Roast Irritating things.

[_RT_]

Funny enough when we were down in the first quarter against the Lions the wife and I looked at each other and agreed that seeing as we lost the only game we led at quarter time this year we weren't concerned.

We definitely need to improve those first quarters, but to my mind this needs to be addressed throughout the season. If it happens in a final or not I can't see it somehow playing on the players minds more or less than the existing problem (I'm talking about future years here - not necessarily the outcome of a particular final). One thing the boys HAVE done this year is not give up when we've been on the end of a first quarter hiding. Personally I just cant see the downside of playing in a final. Even if we did get thumped I can see benefits in experience, memberships, development, merchandise sales etc etc etc.

I can see the benefit making finals would make to memberships & merchandise sales, even if we were to get smacked. However I believe in terms of experience & development we would get a lot more benefit if we are able to compete in the finals and I reckon that is how Hardwick and co see it as well.

Don't get me wrong if come the end of round 24 we find ourselves in 7th/8th spot and playing finals I'll be as happy as anyone that we're there, I just don't want to be satisfied with just making it, I want to see us in there with an even chance of winning the game as well.

 

[CoggaRules]

Can i just a say a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has actually been very enjoyable to read. There's been some great points raised by everyone and it's good the points of view haven't degraded into slanging matches. I take on board what has been said, but still not sold personally. We have come a long way from 15th on the ladder and round 9 last year, i just want permanent success, not a flash in the pan (like everybody else). I love the Tigers and i love Bazzar. Keep up the good work and passion everyone.

Topping it off with a nice warm touching moment, for all tigerheads to reflect on and understand there is a place for romance in this forum amongst all the vitriol and arguments,

 

[captain blood 17]

Topping it off with a nice warm touching moment, for all tigerheads to reflect on and understand there is a place for romance in this forum amongst all the vitriol and arguments,

Plenty of love for you too big guy

 

[captain blood 17]

I can see the benefit making finals would make to memberships & merchandise sales, even if we were to get smacked. However I believe in terms of experience & development we would get a lot more benefit if we are able to compete in the finals and I reckon that is how Hardwick and co see it as well.

Don't get me wrong if come the end of round 24 we find ourselves in 7th/8th spot and playing finals I'll be as happy as anyone that we're there, I just don't want to be satisfied with just making it, I want to see us in there with an even chance of winning the game as well.

Absolutely.

 

[rammbo]

Can i just a say a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has actually been very enjoyable to read. There's been some great points raised by everyone and it's good the points of view haven't degraded into slanging matches. I take on board what has been said, but still not sold personally. We have come a long way from 15th on the ladder and round 9 last year, i just want permanent success, not a flash in the pan (like everybody else). I love the Tigers and i love Bazzar. Keep up the good work and passion everyone.

R you serious we all want a flash in the pan performance that nearly topped we dont want to play finals crap.

 

[captain blood 17]

R you serious we all want a flash in the pan performance that nearly topped we dont want to play finals crap.

Rammbo my apprenti i am always serious. That's the problem with all you young buckeroos, you want everything now and instant, me i can wait the extra 20 rounds (only if it then ends in finals or i will be ringing "the gecko").
It's a critical juncture in the clubs history that could see us really seriously compete with the big boys if we get it right.

 

[IDGAF]

All up between juniours and seniors i played footy for around 15 years before i blew out my knee ... and funnily enough ... i never at any stage whether it be by my own choice or a coachs , do i remember thinking ..."maybe we shouldnt try so hard so because we aint ready"

I know local footy is a world away from AFL but the my point is i would want instilled into our boys from the get go that every time you run out onto that ground you give every ounce of blood , sweat and tears to win a game of footy , as it does for any kid running around on a Saturday or Sunday morning ... with the mindset of winning enough games to play finals .... and should fate decree that we win enough games to be in the best 8 teams that get to play finals then so be it .

I just do not buy this carp that it would set us back should we make it ... thats bullshit. Cotchin and Martin ? Would be a huge part in the making of those kids .

Success breeds success

For years we had a team that included Knights , cambo , Richo , Brodders and others who consistently fell short of the mark . If this lot right now can make it whats that tell you about them ?

And seriously for arguements sake , who from 5-8 scares you anyway ?

You can draw a parallel with Essendon a couple of years ago but they are a totally different circumstance , they were a patched up , cobbled list who scratched together enough wins to scrape in with a bit of luck involved , fact is they @rsed one on the way down ... our rollercoaster is heading in the other direction .

The momentum that would be generated both on and off the field for our club should we jag a final would be immeasurable , i reckon a minimum 5-10 k members next year on top of out 50k this year .

