Is 18 Teams two too many?

[Dangerousfield]

No different to saying that axing 2 of the underperforming Victorian clubs would do the same.

Thats also fact

Except axing the two worst Vic teams wouldn't distribute as much talent!

 

[Colonial]

Except axing the two worst Vic teams wouldn't distribute as much talent!

Im sure itd help. All even out in the end.

Supposedly. According to BF.

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[These 4 Walls]

18 teams is not too bad given the population of Australia and the desire to be Australia's national game.

Do you wait for the number of players that are to the quality fill 18 teams, or do you create extra teams in growth areas so that it helps accelerate that time-frame?

Sometimes visions need to be short sighted to make sure that they exist in the long term. The financial position of the AFL lately means that the vision can be long terms and this is the right call. Every. Single. Time.

18 teams, 15-20 years of pain. Re-assess & possibly re-expand.

 

[Viceregal]

I don't mind the idea of two divisions with variable membership (eg odds vs evens from the previous year etc) so that there is a more equitable balance in lieu of the current fixture ... I *do* think that any permanent split and especially anything with relegations and promotions in it would just lead to a more structured version of haves and have nots (eg how much more sponsorships interest in the top league over the bottom one ... players avoiding B league teams like the plague etc)

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Still the VFL clings on...2 teams from Vic need to go saints and north would be the first in the block. Bulldogs saved themselves.
To the numpties saying get rid of the interstate teams eho do you think saved your sorry little VFL in the first place?

GWS and GC saved us numpties??

 

[Leviathan Pie]

Yes.

 

[Schulzycrow]

GWS and GC saved us numpties??

No the Eagles, Crows, Power did.

 

[Knox Harrington]

The 'interstate' clubs should aim to form their own league. With a team from Tassie they'll cover five states and can call themselves the Real Australian Football League and let the VFL clubs and fans get their hearts' desire, which is to play other VFL clubs at the MCG and call themselves the VFL again.

At the end of the season we could have a finals series between the two conferences with GF at a neutral ground.

Advantages (for 'interstate' clubs):
Mediocre teams won't win premierships through home advantage
End the pretence that a parochial Victorian comp is 'national'
No more Dwayne Russell
Return of State of Origin
Drafting and player movement will get a lot more interesting
'Interstate' clubs will no longer be defined by relationship to Victoria
Melbourne footy media can keep on doing what they're doing


Everyone wins.

Or have the VFL being the viable football league where clubs that actually pay their own way play like essendon. We will get big crowds and have genuine home games and real atmosphere.

Then we can have The CFL being the charity football league where all the plastic invisible clubs like Sydney GWS and others play.

Sadly that comp will be over by round four

 

[Colonial]

Or have the VFL being the viable football league where clubs that actually pay their own way play like essendon. We will get big crowds and have genuine home games and real atmosphere.

Then we can have The CFL being the charity football league where all the plastic invisible clubs like Sydney GWS and others play.

Sadly that comp will be over by round four

Well that was a bitchy little post.

Did you inject yourself with something before posting?

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[Knox Harrington]

Well that was a bitchy little post.

Did you inject yourself with something before posting?

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Think that up yourself? You're in career best posting form like Devon Smith and James Stewart are in career best football form.
Maybe playing for an actual club in front of an actual crowd with actual supporters has merit.

 

[Colonial]

Think that up yourself? You're in career best posting form like Devon Smith and James Stewart are in career best football form.
Maybe playing for an actual club in front of an actual crowd with actual supporters has merit.

Lol you won 1 game. Cocky.

And having every druggo support your health hazard doesnt mean supporters.



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[Since 2001]

I don't believe there are too many teams all. For me the problem is you had 2 teams take all the talent of the draft for around 5 years at the sacrifice of other teams fro 2010 til about 2015. We had two teams take all the top talent and disappointingly some high picks have been major failures due to lack of leadership on and off the field, facilities not being ready, getting pumped every week and losing interest.
Teams with the already existing senior talent dominated for a long time in hawthorn, Geelong and the swans being the major players at the end of the season.

Ladder when gcs entered the league

Ladder when GWS entered

Ladder in 2017:

 

[Since 2001]

Because teams have had less access to the top tier talent, football teams are now having to rely on players who were pick in the 50's and onwards who aren't good enough for best 22 but get in because of the lack of talent depth at clubs now.

 

[Schulzycrow]

Because teams have had less access to the top tier talent, football teams are now having to rely on players who were pick in the 50's and onwards who aren't good enough for best 22 but get in because of the lack of talent depth at clubs now.

Really all comes down to the recruiting team and development coaches being able to identify talent that isn't just playing in the TAC and then developing that talent playing again older harder players in the reserve leagues.

 

[SellarStardom]

It is clear that top tier talent pool isnt that deep and the next level down is fairly solid. The challenge is that there are a tier of players in the State leagues that would arguably be better than the lower level guys in the AFL but were not drafted in their year and dont get into the system.

