFL a bill for another $100k, which we had to pick up.

But that is purely the numbers relating to putting on the game, some of which were capital costs to upgrade the stadium to AFL standard and dont have to be repeated this year. Plenty of our sponsors have upgraded their sponsorships or others have come on board to tying with our China strategy either as a direct China partner or indirectly as a general club sponsor.

How long was it before tech firms like Amazon, Facebook, Twitter etc made a profit?? How long before start up property development firms take to make a profit??

The answers you want are in the club's general ledger. You aren't going to get that info.

But to given you an idea of the revenue generated for all our China strategy, to fund things in China including taking the Power Footy Program to currently 22 schools in Shanghai and will grow to 100 schools by the end of 2019, and an increase in general footy club sponsorship, since April 2016 MOU with our backer Mr Gui of Shanghai CRED was signed, $15m has been generated, according to this AFR story last week.

http://www.afr.com/news/policy/fore...-diplomacy-to-mend-china-ties-20180504-h0zo4s
The inaugural match took place last year but instead of being a one-off, Port Adelaide has big plans for China in the future. Since April 2016, 37 Chinese businesses have become partners of Port Adelaide generating more than $15 million in revenue for the club. A series of events being dubbed "G'day China" promoting Australian business has been organised in Shanghai to coincide with the match, filling a void left from Austrade's annual Australia Week in China, which has been put on hold due to diplomatic tensions. A big Australian presence in China is more significant this year given the relationship has been in the deep freeze since late last year when Beijing got upset with Turnbull's foreign interference laws and the anti-China rhetoric coming out of Canberra. The Australian Financial Review revealed last month that China is regularly refusing visas to ministers. This resulted in the The Australia Week in China Expo, which is usually held in Shanghai in April, being put on hold.
http://www.afr.com/news/policy/fore...-diplomacy-to-mend-china-ties-20180504-h0zo4s

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Do you understand what happens in the first 2 or 3 years of a business?? You dont make massive amount of money as you have start up costs. We basically broke even of the game. $4.5m in $4.6m out and then Ch 7 sent the AFL a bill for another $100k, which we had to pick up.

But that is purely the numbers relating to putting on the game, some of which were capital costs to upgrade the stadium to AFL standard and dont have to be repeated this year. Plenty of our sponsors have upgraded their sponsorships or others have come on board to tying with our China strategy either as a direct China partner or indirectly as a general club sponsor.

How long was it before tech firms like Amazon, Facebook, Twitter etc made a profit. How long before start up property development firms takes to make a profit.

The answers you want are in the club's general ledger. You aren't going to get that info.

But to given you an idea of the revenue generated for all our China strategy, to fund things in China including taking the Power Footy Program to currently 22 schools in Shanghai and will grow to 100 schools by the end of 2019, and an increase in general footy club sponsorship, since April 2016 MOU with our backer Mr Gui of Shanghai CRED was signed, $15m has been generated.

http://www.afr.com/news/policy/fore...-diplomacy-to-mend-china-ties-20180504-h0zo4s
The inaugural match took place last year but instead of being a one-off, Port Adelaide has big plans for China in the future. Since April 2016, 37 Chinese businesses have become partners of Port Adelaide generating more than $15 million in revenue for the club. A series of events being dubbed "G'day China" promoting Australian business has been organised in Shanghai to coincide with the match, filling a void left from Austrade's annual Australia Week in China, which has been put on hold due to diplomatic tensions. A big Australian presence in China is more significant this year given the relationship has been in the deep freeze since late last year when Beijing got upset with Turnbull's foreign interference laws and the anti-China rhetoric coming out of Canberra. The Australian Financial Review revealed last month that China is regularly refusing visas to ministers. This resulted in the The Australia Week in China Expo, which is usually held in Shanghai in April, being put on hold.
http://www.afr.com/news/policy/fore...-diplomacy-to-mend-china-ties-20180504-h0zo4s

Fair enough

I get you're a bit offended at being questioned and possibly a bit over the negativity when you see your club trying hard to do something new. . I respect your self discipline in bothering to explain, and appreciate it. It isn't in my mind to have a go at Port Adelaide.

Particularly If it involves a programme to introduce the game through schools that's great, and indicates a long term commitment I wasn't aware of. My query has been mostly there seemed to be no long term plan, and no tangible short term benefit. I stand corrected on that point.


I still think our focus needs to be on the loads of work required in Western Sydney to grow the game and our club.


Your club's well established and if Port want to take on the challenge, then I genuinely wish you well.

 

[Cudi_420]

That might be a reason, where did the money come from?