 

[telsor]

OK, lets say we make finals, and get spanked by a team who stepped up for the occasion while we went all "deer in the headlights".


Next year, players have had a full preseason to get over the scars, and we make finals again, and we have 22 players who have a better knowledge know the pace, hardness and ferocity required to play finals and wont be surprised by it again.


Or, we miss the finals this year and next year we mae them, and game 1, the players get run over by a team that steps up while we stand there shocked.


Better to do it this year I say.

 

[rammbo]

Rammbo my apprenti i am always serious. That's the problem with all you young buckeroos, you want everything now and instant, me i can wait the extra 20 rounds (only if it then ends in finals or i will be ringing "the gecko").
It's a critical juncture in the clubs history that could see us really seriously compete with the big boys if we get it right.

you may b old but i dont think ya very wise even if we just scraped in and got caned in the first final that would b far better than comn 9th for the club players and supporters. and for the record im not that young and retired from footy at age 45 4 years ago .

 

[captain blood 17]

All up between juniours and seniors i played footy for around 15 years before i blew out my knee ... and funnily enough ... i never at any stage whether it be by my own choice or a coachs , do i remember thinking ..."maybe we shouldnt try so hard so because we aint ready"

I know local footy is a world away from AFL but the my point is i would want instilled into our boys from the get go that every time you run out onto that ground you give every ounce of blood , sweat and tears to win a game of footy , as it does for any kid running around on a Saturday or Sunday morning ... with the mindset of winning enough games to play finals .... and should fate decree that we win enough games to be in the best 8 teams that get to play finals then so be it .

I just do not buy this carp that it would set us back should we make it ... thats bullshit. Cotchin and Martin ? Would be a huge part in the making of those kids .

Success breeds success

For years we had a team that included Knights , cambo , Richo , Brodders and others who consistently fell short of the mark . If this lot right now can make it whats that tell you about them ?

And seriously for arguements sake , who from 5-8 scares you anyway ?

You can draw a parallel with Essendon a couple of years ago but they are a totally different circumstance , they were a patched up , cobbled list who scratched together enough wins to scrape in with a bit of luck involved , fact is they @rsed one on the way down ... our rollercoaster is heading in the other direction .

The momentum that would be generated both on and off the field for our club should we jag a final would be immeasurable , i reckon a minimum 5-10 k members next year on top of out 50k this year .

Big fella, how are you? There is no doubt the financials would go gang busters if we make it, memberships etc. I could have drawn out the Geelong game in '95 when the club got ahead of itself or 2001 for that matter, but it seems we have learned from our past ghosts. It would be an amazing performance to take a team that was 0-9 last season to finals this year (in Harwicks 2nd year. I just don't reckon we are ready if we make it, and won't be able to compete. It's early days, and as i've previously stated, my point is about sustained longterm success. Time will tell.

 

[captain blood 17]

you may b old but i dont think ya very wise even if we just scraped in and got caned in the first final that would b far better than comn 9th for the club players and supporters. and for the record im not that young and retired from footy at age 45 4 years ago .

Only joking with you Rammbo. It's just a different point of view i'm putting up, and i'm glad for this passion it's stirred up (some of the reading was getting a little stale). I respect your opinion, and put it this way, we make finals this year, everyones happy, we make finals next year, everyone's happy. There isn't a lose lose in this.

 

[nut]

I will say that every game this season when the players ran out we wanted to win.
I will also say that the match committee picked players for the future rather than short term success. THIS WHAT WE WANT THEM TO DO..... Play the youngsters and find which ones will be in our future.

It's like when Wallace told Richo he will be played on the wing or at Coburg so we could develop Reiwoldt. Richo at the time was 10 times the player Reiwoldt was but it help fast track him. Thats what we are doing.... we are fast tracking our youngsters in expense of shot term success.

The big Difference now and when Richo was playing is that we are full of kids.... Tuck is about the only player being kept out because of age/development.

Come rounds 21-24 and we have a sniff of a spot in the finals and we cop an injury or 2 Tuck will come back in... maybe even Thursfield.... who knows.

Yes we want to make the eight but not at the expense of player development.

 

[Bazzar]

Gotta remember if we end up 8th we play 5th, end up 7th we play 6th.

Excluding Collingwood, Geelong and maybe the Tankers, their is no standout team below them. With momentum and the chance of a final at the G we would have just a good a chance at pinching an elimination final as the rest.

I love the Tigers and i love Bazzar.

And i love the Tigers and i love you to

 

[IDGAF]

Big fella, how are you? There is no doubt the financials would go gang busters if we make it, memberships etc. I could have drawn out the Geelong game in '95 when the club got ahead of itself or 2001 for that matter, but it seems we have learned from our past ghosts. It would be an amazing performance to take a team that was 0-9 last season to finals this year (in Harwicks 2nd year. I just don't reckon we are ready if we make it, and won't be able to compete. It's early days, and as i've previously stated, my point is about sustained longterm success. Time will tell.

