Religion Irreligion - the world's fastest growing 'religion'

What is your affliation?

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before we move to evolution

and I'm all over the narrative even more than the creation
Look forward to it.

you need to understand context

what came before development?
Science doesn't know what was before the 'big bang'. Haven't I said that?

There's a few hypotheses. Perhaps nothing. But then define 'nothing'. Perhaps another universe or a different version of our own. Perhaps a sea of universes, each with a different set of laws dictating its physical reality

Is our universe the offspring of another, older universe? In other words an immeasurable multiverse scenario. As possible as an immortal, supernatural being /deity that is the perfect, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient originator/creator and ruler of the universe that exists outside of time and space.

All totally speculative though.

But if you prefer to instead think that some supernatural being or deity is originator/creator and ruler of the universe, you go for it.

NOT Darwin's THEORY on evolution
Ooooo. Does this mean I have to again explain what a scentific fact and a scientific theory is.
 
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jason pm

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look mate

once you answer that satisfactorily.. I'll give you a very nice debate on mankind AND NOT Darwin's THEORY on evolution

you have not thought about this much have you?

lol

one of the worst things about modern educated man is the lack of intellect and critical thought

intellect is abstract thinking not memory and repeat

memory and repeat might be false too!

anyway you'll need to give me the origin of the universe and we can move on

God created development also...


but let's hear your theory on what created the big bang!

we shall skip the evidence and proof

but we need to continue in some kind of context as we might have to revisit origin with humanity
and your theory of evolution

lol
The capitalizing of the word theory conveys a dismissive mindset, I don't think you have a full understanding of what a SCIENTIFIC theory is THS.

scientific theory


noun
a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the naturalworld and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation:the scientific theory of evolution.

__________________________________________________

A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment.[1][2] In circumstances not amenable to experimental testing, theories are evaluated through principles of abductive reasoning. Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge.[3]

The meaning of the term scientific theory (often contracted to theory for brevity) as used in the disciplines of science is significantly different from the common vernacular usage of theory.[4][Note 1] In everyday speech, theory can imply an explanation that represents an unsubstantiated and speculative guess,[4]whereas in science it describes an explanation that has been tested and widely accepted as valid. These different usages are comparable to the opposing usages of prediction in science versus common speech, where it denotes a mere hope.
 

TheHeatleyStand

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I'm going to get him to prove it again
and it can't be

which is why it's a theory and has never been elevated to Darwin's law! I'm also waiting on him to explain what caused the big bang... so we can proceed!
and right! we can assume the big bang happened.. but to give it any real relevance to the discussion we need to define why it went BANG! because we are discussing the origin of the universe through religion and or science! so it's a critical part to all this.. and not a minor role if we are going to debate this properly...



The capitalizing of the word theory conveys a dismissive mindset, I don't think you have a full understanding of what a SCIENTIFIC theory is THS.

scientific theory


noun
a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the naturalworld and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation:the scientific theory of evolution.

__________________________________________________

A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment.[1][2] In circumstances not amenable to experimental testing, theories are evaluated through principles of abductive reasoning. Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge.[3]

The meaning of the term scientific theory (often contracted to theory for brevity) as used in the disciplines of science is significantly different from the common vernacular usage of theory.[4][Note 1] In everyday speech, theory can imply an explanation that represents an unsubstantiated and speculative guess,[4]whereas in science it describes an explanation that has been tested and widely accepted as valid. These different usages are comparable to the opposing usages of prediction in science versus common speech, where it denotes a mere hope.

I'm hoping to get to Darwin's THEORY soon.. but we need context to get to mankind and therefore we must begin from the beginning

man didn't come before the universe was created...


There we go... cause and effect again...

I think it all ties in brilliantly
 

TheHeatleyStand

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This is how I see evolution. As machines have evolved the human spirit has devolved. Hence the rise in the irreligious. Or... look a black hole that means we are really clever and there is no God because look it’s a black hole.
Black hole sounds racist

are we allowed to say black hole?


what I find fascinating is all the different people and species all who crawled out of the water because lightning hit non organic matter and made it organic... and from there a bunch of other random stuff ended up with all of us here and our dogs and fleas...

to me Darwin was amazing to have come up with that and people walking around believing it

what a chaotic world and it's billions and billions of random but natural selective months ..and from that we have the pure harmony and symphony of everything working like clockwork ;)...


sounds like a great argument for Hitler's eugenics program lol (1800s and before the discovery of chromosomes ( which we don't believe anymore either) and DNA)

but we will delve into that soon I hope!


I really can't wait.
 

TheHeatleyStand

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by the way

I wonder why new species of animals are not being fashioned out any longeri

I mean we do crossbreed dogs and stuff but they're limited to dogs

and citrus can be citrus

we can mutate a donkey and horse to create a mule but that can't have offspring


I can't wait for this

PsSsssst I'm giving you clues


but not nearly any huge points I'm going to ask of Darwin's THEORY!