Mostly corporate marquees, broadcasting deals in China, and the like. It's more an AFL business trip with Port and the Suns latching on. It doesn't take much to earn a quid in China these days. Even a 0.5% interest in the market would make it worthwhile.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Can't even win the NSW market over. Plain embarrassing IMO that they take these games overseas.

 

[PP34]

Because the AFL is delusional and thinks that they can attract an international audience to watch their games.

It’s pretty funny. I highly doubt any country will ever seriously care about AFL as long as the NBA, EPL etc are still around. Basketball and soccer are played worldwide and the interest to watch leagues from other countries is there because of all the elite talent.

The only league that really conquered China was the NBA thanks to Yao Ming.

Be nice if the AFL just focused on making the game better here and ensuring grass roots footy provides a great pathway to the big leagues.

Morons the lot of them.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Fair enough

I get you're a bit offended at being questioned and possibly a bit over the negativity when you see your club trying hard to do something new. . I respect your self discipline in bothering to explain, and appreciate it. It isn't in my mind to have a go at Port Adelaide.

Particularly If it involves a programme to introduce the game through schools that's great, and indicates a long term commitment I wasn't aware of. My query has been mostly there seemed to be no long term plan, and no tangible short term benefit. I stand corrected on that point.


I still think our focus needs to be on the loads of work required in Western Sydney to grow the game and our club.


Your club's well established and if Port want to take on the challenge, then I genuinely wish you well.

I wasnt offended, what I found frustrating was that you were talking footy, footy, footy when this is about $$$ $$$ $$$ + footy + other stuff and you didn't see that. This is a long term play. It's why I talked about a week at a time vs a decade at a time in my first post.

Garry Linnell - journo, ex editor of newspapers, wrote a great book, best book on footy I have read, called Football Ltd - The inside story of the AFL, explaining how the game became a national league. If he didnt say it in the book, he definitely said it in TV interviews said that the growth of the the game "had nothing to do with sitting around singing kumbaya and trying to do what was best for the game, but it was about the doe, and it is always about the doe."

That's why I stressed you have to look at the $$$. I would love it to be more about the footy and the game in general but when you are in one of the most competitive sports markets in the world ie Australia's obsession with sports and being the best whichever sport in the world, and you are the number 1 sport in that market, then unfortunately so much of it is about the doe.

For GWS to benefit from a game in India it would be better if it was the lead club. If you got to play us in China then you could benefit if you had a Chinese sponsor to start.

Look at how the GC has missed the boat. 3.6m Chinese were surveyed on where they would like to go for a holiday, first 3 where two in China and one in Thailand and the Gold Coast was number 4 That's a stunning opportunity. Huwaei have been the GC's technology partner since day 1. Huawei's world HQ is in Shenzhen, close to English speaking Hong Kong and one of China's 3 main technology cities and probably seen as their Silicon Valley. If the GC were smart they would have tried to replicate with Huwaei what we are trying to do in Shanghai. Base their China stuff out of that 12 million people city. Work the corporates there with the help of Huawei, get into the schools there with a footy program and they can then do all the sponsorship, corporate network, education, tourism, trade, sports diplomacy, linking in with Chinese community in Oz stuff. But it doesn't happen overnight and it takes a long term commitment. If you don't make that commitment you wont have the opportunity to reap those long term benefits.

 

[NoobPie]

Can't even win the NSW market over. Plain embarrassing IMO that they take these games overseas.

Good lord, how is it "embarrassing"?

 

[NoobPie]

I wasnt offended, what I found frustrating was that you were talking footy, footy, footy when this is about $$$ $$$ $$$ + footy + other stuff and you didn't see that. This is a long term play. It's why I talked about a week at a time vs a decade at a time in my first post.

Garry Linnell - journo, ex editor of newspapers, wrote a great book, best book on footy I have read, called Football Ltd - The inside story of the AFL, explaining how the game became a national league. If he didnt say it in the book, he definitely said it in TV interviews said that the growth of the the game "had nothing to do with sitting around singing kumbaya and trying to do what was best for the game, but it was about the doe, and it is always about the doe."

That's why I stressed you have to look at the $$$. I would love it to be more about the footy and the game in general but when you are in one of the most competitive sports markets in the world ie Australia's obsession with sports and being the best whichever sport in the world, and you are the number 1 sport in that market, then unfortunately so much of it is about the doe.

For GWS to benefit from a game in India it would be better if it was the lead club. If you got to play us in China then you could benefit if you had a Chinese sponsor to start.