I'm well mate all things considered ... hows tricks with you ?

... i'm under no illusions that it would be pretty miraculous to make it to the second week of the finals . Dont think anyone on here at all would think we are a shot at the title just yet .

Part of the learning curve is learning to win ... often ... and seeing first hand whats needed to win in a final where its played on a different level would only fast-track us IMHO .

... and i dont believe we got ahead of ourselves in 95 , board-room infighting and some shocking choices are what snuffed that out . poor list management , Walls ... nuff said

 

[IDGAF]

Gotta remember if we end up 8th we play 5th, end up 7th we play 6th.

Excluding Collingwood, Geelong and maybe the Tankers, their is no standout team below them. With momentum and the chance of a final at the G we would have just a good a chance at pinching an elimination final as the rest.

... yes

 

[_RT_]

I will say that every game this season when the players ran out we wanted to win.
I will also say that the match committee picked players for the future rather than short term success. THIS WHAT WE WANT THEM TO DO..... Play the youngsters and find which ones will be in our future.

It's like when Wallace told Richo he will be played on the wing or at Coburg so we could develop Reiwoldt. Richo at the time was 10 times the player Reiwoldt was but it help fast track him. Thats what we are doing.... we are fast tracking our youngsters in expense of shot term success.

The big Difference now and when Richo was playing is that we are full of kids.... Tuck is about the only player being kept out because of age/development.

Come rounds 21-24 and we have a sniff of a spot in the finals and we cop an injury or 2 Tuck will come back in... maybe even Thursfield.... who knows.

Yes we want to make the eight but not at the expense of player development.

Perfectly put Nut. Its not about what happens this year that matters.

 

[The Goon]

Perfectly put Nut. Its not about what happens this year that matters.

I think we're all on board with that. All other things being equal though, I think we'd get good experience etc out of playing a final this year (even though I suspect we'll fall short of the 8). I don't think anyones advocating sacrificing development in a desperate scramble for 8th place. But if we get there I'm not worried about mental scarring or anything if we're rolled, we all know, team included, that this is a development year.

 

[Bazzar]

How is it possible we could sacrifice development for a scramble to the finals

To do that we would have to drop who and bring in who? Those who mention Tuck or Thurstfield are way of it because briging those in are the only ones i can think of, and would be a backward step in the quality of the team and type of footy we are playing. We dont have anyone else that fits into that category.

Their is not one player available from Coburg who hasnt been a regular in this years best 22 that could come in and with the sacrifice of development make us a better side.

 

[Grockadoc]

• I am yet to see any player step up from the reserves and have a consistent impact or contribution. Blokes like Gourdis, Morton, Tuck, shouldn't get games for the sake of bringing them in.
• We don't want to make the finals this year. I want to see finals action so, so bad, but i promise you, if we make it, we will be obliterated. We are not ready. It could have the opposite effect, and set us back a year. It's about prolonged success, i'd rather wait till next year if it meant possibly 6-8 years of consistent finals action.
• Hislop will play his final game in the seniors either this week or next.

I agree with all but these points. The first point I would like to point out Andrew Browne's form. Has been pretty good for someone coming straight from the VFL. Also regarding the bringing them in for the sake of bringing them in I don't agree in. Gourdis should have been brought in on the back of 3 BOG's for Coburg after Astbury went down. It would have been bringing him in to address a need, rather than the sake of bringing him in.

The second point I totally disagree with. You would rather us lose a couple of games so we won't be obliterated in a final? Dude, think of the ramifications. If we make finals, then our membership will go up. The fact is, if we can make finals this year, we can sure as hell make them next year. So why not start the 6-8 years of finals appearances as soon as possible? Get them into a pressure atmosphere as soon as possible so they know what it is like. If they experience it this year, then we are all the better for it for next year, or for when we do in fact make finals.

I have encountered this in my own football. Last year I was playing seniors for my local side. We needed to win the last 2 games to make the finals, as the team in 8th had the bye the very last round. Anyway we won our second last match by about 14 goals, and it came down to us V the wooden spooners. Our coach told us that we were physically not ready, nor mentally ready for finals. As such, he told us that we would have to lose the match. Half of the team walked out. We forfeited and our 5 best players walked to a different club.

If we are in a position to make finals such as we are now, we need to take it. If Dimma wants us to lose to protect us and get us ready for next year then some of the players might not like it and request a trade. Highly unlikely but Footy is played to make finals. If we can do so, go for it.

