Is Arafat dead - the real story

GuruJane

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Thread starter #1
I've started a new - but really a companion piece to JimBoy's earlier thread - because ...

Earlier today I read this AP story in full on the ABC news website. But when I went back to it tonight to post it on Jimboy's thread, I discovered it had been truncated.

As usual the mainstream media is trying to cover up unpalatable truths.

So here is the AP story unabridged:


The Associated Press story in full:

CLAMART, France — Yasser Arafat's wife on Monday accused his top lieutenants of seeking to grab control from her ailing husband, nearly torpedoing a visit by three top Palestinian officials in the first sign of an open power struggle while Arafat clings to life.

In a screaming telephone call from Arafat's hospital bedside, Suha Arafat told Al-Jazeera television that Arafat's aides were conspiring to usurp her husband's four-decade-long role as Palestinian leader.

"Let it be known to the honest Palestinian people that a bunch of those who want to inherit are coming to Paris," she shouted in Arabic in her first public comments since Arafat left his West Bank compound for France.

"I tell you they are trying to bury Abu Ammar alive," she continued, using Arafat's nom de guerre. "He is all right and he is going home."

In response, Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath and Mahmoud Abbas, the former prime minister and deputy chairman of Arafat's Palestine Liberation Organization, briefly canceled a planned trip to Paris on Monday to consult with Arafat's doctors and French officials. Shaath later said the trip was back on.

A senior aide to Arafat, Tayeb Abdel Rahim, originally said the three were angry with Arafat's wife and didn't want to travel to Paris.

"What came from Suha doesn't represent our people," he said. "If the president were to hear that, he would reject it completely."

He said Mrs. Arafat "wanted to destroy the Palestinian leadership's decision and to be the lone decision-maker."

Mrs. Arafat said she was calling from Arafat's bedside at the French military hospital, where the 75-year-old leader has been in intensive care since Wednesday.

A producer from Al-Jazeera told The Associated Press the station was confident it was Suha Arafat on the phone. She first called the network's Ramallah office, then its headquarters in Qatar.

Her insistence that Arafat was doing fine came a day after French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier called his condition "very complex, very serious and stable right now."

Palestinians have been making contingency plans in the event of Arafat's death.

Qureia and Abbas have been working together to run Palestinian affairs in Arafat's absence and to prevent chaos and violence if the Palestinian leader dies. Qureia has taken on some of Arafat's executive and security powers, while Abbas has been chairing meetings of the PLO's executive body.

Jamil Tarifi, the Palestinian minister of civil affairs, told Al-Jazeera the group was initially hesitant about going, but that the executive committee decided the trip would help "reassure" worried Palestinians.

Some Palestinians have complained Suha Arafat has gained too much power. She controls the flow of information about Arafat's condition and has taken charge of access to her husband.

"She is not part of the Palestinian leadership," Arafat security adviser Jibril Rajoub told Israel's Channel Two TV on Sunday.

Mrs. Arafat, 41, lives in Paris and has not been to the West Bank or had not seen her husband since the latest round of Palestinian violence began in 2000.

She also is widely believed to have control of vast funds collected by the PLO.

Palestinian leaders are working to avoid chaos or violence in the event of the death of Arafat, who has been ailing for nearly a month.

Doctors have described his condition in recent days as critical but stable and have yet to release a diagnosis.

Early Sunday, one of Arafat's senior aides, Nabil Abu Rdeneh, categorically denied Arafat was in a coma. But Shaath later told CNN that Arafat was in a "reversible" coma. He denied reports of brain or liver damage.

Asked about reports of brain death, Barnier replied: "I wouldn't say that."

Arafat's death would open the potentially explosive issue of a burial site.

Palestinian officials have said Arafat wants to be buried in Jerusalem, but Israel has rejected that demand. In Jerusalem, Israeli officials said Sunday preparations were complete for Arafat to be buried in the Gaza Strip.

Also Sunday, the Palestinian National Security Council, temporarily headed by Qureia, approved his plan for internal security, according to Palestinian officials. No details were available.

Qureia has already assumed some emergency financial and administrative powers that Arafat normally would wield. Abbas, considered a more likely successor, has chaired a series of meetings of the PLO executive committee in Arafat's absence in an effort to project unity.

Neither politician has much grassroots support among Palestinians or important militant groups.

The Palestinian leadership are trying to come between Suha and the pot of gold ... good luck to them ...
 

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Lestat

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#2
Jane....

You have so much time to discuss the corruption of Arafat...and his equally corrupt wife.

Yet still no mention of the links I provided you in regards to the IDF forcing Palestinians and the check points to drink there urine.

Whats going on...after all, you were so disgusted and outraged in regards to Beslan...and in your own words...you did say that forcing kids to drink urine is a barbaric act (and rightly so).