Look at how the GC has missed the boat. 3.6m Chinese were surveyed on where they would like to go for a holiday, first 3 where two in China and one in Thailand and the Gold Coast was number 4 That's a stunning opportunity. Huwaei have been the GC's technology partner since day 1. Huawei's world HQ is in Shenzhen, close to English speaking Hong Kong and one of China's 3 main technology cities and probably seen as their Silicon Valley. If the GC were smart they would have tried to replicate with Huwaei what we are trying to do in Shanghai. Base their China stuff out of that 12 million people city. Work the corporates there with the help of Huawei, get into the schools there with a footy program and they can then do all the sponsorship, corporate network, education, tourism, trade, sports diplomacy, linking in with Chinese community in Oz stuff. But it doesn't happen overnight and it takes a long term commitment. If you don't make that commitment you wont have the opportunity to reap those long term benefits.

On the $$$ versus "the good of the game" front it is important to acknowledge that there is substantial overlap. More revenue means more means to invest "in the game" and more interest in the game means more revenue.

I think there is a valid case to be made that rather than "overlap" the league has often assumed "synonymity" (i.e. what increases revenues is unambiguously good for the game) resulting in decisions made that might increase revenues at the margins at the expense of hard-to-value "good of the game" aspects

In terms of the shanghai venture it seems a no brainer from what I can see, including for the Gold Coast as you have pointed out. Anyone "embarrassed" by it probably should reflect on why they react to it in that way rather than just assume this is a normal well-adjusted reaction

 

[Jason K]

But they have real interest in these places and sellout 80,000 seat stadiums without issue. The AFL need to giveaway tickets and get expats to rock up.

Both, last year, and this years games were sold out months in advance

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

On the $$$ versus "the good of the game" front it is important to acknowledge that there is substantial overlap. More revenue means more means to invest "in the game" and more interest in the game means more revenue.

I think there is a valid case to be made that rather than "overlap" the league has often assumed "synonymity" (i.e. what increases revenues is unambiguously good for the game) resulting in decisions made that might increase revenues at the margins at the expense of hard-to-value "good of the game" aspects

In terms of the shanghai venture it seems a no brainer from what I can see, including for the Gold Coast as you have pointed out. Anyone "embarrassed" by it probably should reflect on why they react to it in that way rather than just assume this is a normal well-adjusted reaction

Yeah there is a lot of overlap. If you can get 8-10 million Chinese watching the game regularly in 10-15 years time then there is enough TV monies there to make the venture worthwhile. A s**t load of those Oz-China trade businesses would want to advertise in that slot.

Get it into the schools as part of a structured PE program also helps. I played Gaelic footy for PE before I ever saw it on TV a few years later, so it was easy to understand as soon as they started broadcasting the GF from Crooke Park, even before that 1984 tour to Ireland of the Oz players.

People forget that in the US when ESPN was a few years old around 1985, when they only had minor sports TV deals, they showed the VFL at 11pm East Coast time and it picked up a decent audience in USA and Canada and maybe as much as 3m used to tune into at least a game or two over a season and it become a bit of a novelty to have a look. But by about 1992, ESPN become ESPN 1, 2 and 3 as they got rights to the big 4 sports and footy was put on at 2am in the morning and that small but niche audience dropped off. I had dozens, no hundreds of yanks and Canadians ask me about footy between 1986 and 1992, before I lived a year in north america in 1988-89, whilst I was living there, and then the first few years I came back home.

There is plenty overlap. What there isn't, is a quick sugar hit. As I said before, us footy fans are programmed to think, one week at a time, one quarter at a time, one contest at a time.

 

[JohnHinckleyJr]

I think they are just following the NFL's lead (again) & there must be a bit of coin in it but not the multi millions that club & AFL officials would like us to believe because, to put it simply, why would there be?

Why not monopoly guy

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Because AFL.

FWIW a lot of codes around the world play games in other countries.

Not that Im necessarily on board with the AFL doing it, but its hardly a novel concept.

It is when your game is so unique to your country and has such low overseas TV support.

Please don't tell me you are comparing NBA and NFL games in London, with an AFL game in Beijing.

 

[M Malice]

I came to this thread ready to go all , but after having a good read through it NoobPie and RussellEbertHandball have convinced me to hold fire on my scepticism. I really love this game, who knows in 20-50 years time we may have a nice niche market in China and elsewhere. I wont be around to find out though...unfortunately.

 

[juss]

It is when your game is so unique to your country and has such low overseas TV support.

Please don't tell me you are comparing NBA and NFL games in London, with an AFL game in Beijing.

Not as a direct comparison of viability, but there are multiple codes that play outside their native country, that concept is not new is what I'm trying to say.