The origin of the universe must be answered first

even if no facts, evidence or proof

but be careful because we might need to refer back to it to make sense of any of all this!
 
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If these religious types still controlled knowledge and how we understand the world we live in:
- the world would still be flat
- the world would be 6,000 years old
- every animal would be descendant from Noah’s arc; and my fav...
- priests would still be making bank from selling tickets to heaven.
 

jason pm

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If these religious types still controlled knowledge and how we understand the world we live in:
- the world would still be flat
- the world would be 6,000 years old
- every animal would be descendant from Noah’s arc; and my fav...
- priests would still be making bank from selling tickets to heaven.
And there would also be a lot more Pedophile Pell's around shoving their opinions and whatever else they can down children's throats.... with the church hierarchy giving tacit approval to it.

Institutionalized religions really are an abomination. I don't need no fairy tale creature to give me a moral compass or tell me right from wrong in fact if you need that to do the right thing I worry about your motivations. Empathy and compassion needs to come from you not imposed by a make believe hypocritical authority figure/institution.
 
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I'm also waiting on him to explain what caused the big bang... so we can proceed!
Once again. Science doesn't know what was before or what caused the 'big bang'.

But a hypotheses of perhaps our universe being the offspring of another universe or a different version of our own universe seems as plausible as that of an immortal, supernatural being /deity that is the perfect, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient originator/creator and ruler of the universe that exists outside of time and space.

and right! we can assume the big bang happened..
Well done. Exactly my point. The available scientific evidence seems to support that theory.
 

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TheHeatleyStand

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If these religious types still controlled knowledge and how we understand the world we live in:
- the world would still be flat
- the world would be 6,000 years old
- every animal would be descendant from Noah’s arc; and my fav...
- priests would still be making bank from selling tickets to heaven.
actually why would the world be flat?

only western Europe believd that
not the Hellenes or the orthodox in Constantinople

they were both religious

without Christisnity you wouldn't even be here

atheism never created anything great

think about the picks in northern Britain or the Goths

do you know history?

get to know history

Christisnity provided the impetus that was western civilization

and before you go on about its crappy stuff like slavery and invasions

I'll remind you every tribe invaded the next tribe and took slaves

but it was Christisnity that abolished it first

consider this

There are literally millions of slaves in Africa today!


and there were wars as invasions in every corner of the globe forever

and you are not here in isolation my friend

everything you know almost has been ushered in to you by Christianity

everything including how you live your life today
 

TheHeatleyStand

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Once again. Science doesn't know what was before or what caused the 'big bang'.



Well done. Exactly my point. The available scientific evidence seems to support that theory.
that's not your point at all

The point is creation.. and you can't say what created the universe

science doesnt have the cause to what created the universe

your can't begin with the big bang because something had to happen first

without having a theory on what created the big bang the big bang is a useless idea

I'll tell you why

because you've caught it in the transition

like saying the universe began with the dinosaur age with a big bang

obviously it didn't because there was a context to it before that

you might as well begin with the year 35 BC
because well because that's something you might know something about

The truth is when you're talking creation of the universe you can't begin at any point whether it's the big bang or 35 BC because something happened before that to kick it off

without knowing there's no point beginning anywhere

and if you believe in spontaneous universe combustion you must believe stuff happens from nothing and there's zillions of these big bangs going on all the time

either you don't have the understanding of this
or you're playing possum

which is it?
 

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If these religious types still controlled knowledge and how we understand the world we live in:
- the world would still be flat
- the world would be 6,000 years old
- every animal would be descendant from Noah’s arc; and my fav...
- priests would still be making bank from selling tickets to heaven.
The Church never taught that the world was flat. Nor did they ever teach that the earth was 6000 years old.
People cottoned on pretty early that Old Testament scripture was not a science book.

Clement of Alexandria
“And how could creation take place in time, seeing time was born along with things which exist? . . . That, then, we may be taught that the world was originated and not suppose that God made it in time, prophecy adds: ‘This is the book of the generation, also of the things in them, when they were created in the day that God made heaven and earth’ [Gen. 2:4]. For the expression ‘when they were created’ intimates an indefinite and dateless production. But the expression ‘in the day that God made them,’ that is, in and by which God made ‘all things,’ and ‘without which not even one thing was made,’ points out the activity exerted by the Son” (Miscellanies 6:16 [A.D. 208]).
 
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The point is creation.. and you can't say what created the universe
No I can't. I've stated that repeatedly.

Neither can you say what created the universe.

There is considerable scientific evidence that supports the Big Bang Theory.
 

