Opinion Is Ablett a traitor?

[d_henderson1810]

Well I for one am glad this thread is still going as I need something to read whilst crocheting my ablett voodoo doll out of bits of string and recycled lint from my clothes dryer.

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I thought that this thread was going to give you something to read, while you're doing the ironing, cooking and cleaning.

 

[JUBJUB]

You two want to get a room

 

[d_henderson1810]

that is a typical response i expect from a 3 year old

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I'm not the 3-year-old, RegHickeyStand is! He needs daddy's permission to go for Geelong.

 

[d_henderson1810]

You two want to get a room

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If one of the people you are addressing this to is RegHickeyStand, then it will have to be a room with a cot, and a hanging mobile to amuse him. LOL!

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

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So, you think that Guthrie might struggle then?

Your feeble derail attempt won't undo any of the events that Ablett allowed to happen last year, so you might as well get off this thread since you seem incapable of arguing your case logically.

 

[Vdubs]

Your feeble derail attempt won't undo any of the events that Ablett allowed to happen last year, so you might as well get off this thread since you seem incapable of arguing your case logically.

Do you think Ablett's lack of openness until the finale was the cause of our poor prelim performance ? If not, and the fact that he was our best player in that game, and throughout the season, means these events that he allowed to happen are not a big deal. He continued to do what he does best despite living with the knowledge of his decision, and despite the aggro from Bomber. Fair effort. Not as if his performance onfield waned, and that's all we can expect from any player while we have them. His off field behaviour has always been squeaky clean.

 

[_Me_]

Do you think Ablett's lack of openness until the finale was the cause of our poor prelim performance ? If not, and the fact that he was our best player in that game, and throughout the season, means these events that he allowed to happen are not a big deal. He continued to do what he does best despite living with the knowledge of his decision, and despite the aggro from Bomber. Fair effort. Not as if his performance onfield waned, and that's all we can expect from any player while we have them. His off field behaviour has always been squeaky clean.

I disagree. I think the group did not play like they had previously. The media attention on the big issue caused distraction. Mackie for one was affected by it, and there was some resentment from other players. Mackie's comments on field to opponents were deplorable, and no surprise he was dropped.

I don't think we realise the effect of such a selfish decision.

 

[_Me_]

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I'm not the 3-year-old, RegHickeyStand is! He needs daddy's permission to go for Geelong.

such a mature response

 

[Vdubs]

I disagree. I think the group did not play like they had previously. The media attention on the big issue caused distraction. Mackie for one was affected by it, and there was some resentment from other players. Mackie's comments on field to opponents were deplorable, and no surprise he was dropped.

I don't think we realise the effect of such a selfish decision.

With no such distractions this year, will that nullify the lack of Ablett, and can we go further?

 

[_Me_]

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You think me calling you "petty" is abuse?
yes
Man up!
you big tough boy
BTW, under your reasoning, couldn't calling me a three-year-old be considered an attempt at personal abuse as well? Hypocrite!

again comprehend. i described your argument as one from a three year old
you are so cool

 

[archilino]

Hendo can we expect you at our pre-game meets this year? I havent been to one but i definatley will go and meet the bf crew at the nixon this season.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

With no such distractions this year, will that nullify the lack of Ablett, and can we go further?

You can't be so black & white about it given the transient nature of success in football, especially given that A: all of our premiership players are another year older, and most of them have "peaked" in comparison to the lists of other clubs. Ablett is an exceptional on-field talent, and may well continue deep into his 30s like his father. That cannot be replaced easily, and the talk of Varcoe being the next Ablett is probably premature at best; laughable at worst. B: Chris Scott has said that he won't mess with the game plan too much, but I suspect that a lot of his media comments are designed to alleviate panic among the supporters. He'll continue to play with structures and personnel given that realistically we will not have the ability to win the flag for at least 3-5 years, allowing for the expected Collingwood domination and the predicted rise of younger (but relatively established) lists like Melbourne and Freo.

On Ablett's performances: just because HE didn't think he was doing anything wrong, it doesn't mean that his actions had no impact on the teams psyche, or that it wasn't a big deal. That Ablett still played to a high standard is as much ego driven with him as team-success driven. His reaction at the end of the 2010 Brownlow betrayed his utter dismay at missing out on a second medal, and his non-appearance at Geelong's Mad Monday was a huge clue of his lack of team ethos.

