Opinion Is a Geelong style review needed?

[Big Bryza]

As has been mentioned above we stuff around with the footy far too much. Which obviously contributes to us having the worse disposal efficiency in the AFL. We play a brand of footy that requires highly skilled footballers which we are clearly lacking. Until we get plenty of footy into Kennedy, Scharenberg, Freeman, Broomhead, Martin, Ramsay, Grundy, Witts (great skill for a big man) alongside Pendles, Sidebottom, Elliott and Beams then we'll remain around the 5-8 mark. We need another key forward as well. Reid needs to be that man. It's exciting to have a first round pick in Darcy Moore coming through.

Right now we have a lot of so so players. Neither stars or duds. We need these youngsters mentioned to take their spots along with future draft picks and lets hope a player or 2 in the Free Agency period.

It's clear to see we have played a part in the injuries we continue to receive each season. We need to rectify our mistakes asap because this can't continue in 2015. 4 years running is more than beyond a joke. Whether its pre season, in season, work loads, recovery periods, training type, it needs to be fixed and fixed quickly.

 

[Kilmo]

Did he catch it or eat it?

He will fix everything

 

[jmac70]

He will fix everything

...as long as he doesn't get injured at training

 

[Kilmo]

...as long as he doesn't get injured at training

Mate I'd be more worried about the damage to Olympic Park than Mason Cox if the two collide.

 

[dirts]

Well what the hell is Rocket doing down there. He should basically be reviewing on a constant basis everything that falls under the football department. In his role shouldn't he? Didn't have this sort of role back in 2006 (happy to be corrected)

Go after Bucks for gameplan or player buy-in etc, but I want to know what Rocket does 9am-5pm (outside of long lunches with Blackmores of course). Unless he just gets a free pass on everything

 

[Robroy22]

The team culture is only one aspect. What are your thoughts about the injury situation?

My thoughts on this you won't like. I'm a realist. When we were flying in 2010 we had nil injuries and a bucketload of young fit players. Since then we've suffered lots. Firstly knees to Brown, Caff, Krak, Keefe, then shoulders to Johnno and Dids and heaps of other niggly things to everyone from Beams to Daisy, Maxy, Dawes, Jolley, Fasolo, Broomy, Reid, Tooves, Frost, Ox, Seedy, Freeman and Scharenburg. Injuries happen unfortunately. Sides that don't get many usually have pretty good years. The fact that we've done so well over the past 7-8 years without half our list is a testament to the club's collective will.

If you want you can sack another fitness staff...but introducing a new lot of sports scientists to the club won't change the luck involved with injuries (just as GAJ)

 

[Markfs]

yes sack the coach and rename the team the collingwood cats..

 

[Starcevich90]

GAJ)[/QUOTE]
I don't think we can just put the injuries down to bad luck any longer. The extraordinary length of time being spent out with common injuries and alarming rate of recurrence points to mismanagement. We should be top of the tree in this area not worst in league three years running.

 

[jmac70]

My thoughts on this you won't like. I'm a realist. When we were flying in 2010 we had nil injuries and a bucketload of young fit players. Since then we've suffered lots. Firstly knees to Brown, Caff, Krak, Keefe, then shoulders to Johnno and Dids and heaps of other niggly things to everyone from Beams to Daisy, Maxy, Dawes, Jolley, Fasolo, Broomy, Reid, Tooves, Frost, Ox, Seedy, Freeman and Scharenburg. Injuries happen unfortunately. Sides that don't get many usually have pretty good years. The fact that we've done so well over the past 7-8 years without half our list is a testament to the club's collective will.

If you want you can sack another fitness staff...but introducing a new lot of sports scientists to the club won't change the luck involved with injuries (just as GAJ)

The reason I ask is that Bucks said today that some of the club's approaches to fitness and training have contributed to injury. It's not just bad luck after all.

 

[Starcevich90]

Sure review it all as they do yearly, but don't panic.
Most would have taken 6th at the start of the season, we are young.
Maybe change the workloads of some players and learn from injury mistakes.

But we are fine, the future is bright.

I'm certainly not having a go at you personally here but why have we been so willing to accept our slide into mediocrity over the past three years, thinking everything will definitely come good?

We had the youngest premiership team in 30-odd years and that's completely gone. One flag is all we will get from that generation. Nowhere near good enough.

We need to be aiming higher than one fluked flag ever 20 or 30 years, so I think a complete review from top to bottom is vital. With nobody spared or favoured.

For a variety of different reasons we have seen proven players depart en masse, and that just doesn't happen at hawks, swans or freo.

Their nucleus seems to stay pretty much same with minor tweaks and upgrades but we've had this massive turnover and now are all just expecting these unproven youngsters will come good.

Nobody seems to have considered the very real possibility that this just might never happen.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

My major concern is injury.
I know none of us can speak from a point of absolute knowledge. We can only speculate given the information we have. But it would be fair to assume their is something seriously going wrong here. Every injury seems to be mid to long term. No need to list them all as everyone knows.
Elliott apparently left the field with a bit of tightness. Scans say no problem we are told. Yet here we are two weeks later being told he will not play again next week.
Calf, Hamstring, Quad. Normally 2-4 week injuries. They are at every other club. So what is going on at Collingwood. And why so many injuries at training.