TheHeatleyStand

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orthodoxy and eastern Rome was influenced by Plato and the ancient Greeks
The West and Catholicism went it's own way after the schism
when Constantinople fell to the ottomans many of Rome ( Constantinople version and orthodox left and went West with their Plato and Aristotle philosophy
plethon was one of these who was actually a Byzantine pagan philosopher and not orthodox in religion) it was they that reintroduced the West who were usurped by Franks to all of this knowledge
that kicked off the Renaissance and out of the dark ages!

Charlemagne couldn't even read or write

what do they expect?
 

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No I can't. I've stated that repeatedly.

Neither can you say what created the universe.

There is considerable scientific evidence that supports the Big Bang Theory.
Pretty hard to get a point across when the person you are conversing with comes from the base of- I don't need to provide evidence of anything as I have faith ALTHOUGH you must provide evidence of your claims...... which you have, unbelievable really.

It really is the quintessential god of the gaps standpoint.
 

TheHeatleyStand

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No I can't. I've stated that repeatedly.

Neither can you say what created the universe.

There is considerable scientific evidence that supports the Big Bang Theory.
how's the big bang theory create the universe,?

lol

it can't because it is one period in time same as 356 BC
something had to have happened before

it's one of the staples of science

cause and effect

There can be no effect without cause

you're sounding very voodoo right now
 
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how's the big bang theory create the universe,?
Do you have trouble with basic comprehension?

Which bit of what I said in Post #3377.....

"The "Big Bang" summarises the most widely-accepted scientific theory of how the known universe developed into its present state. Note that the Big-Bang theory does NOT attempt to describe the initial conditions or first cause of the universe. The theory merely addresses the development of the universe from its extremely dense and hot early stages into its present form."........


didn't you understand?

I even underlined and capitalised the relevant part so you can re-read it slowly and carefully.
 

TheHeatleyStand

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Pretty hard to get a point across when the person you are conversing with comes from the base of- I don't need to provide evidence of anything as I have faith ALTHOUGH you must provide evidence of your claims...... which you have, unbelievable really.

It really is the quintessential god of the gaps standpoint.
I know this is frustrating for you because you've chosen science over faith

but science doesn't hit the mark so of course you're lashing out at me

earlier today you are telling me that uneducated nations are religious
and educated believe in science

but you're unable to display how your version of society is actually more intelligent than religious societies

I even asked you to define educated

and pointed out you have a very supremacist version of the world

The other guy is going to teach us all about the laws of eugenics as being natural when he finally gives us an answer to what caused the big bang

yes I know you're frustrated with me being a believer but I'm very reasonable with how I'm laying out my logic to display why faith is my conclusion over voodoo science narrative which doesn't make any sense

I can only choose the more logical of the two

and I can't go with something that is trying to say that no cause created a singular affect which has never been seen again in billions of years

I'm sorry man!

I've actually grown to like you!

I'm hoping you can be more sensitive to believers even if you think et believe because we have no education!

and if we were educated ( even though you can't prove anything from your narrative) we would also be non believers and live in countries swallowed by debt who no longer have any greatness or beauty in culture and live a nihilistic existence chasing digital currency addicted to drugs, alcohol and stuff

and thinking we're all important even though we die and go nowhere
what a waste)
 

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No I can't. I've stated that repeatedly.

Neither can you say what created the universe.

There is considerable scientific evidence that supports the Big Bang Theory.
Does not the universe know what created it? A Big Bang and then nek minut.. “ Our Father who art in Heaven ...
 

TheHeatleyStand

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Do you have trouble with basic comprehension?

Which bit of what I said in Post #3377.....

"The "Big Bang" summarises the most widely-accepted scientific theory of how the known universe developed into its present state. Note that the Big-Bang theory does NOT attempt to describe the initial conditions or first cause of the universe. The theory merely addresses the development of the universe from its extremely dense and hot early stages into its present form."........

didn't you understand?

I even underlined and capitalised the relevant part so you can re-read it slowly and carefully.
why can't the beginning of the universe address that?

how do you have a beginning that is not a beginning?

why must I keep asking you this?

we're talking about creation and you're not answering what happened in the beginning

you're actually saying science " doesnt attempt to answer it" big bang blah blah

don't you see the folly in your argument?

you're locked into a debate about creation but you're choosing the starting date yourself instead of going all the way back to the beginning

what happened to cause the bang

and why was there only one bang and nothing since billions of years ago has gone bang out in isolation and without cause?

are there billions of universes all over the place?

and if so how do you know?

why was there only one that was caused out of nothing and if it wasn't caused out of nothing what caused it?


do you need to dial a friend?
 

TheHeatleyStand

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There is a reason why i stopped posting in these threads, the 2 pages made it absolutely clear why i dont want to be associated with "creationists". Have fun ladies and gents. Just as bad as those militant atheists.

we are just discussing the universe

why must it be an easy topic?

lol

I mean we're not the only ones to have come to a conclusion easily

maybe you have one?
 
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