To be simplistic in your criticism reveals your opposition to the sentiments I've expressed about Ablett and that's your choice, but don't let it cloud your ability to think objectively. Faith seems to be the enemy of reason in any aspect of thought. It also detracts from your ability to sell your perspective.

 

[Vdubs]

You can't be so black & white about it given the transient nature of success in football, especially given that A: all of our premiership players are another year older, and most of them have "peaked" in comparison to the lists of other clubs. Ablett is an exceptional on-field talent, and may well continue deep into his 30s like his father. That cannot be replaced easily, and the talk of Varcoe being the next Ablett is probably premature at best; laughable at worst. B: Chris Scott has said that he won't mess with the game plan too much, but I suspect that a lot of his media comments are designed to alleviate panic among the supporters. He'll continue to play with structures and personnel given that realistically we will not have the ability to win the flag for at least 3-5 years, allowing for the expected Collingwood domination and the predicted rise of younger (but relatively established) lists like Melbourne and Freo.

On Ablett's performances: just because HE didn't think he was doing anything wrong, it doesn't mean that his actions had no impact on the teams psyche, or that it wasn't a big deal. That Ablett still played to a high standard is as much ego driven with him as team-success driven. His reaction at the end of the 2010 Brownlow betrayed his utter dismay at missing out on a second medal, and his non-appearance at Geelong's Mad Monday was a huge clue of his lack of team ethos.

To be simplistic in your criticism reveals your opposition to the sentiments I've expressed about Ablett and that's your choice, but don't let it cloud your ability to think objectively. Faith seems to be the enemy of reason in any aspect of thought. It also detracts from your ability to sell your perspective.

Profound and exceptional comments. But my rhetorical question was not what I believe, and I believe it was addressed to _me_. FWIW, I believe nothing at present. Last year after the finals, I was convinced we were history, ageing, slower, less hungry, game plan exposed and improved upon, and then Ablett goes.

Now, there are factors raised by some that make me think we were NQR in the finals, and we may be super hungry this year, and nobody really knows what we can dish up. In 08, the only fear was would we be able to produce on the day it counted, notwithstanding the team that beat us were pretty exceptional that year too.

In 09, the fear was could we ever get our FULL team on the park to be the only team to really worry St Kilda.

Now we have an ageing team, with our champion of 4 years gone, so good reasons for concern and yet I am more relaxed about this year than any other since 07, as we are realistically not favourites. That is what I really believe and I think it is what you believe as well.

BTW, I do disagree with you about the 2010 Brownlow. Watched it closely, heard him interviewed, and he genuinely expressed some dismay that SWAN did not win it, and I heard that on the night and the day after. Before the count, he picked Swan "easily", and admitted Judd had a good year, and I do not think he was sincerely disappointed for himself like in other years perhaps. Perhaps.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

Watching Ablett's cringe when he didn't get the votes to stay in touch with Judd in that late round game (round 20 or 21 I think) made me cringe, and not because I was disappointed FOR him. His lip service about Swan deserving it was just standard diplomatic crap and IMO it tore him up inside having to put the medal around someone elses neck.

You're right that I don't believe we're a threat for the flag, but I'll go further and say that it would be no surprise if we get bundled out of the 8 this year. I just have a suspicion that Scott's plan is going to need a bigger player turnover than what we've had already, and his willingness to play the kids over the entire preseason suggests that he's going to retire a lot of the list at the end of this year. Of course it's hard to be Nostradamus based on a few nab cup games and we might go deep into September again but based on the previous "season after" fortunes of Brisbane, Essendon, Port etc. - where their core players began reaching the twilight of their careers as the team began to decline, it would be optimistic to a degree of lunacy to suggest that the majority of our players have got that 10% extra to exceed the previous season's winner. Our list peaked in 2008 and got mugged at the 18th. And sputtered over the line in 2009 against a list almost at peak. And then couldn't even crack a win at all against the same list in 2010. Ablett MAY have been a trump card under a new coach with a new perspective, but not to be.