The other major problem with the current structures is the inability to attract international players. Imagine if a second tier had a capacity to pay half decent coin for a player to develop, most AFL clubs wont waste a spot and State league doesnt pay enough.

The other big issue is that too many teams means that clubs only play each other once in the competition. In european and english football you have divisions so teams in each league play each other often. In the US we have conferences (which suck). Nearly every major sporting league has a major and minor division or conference structure.

A 10 and 10 division 1 and 2 (or 12 and 10) structure would work. The draft would be structured as lottery with added structures for the second division, player payments for moves would allow clubs to grow, loans and mid season drafts would work vetween the leagues and the competition overall would improve. No mergers or new club creations, simply have State league premiers playing off to join the second division. Subiaco in WA and Sturt in SA would have held their own.

The broadcasting benefits are huge and allows relegation and promotion matches to become real draw cards. You could even establish FA Cup style formats.

Structurally I would leave the AFL as the top division and create a National League as second division, possibly owned by the State leagues and the AFL in a JV structure.

 

[RedV3x]

It is clear that top tier talent pool isn't that deep

People get totally confused between standard of play and attractiveness of the game.
The game isn't so attractive today because of the marked INCREASE in defensive talent.
The game was much more attractive when there was a bigger gulf between natural champions and ordinary players.
Today most players are learned champions of incredibly high skill.

The other major problem with the current structures is the inability to attract international players.

Absolute b.s. The AFL can attract any amount of international players. It is the general inability for athletes to bridge the gap to become players that is the the problem. If you're talking 'standards' then overseas is the wrong place too look. There are quite a number of players who have come from overseas leagues playing in lesser leagues in Australia.

The other big issue is that too many teams means that clubs only play each other once in the competition.

Absolutely not a problem. The EPL plays way to many meaningless games and the NFL is over way too quick.
IMO around 20 games per season is optimum for AFL.

Nearly every major sporting league has a major and minor division or conference structure.

The AFL has state leagues. The state leagues carry vast history whereas second divisions are sterile.

The broadcasting benefits are huge and allows relegation and promotion matches to become real draw cards. You could even establish FA Cup style formats.

We had something similar a long time ago and it was a TOTAL FLOP.

Structurally I would leave the AFL as the top division and create a National League as second division, possibly owned by the State leagues and the AFL in a JV structure.

It is much easier to create a second 'national league' by the state premiers playing each other at the end of the season.
These matches would generate enough interest to be self-funding, even profitable.
A second 'national league' or AFL reserve grade would be a total white elephant.

 

[B4Bear]

There is plenty of talent out there in the state and local leagues. Clubs just have to get off their arse and scout them out.

 

[Maylandsman]

It is clear that top tier talent pool isnt that deep and the next level down is fairly solid.

I watched a wafl game on the weekend (peel vs subi) and the skill levels were atrocious. sure there are a few diamonds in the rough but as a collective it was garbage.

 

[Blackas87]

No the Eagles, Crows, Power did.

So you're saying "us interstaters saved you vics, now 2 of you must fold"

Not sure why you interstaters joined and "saved" the vics that you want gone?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

So you're saying "us interstaters saved you vics, now 2 of you must fold"

Not sure why you interstaters joined and "saved" the vics that you want gone?

The SA league clearly didn't want to join the VFL, that's just ignorance of history. WA did, but I'm very confident saving VFL clubs wasn't on their agenda.

 

[dean33]

I think the end goal should eventually be a 20 team competition with each side playing each other twice = 18 rounds. It means less money for the AFL (which would probably be a deal breaker for them) but it would solve the inequalities of the fixture and appease the players who want a shorter season. If necessary, relocate one of the struggling Melbourne clubs to a new market (e.g. North to Hobart although not necessarily).

Then we'd just need to tweak the fixture so that the non-Vic clubs travel less and the Victorian sides travel more. It doesn't need to be perfectly fair but currently 10 interstate games Vs 4-5 is far too big a discrepancy.

It’s all stacked against you interstate sides all the time isn’t it? So maybe 15 Home games for the interstate sides and less homes games for the Victorian clubs? Would that help?

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

The SA league clearly didn't want to join the VFL, that's just ignorance of history. WA did, but I'm very confident saving VFL clubs wasn't on their agenda.

They'd still be rattling tins for player retention schemes to an 80's soundtrack if they had their way.

 

[Blackas87]

The SA league clearly didn't want to join the VFL, that's just ignorance of history. WA did, but I'm very confident saving VFL clubs wasn't on their agenda.

Tell me why did the SA league join the Vics? Why did WA?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Tell me why did the SA league join the Vics? Why did WA?

I'm not going to start an SA shitfight, but the league clearly didn't. Presumably WA decided joining the VFL was the least disastrous option, and meant they could keep stars at home. Saving the struggling VFL was undountedly an unintended consequence.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

They'd still be rattling tins for player retention schemes to an 80's soundtrack if they had their way.

Possibly but I really dont want to go there