So we need to review this. It is no good having all the money in the world if at the end of the day you can't field your side.

Note: Please don't post replies saying such and such at this club had a hammy and was out for 8 weeks. I know other clubs get some as well. I am generalizing.

I personally suspect the high altitude training is a contributor to the problem with injuries.
Working in high altitude has a similar effect to taking EPO.
It allows the players to push themselves harder than they normally would. It can have a very positive effect on cardiovascular fitness and ability to run out a game, but it seems soft tissues are folding under the pressure.
Basically the exact Same thing that happened to essendon end of 2012, their muscles starting folding late in the season because the peds were allowing them to work their bodies to breaking point.

 

[Krueger]

I'm certainly not having a go at you personally here but why have we been so willing to accept our slide into mediocrity over the past three years, thinking everything will definitely come good?

We had the youngest premiership team in 30-odd years and that's completely gone. One flag is all we will get from that generation. Nowhere near good enough.

We need to be aiming higher than one fluked flag ever 20 or 30 years, so I think a complete review from top to bottom is vital. With nobody spared or favoured.

For a variety of different reasons we have seen proven players depart en masse, and that just doesn't happen at hawks, swans or freo.

Their nucleus seems to stay pretty much same with minor tweaks and upgrades but we've had this massive turnover and now are all just expecting these unproven youngsters will come good.

Nobody seems to have considered the very real possibility that this just might never happen.

Very good post and couldnt have put it better myself. Ive never accepted our decline but am resigned to at as the damage has already been done. This latest announcement about injuries due to training is the icing on the cake. Does anybody down at the Westpac Centre know what the hell is going on? Clearly its been a farce of biblical proportions from go to whoa.

Having high draft picks doesnt guarantee you will land good players, its pretty much a lottery. If these youngsters end up half as good as Didak, Thomas, Shaw, Swan etc then we should be ok but if not then be prepared for even more pain.

Whats the point of a review when a new fitness guy was just brought in and the coach had his contract extended earlier in the year unless we review the players and blame them for not buying in, cultural issues and get rid of a few more of them.

 

[Captivating]

So, We want to know then if we are on the Right Way and keep going on it or Does a Big 360 need to happen

If we do a 360, we end up being exactly in the same place we started!

 

[jmac70]

Very good post and couldnt have put it better myself. Ive never accepted our decline but am resigned to at as the damage has already been done. This latest announcement about injuries due to training is the icing on the cake. Does anybody down at the Westpac Centre know what the hell is going on? Clearly its been a farce of biblical proportions from go to whoa.

Having high draft picks doesnt guarantee you will land good players, its pretty much a lottery. If these youngsters end up half as good as Didak, Thomas, Shaw, Swan etc then we should be ok but if not then be prepared for even more pain.

Whats the point of a review when a new fitness guy was just brought in and the coach had his contract extended earlier in the year unless we review the players and blame them for not buying in, cultural issues and get rid of a few more of them.

I suppose one of the advantages of being a club with money is that we can make changes that break contracts. In the example of Geelong, Thompson kept his job but other changes were made that led to success. Fitness staff, coaches and administration are all areas that should be reviewed. The club is accountable for performance and today's admission by Bucks indicates that there are problems that extend beyond our players inablity to hit a target.

 

[Captivating]

I am talking about a review that has the power to recommend serious changes if they are needed.

Agree 100%. It does not mean sackings, but may mean changes in accountabilities. Some people may get more or less accountability. This happens in the US often where coaches may be appointed with full control and after a few years, their level of control is reduced so they can focus on coaching while specialists can focus on other roles.

 

[pinko77]

I think bucks is the right guy I do like the way he backs the younger guys and I think the future is looking great so many
young guns coming up exciting times ahead no doubt
but I do wonder how a paul roos or ross lyon would do coaching us this year

 

[THATSGOLD]

All Clubs have Reviews at Season End.

So get some Outsiders to have a Look and Come Back with there Findings

Didn't we just have a mid season review?

 

[THATSGOLD]

Is a Geelong style review needed?

Yep....by Geelong!


We'll review as we have for the entire time Bucks has been in charge. It's part of the leading teams culture and it will be thorough and honest. Let's just get through the season before we start over analysing a young group that's had a bad run with injuries.

Maybe we just aren't good enough. Admitting that is ok without contining the we're too young and we've got injuries.

Injuries didn't lose us the suns game. The suns had no bench for a whole quarter.

 

[THATSGOLD]

The thread isn't about sacking anyone necessarily, it's about if you think a thorough review is needed or if you think we are on the right path.

I think our fans are clinging to the hope of 5-10 draft picks (players)
I think we have average coaching staff.
I think a lot guys just fell in to positions at our club. Like Rocket that didn't have credentials.
I don't think we actually targeted anyone of note we've just picked the best available that players and staff.