 

[_Me_]

Profound and exceptional comments. But my rhetorical question was not what I believe, and I believe it was addressed to _me_. FWIW, I believe nothing at present. Last year after the finals, I was convinced we were history, ageing, slower, less hungry, game plan exposed and improved upon, and then Ablett goes.

Now, there are factors raised by some that make me think we were NQR in the finals, and we may be super hungry this year, and nobody really knows what we can dish up. In 08, the only fear was would we be able to produce on the day it counted, notwithstanding the team that beat us were pretty exceptional that year too.

In 09, the fear was could we ever get our FULL team on the park to be the only team to really worry St Kilda.

Now we have an ageing team, with our champion of 4 years gone, so good reasons for concern and yet I am more relaxed about this year than any other since 07, as we are realistically not favourites. That is what I really believe and I think it is what you believe as well.

BTW, I do disagree with you about the 2010 Brownlow. Watched it closely, heard him interviewed, and he genuinely expressed some dismay that SWAN did not win it, and I heard that on the night and the day after. Before the count, he picked Swan "easily", and admitted Judd had a good year, and I do not think he was sincerely disappointed for himself like in other years perhaps. Perhaps.

Ablett did make comments at the brownlow that bomber cost him his second brownlow. I think he was cut.

And the year before, his drop kick brother turned up to mad monday celebrations even though he walked out on the club.

Further i think my attorney has eloquently put you and dhead on the back foot.

 

[Vdubs]

Watching Ablett's cringe when he didn't get the votes to stay in touch with Judd in that late round game (round 20 or 21 I think) made me cringe, and not because I was disappointed FOR him. His lip service about Swan deserving it was just standard diplomatic crap and IMO it tore him up inside having to put the medal around someone elses neck.

You're right that I don't believe we're a threat for the flag, but I'll go further and say that it would be no surprise if we get bundled out of the 8 this year. I just have a suspicion that Scott's plan is going to need a bigger player turnover than what we've had already, and his willingness to play the kids over the entire preseason suggests that he's going to retire a lot of the list at the end of this year. Of course it's hard to be Nostradamus based on a few nab cup games and we might go deep into September again but based on the previous "season after" fortunes of Brisbane, Essendon, Port etc. - where their core players began reaching the twilight of their careers as the team began to decline, it would be optimistic to a degree of lunacy to suggest that the majority of our players have got that 10% extra to exceed the previous season's winner. Our list peaked in 2008 and got mugged at the 18th. And sputtered over the line in 2009 against a list almost at peak. And then couldn't even crack a win at all against the same list in 2010. Ablett MAY have been a trump card under a new coach with a new perspective, but not to be.

Totally agree with part 2.
I didn't see it like that, but you are probably right about the Brownlow

 

[Vdubs]

Ablett did make comments at the brownlow that bomber cost him his second brownlow. I think he was cut.

And the year before, his drop kick brother turned up to mad monday celebrations even though he walked out on the club.

Further i think my attorney has eloquently put you and dhead on the back foot.

Yes, Gary wasn't impressed with the treatment Nathan got when he turned up post losing 08 GF. He had , in his defence, attempted a pseudo-comeback, do you recall, playing some 2's footy, training anyway, but then did an ankle at basketball. The point being, he had attempted to make some sort of comeback that year and was still on our list.

And I'm always on the backfoot. Comes naturally when you try and support the less talented and popular in the team, if as I do, you believe they deserve support.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I disagree. I think the group did not play like they had previously. The media attention on the big issue caused distraction. Mackie for one was affected by it, and there was some resentment from other players. Mackie's comments on field to opponents were deplorable, and no surprise he was dropped.

I don't think we realise the effect of such a selfish decision.

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So, you're blaming Ablett for Mackie's poor form. If Mackie isn't up to it, then that's Mackie's fault.

For mine, Andrew Mackie, has been serviceable most of the time. He has a couple of very good seasons, but is too inconsistent and oftens kicks to the opposition.

Next you will blame Ablett for the Kennedy shooting as well!

 

[David the Cat]

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So, you're blaming Ablett for Mackie's poor form. If Mackie isn't up to it, then that's Mackie's fault.

For mine, Andrew Mackie, has been serviceable most of the time. He has a couple of very good seasons, but is too inconsistent and oftens kicks to the opposition.