And the third point. The Hislop bashing on this board is outrageous. He may not be the most skilled, or the classiest player, but he does give one hundred percent and his defensive work is fantastic. With Nahas playing more midfield, Hislop is the suitable replacement as a defensive forward pocket/half forward. He has played 2-3 games coming back from a serious injury. Give him a fair go. He was Coburgs best for a month and he needs to get games into him. His disposal has improved dramatically and so has his decision making. To me he seems a little hesitant to push his body, however, once he gets past it, he should come on.

Just my two cents.

 

[nut]

Perfectly put Nut. Its not about what happens this year that matters.

Where's my love???

[YOUTUBE]OzQKECQgjW8[/YOUTUBE]

 

[_RT_]

I think we're all on board with that. All other things being equal though, I think we'd get good experience etc out of playing a final this year (even though I suspect we'll fall short of the 8). I don't think anyones advocating sacrificing development in a desperate scramble for 8th place. But if we get there I'm not worried about mental scarring or anything if we're rolled, we all know, team included, that this is a development year.

I never suggested that we would suffer mental scarring by getting thumped, just don't think we'd get as much out of it by getting thumped.

 

[tugga]

I want us to play finals. I think that's all I have to say.

 

[_RT_]

Hmm a little bit of interesting reading:

RICHMOND has waited three years to be this close to the top eight so deep into the AFL season.
But for Alex Rance and his Tigers teammates, it's still far too early to dare to dream.

Richmond and Melbourne clash on Saturday at the MCG and the winner will go into the eight if Hawthorn beat Essendon on Friday night.

Rance said regardless of their position on the ladder, Richmond for now were concentrating on improving their game.

"Dimma (coach Damien Hardwick) has been pretty good with us at making sure that it is mainly just focussed on us and getting our stuff right, developing it that way, instead of looking at the larger picture," Rance said.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...es-not-top-eight/story-e6frf9jf-1226079447530

To me it comes across as if we make finals well and good but if not well its not what we're about at this stage.

 

[The Goon]

Hmm a little bit of interesting reading:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...es-not-top-eight/story-e6frf9jf-1226079447530

To me it comes across as if we make finals well and good but if not well its not what we're about at this stage.

Could not agree more.

I never suggested that we would suffer mental scarring by getting thumped, just don't think we'd get as much out of it by getting thumped.

I wasn't suggesting you did RT. Just saying that it wouldn't affect us that way if we did get thumped (as others have suggested this may be the case). Having said that, experience, memberships, money etc - I think we would get a hell of a lot out of playing in a final regardless of any result. Happy for you to disagree, but we're going around in circles a bit here so I'll leave it at that.

 

[captain blood 17]

I agree with all but these points. The first point I would like to point out Andrew Browne's form. Has been pretty good for someone coming straight from the VFL. Also regarding the bringing them in for the sake of bringing them in I don't agree in. Gourdis should have been brought in on the back of 3 BOG's for Coburg after Astbury went down. It would have been bringing him in to address a need, rather than the sake of bringing him in.

The second point I totally disagree with. You would rather us lose a couple of games so we won't be obliterated in a final? Dude, think of the ramifications. If we make finals, then our membership will go up. The fact is, if we can make finals this year, we can sure as hell make them next year. So why not start the 6-8 years of finals appearances as soon as possible? Get them into a pressure atmosphere as soon as possible so they know what it is like. If they experience it this year, then we are all the better for it for next year, or for when we do in fact make finals.

I have encountered this in my own football. Last year I was playing seniors for my local side. We needed to win the last 2 games to make the finals, as the team in 8th had the bye the very last round. Anyway we won our second last match by about 14 goals, and it came down to us V the wooden spooners. Our coach told us that we were physically not ready, nor mentally ready for finals. As such, he told us that we would have to lose the match. Half of the team walked out. We forfeited and our 5 best players walked to a different club.

If we are in a position to make finals such as we are now, we need to take it. If Dimma wants us to lose to protect us and get us ready for next year then some of the players might not like it and request a trade. Highly unlikely but Footy is played to make finals. If we can do so, go for it.

And the third point. The Hislop bashing on this board is outrageous. He may not be the most skilled, or the classiest player, but he does give one hundred percent and his defensive work is fantastic. With Nahas playing more midfield, Hislop is the suitable replacement as a defensive forward pocket/half forward. He has played 2-3 games coming back from a serious injury. Give him a fair go. He was Coburgs best for a month and he needs to get games into him. His disposal has improved dramatically and so has his decision making. To me he seems a little hesitant to push his body, however, once he gets past it, he should come on.

Just my two cents.

Mate all good points. Bloody bizarro footy story though.