 

[frizzle]

Well lets remember Bucks press conference after bowing out in the first week of finals last year. Everything was going to be looked at he said. Game plan, coaching, players etc. Well we lost Butters & brought in Davoren. We don't seem to be any fitter or run games out better, but we have managed to make an injury epidemic even worse. Besides promoting Harvey & bringing in Burns, we didn't change any of the coaches. We still play a zone defence that gets picked apart by teams with foot skills. We still are easy for opposition teams to take the ball from one end to the other at kick outs with a poor setup. We moved on Heater & Daisy. While I understand why, it was not going to improve us. In my opinion there are still some big flaws in our game plan that have not been addressed. There are still many flaws in the way our players dispose of the football & there are still major flaws in players technique when kicking for goal. These flaws should have been a priority to address as coaches, yet still the same problems of 2013 that saw us gutted after the elimination final remain. Yes i understand we have a kicking instructor now, but on what basis was that appointment made? Is there improvement? Perhaps on Trav's kicking & even now he can still shank them, but i don't see any improvement from others. How many players would you guys say are playing better football than last year? There are a few i reckon, but twice as many are playing worse.

 

[jimmy35]

The thread isn't about sacking anyone necessarily, it's about if you think a thorough review is needed or if you think we are on the right path.

So you think Bucks should be sacked then?

 

[Big Bryza]

I think our fans are clinging to the hope of 5-10 draft picks (players)
I think we have average coaching staff.
I think a lot guys just fell in to positions at our club. Like Rocket that didn't have credentials.
I don't think we actually targeted anyone of note we've just picked the best available that players and staff.

1 - What do you expect fans to cling on to then? Draft picks coming through are what rejuvenate a club.

2 - Do you expect us to pick the worst available players and staff? Just remember how Watters and Neeld turned out as senior coaches. Give me Rocket Eade any day.

3- We'll be fine as long as we rectify our fitness and training program. If things continue on next year as they have in 2012-14 then serious questions will to be asked, if they aren't already.

 

[Big Bryza]

Well lets remember Bucks press conference after bowing out in the first week of finals last year. Everything was going to be looked at he said. Game plan, coaching, players etc. Well we lost Butters & brought in Davoren. We don't seem to be any fitter or run games out better, but we have managed to make an injury epidemic even worse. Besides promoting Harvey & bringing in Burns, we didn't change any of the coaches. We still play a zone defence that gets picked apart by teams with foot skills. We still are easy for opposition teams to take the ball from one end to the other at kick outs with a poor setup. We moved on Heater & Daisy. While I understand why, it was not going to improve us. In my opinion there are still some big flaws in our game plan that have not been addressed. There are still many flaws in the way our players dispose of the football & there are still major flaws in players technique when kicking for goal. These flaws should have been a priority to address as coaches, yet still the same problems of 2013 that saw us gutted after the elimination final remain. Yes i understand we have a kicking instructor now, but on what basis was that appointment made? Is there improvement? Perhaps on Trav's kicking & even now he can still shank them, but i don't see any improvement from others. How many players would you guys say are playing better football than last year? There are a few i reckon, but twice as many are playing worse.

Shaw I can understand as he's still a good player. But, Daisy. Seriously? He's absolutely washed up now. Would be offering nothing to our side this year.

 

[Scodog10]

My thoughts on this you won't like. I'm a realist. When we were flying in 2010 we had nil injuries and a bucketload of young fit players. Since then we've suffered lots. Firstly knees to Brown, Caff, Krak, Keefe, then shoulders to Johnno and Dids and heaps of other niggly things to everyone from Beams to Daisy, Maxy, Dawes, Jolley, Fasolo, Broomy, Reid, Tooves, Frost, Ox, Seedy, Freeman and Scharenburg. Injuries happen unfortunately. Sides that don't get many usually have pretty good years. The fact that we've done so well over the past 7-8 years without half our list is a testament to the club's collective will.

If you want you can sack another fitness staff...but introducing a new lot of sports scientists to the club won't change the luck involved with injuries (just as GAJ)

Why is it that whenever the word review is used people make the jump straight to clean out? Certainly not singling you out Robroy22 yours was just the most recent post that I noticed

Our medical/ sports science departments operations have been abysmal of late and an independent review ala the Argus report is well overdue...

Yeah yeah yeah the club conducts it's own reviews each year, but there is always bias involved. When constructing a document sometimes you can read it over and over and still miss something obvious that a fresh set of eyes will notice immediately! That is the point we've reached we are crying out for a fresh set of eyes to dissect what we're doing in that area.

 

[jmac70]

I think our fans are clinging to the hope of 5-10 draft picks (players)
I think we have average coaching staff.
I think a lot guys just fell in to positions at our club. Like Rocket that didn't have credentials.
I don't think we actually targeted anyone of note we've just picked the best available that players and staff.

I think you make some very valid points and it might just be that we need to bring in some fresh perspectives.