Next you will blame Ablett for the Kennedy shooting as well!

mmmmm...actually there was a bald guy just behind the grassy knoll.

You might be onto something henderson........

 

[_Me_]

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So, you're blaming Ablett for Mackie's poor form. If Mackie isn't up to it, then that's Mackie's fault.

For mine, Andrew Mackie, has been serviceable most of the time. He has a couple of very good seasons, but is too inconsistent and oftens kicks to the opposition.

Next you will blame Ablett for the Kennedy shooting as well!

You are lacking simple comprehension. I was making the comment that Ablett's behaviour would have had an effect on the group. Team's work because of constituent parts and their inputs.

I am not blaming Ablett for Mackie's attitude, but it would have influenced it. They were close.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Yes, Gary wasn't impressed with the treatment Nathan got when he turned up post losing 08 GF. He had , in his defence, attempted a pseudo-comeback, do you recall, playing some 2's footy, training anyway, but then did an ankle at basketball. The point being, he had attempted to make some sort of comeback that year and was still on our list.

And I'm always on the backfoot. Comes naturally when you try and support the less talented and popular in the team, if as I do, you believe they deserve support.

Nathan walked out a month after the 07 flag.
Gary "walked out" a month after the 09 flag, by signing with the GC.

The issue being Geelong put a few years into Nathan and when we really needed him in the 08 GF he was on walkabout. Thats what shits the players to death I imagine. People skimming off the top and not putting in at the grass roots to support what others did for them in the first place.

 

[vinum coupe]

Yes, Gary wasn't impressed with the treatment Nathan got when he turned up post losing 08 GF. He had , in his defence, attempted a pseudo-comeback, do you recall, playing some 2's footy, training anyway, but then did an ankle at basketball. The point being, he had attempted to make some sort of comeback that year and was still on our list.

And I'm always on the backfoot. Comes naturally when you try and support the less talented and popular in the team, if as I do, you believe they deserve support.

VD, that is a stretch.
To be honest, Nathan has extracted 700k or so more than he should have from footy. He's played it all pretty well really.

 

[Vdubs]

VD, that is a stretch.
To be honest, Nathan has extracted 700k or so more than he should have from footy. He's played it all pretty well really.

Look, Nathan cost us the 2008 premiership, no doubt at all. Nothing else about him is worth discussing. We were so well set up after the 07 flag. All was perfect. Nathan had started to show a bit, Hawkins on the way, and Nathan goes walkabout. That and Stokes' GF "effort". So what was I stretching?

 

[d_henderson1810]

I disagree. I think the group did not play like they had previously. The media attention on the big issue caused distraction. Mackie for one was affected by it, and there was some resentment from other players. Mackie's comments on field to opponents were deplorable, and no surprise he was dropped.

I don't think we realise the effect of such a selfish decision.

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I saw Cameron Ling on "The Footy Show" a couple of weeks ago, and when he was asked about Ablett, he seemed like he didn't have any problems with it, and accepted his decision. Because, you see, unlike a few posters here, Ling and the other Geelong players are adults, and can handle the situation with maturity. I mean, one of the marks of our team in recent times is how the club keeps its head in times of scandal. We don't self-destruct and let it affect our performance, like St. Kilda does.

As for the media being a distraction, what else is new? Just ignore those wanna-bes and write their comments off as the drivel it is.

Mackie was probably dropped, because he has poor disposal. I have always thought he has been one of our poorset players, and had only two good years (2007-2008). He struggled last year, and has been shocking this year (when Ablett is not an issue to us). Did you see his poor disposal, mis-kicks, and kicking to the opposition in our game against Fremantle in Round 3? Mackie is not great at decision-making, struggles under pressure, and plays on confidence. He is also somewhat of a downhill skier, and maybe we could use him as trade-bait at the end of the year. You can't blame Ablett for Mackie's poor performances this year, or his shockers in 2006.

 

[Vdubs]

VD, that is a stretch.
To be honest, Nathan has extracted 700k or so more than he should have from footy. He's played it all pretty well really.

Let us not forget Nathan was there in 06 when we were crap, and there in 07 when he was part of our rise to the top. The highlights package of 07 features a lot of Nathan in the first 1/2 of the season in particular.

Anyway, it will be very interesting if he is able to force his way back into the GC team to join Gary against us.