So why the silence. I will give you another opportunity. Would you like to condemn the IDF for the barbaric act of forcing palestinian kids to drink urine.

come on Jane......your silence is deafening!
 

GuruJane

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And Jimboy - you live in France, don't you?

French law, is it like Australia where it is the next of kin is the only one who can legally give the ok for the life support to be switched off? In this case, Suha, the beloved wife and mother of the unmartyred daughter?
 

Lestat

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#4
GuruJane said:
And Jimboy - you live in France, don't you?

French law, is it like Australia where it is the next of kin is the only one who can legally give the ok for the life support to be switched off? In this case, Suha, the beloved wife and mother of the unmartyred daughter?
Ah...Jane...your silence on the issue is deafening.

Thank you.....you've exposed your hypocricy and double standards in ways I could never have dreamed of :D

You really are a typical right wing zionist neo-con facist nutter!
 

CharlieG

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#6
Lestat said:
Jane....

You have so much time to discuss the corruption of Arafat...and his equally corrupt wife.

Yet still no mention of the links I provided you in regards to the IDF forcing Palestinians and the check points to drink there urine.

Whats going on...after all, you were so disgusted and outraged in regards to Beslan...and in your own words...you did say that forcing kids to drink urine is a barbaric act (and rightly so).

So why the silence. I will give you another opportunity. Would you like to condemn the IDF for the barbaric act of forcing palestinian kids to drink urine.

come on Jane......your silence is deafening!
Ask her about El Mozote.

Apparently, the murders of children there, by right-wing American-supported forces, weren't as bad as the murders of children in Beslan.

Jane - I would appreciate greatly if you would answer my question, by the way. Do you deny that you have embraced imperialism?
 
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GuruJane said:
And Jimboy - you live in France, don't you?

French law, is it like Australia where it is the next of kin is the only one who can legally give the ok for the life support to be switched off? In this case, Suha, the beloved wife and mother of the unmartyred daughter?
While not knowing the definitive legal answer, I'd say that in fact that responsibility probably rests with the doctor. Here in France (only about 2kms from Arafat's hostipal) doctors tend have alot more say in how a patient should be treated with patients having less say in how they may be treated.

I still reckon Arafat is dead, too many curly issues if he had been pronounced dead too quickly.

As for Suha, I can tell you from experience that French wills are a minefield.
 

GuruJane

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Thread starter #8
Jim Boy said:
While not knowing the definitive legal answer, I'd say that in fact that responsibility probably rests with the doctor. Here in France (only about 2kms from Arafat's hostipal) doctors tend have alot more say in how a patient should be treated with patients having less say in how they may be treated.

I still reckon Arafat is dead, too many curly issues if he had been pronounced dead too quickly.

As for Suha, I can tell you from experience that French wills are a minefield.
Like I said ... a stinking can of worms being revealed.

Helps explain why the Palestinian street response has been so muted.

Am still interested in the French legalities ... a big call for a doctor to turn off life support without the permission of the next of kin surely? There'd have to be some legal protections.

I don't think Yass can be dead yet ... otherwise the Palestinians would have announced it and got him out of there and buried, if only to stymie Suha.

Reckon Suha is driving a hard bargain and its sticking in their throats - and so it should.

And also ... the way ABC news here truncated that AP story in the space of a day!!! I read it first at 9 am but didn't have time to post it. Twelve hours later, they'd cut most of it!
 

Lestat

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#9
GuruJane said:
Like I said ... a stinking can of worms being revealed.

Helps explain why the Palestinian street response has been so muted.

Am still interested in the French legalities ... a big call for a doctor to turn off life support without the permission of the next of kin surely? There'd have to be some legal protections.

I don't think Yass can be dead yet ... otherwise the Palestinians would have announced it and got him out of there and buried, if only to stymie Suha.

Reckon Suha is driving a hard bargain and its sticking in their throats - and so it should.

And also ... the way ABC news here truncated that AP story in the space of a day!!! I read it first at 9 am but didn't have time to post it. Twelve hours later, they'd cut most of it!
Its strange...isn't it.

GuruJane chooses to highlight the corruption of Arafat and his wife on one hand....whereas on the other hand she is totally supportive of the corruption of the US in Iraq...and the million dollar contracts handed to Haliburton, Bechtel and the Carlisle group.

And what of the Bush's links to the Bin Ladens and the millions of dollars that have been hoarded.......

Not a word from Jane....absolute silence.

For what its worth....Arafat is a corrupt pig...I would of thought that was common knowledge...most arabs governments are.

So why exactly are you gloating Jane??
 
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GuruJane said:
Am still interested in the French legalities ... a big call for a doctor to turn off life support without the permission of the next of kin surely? There'd have to be some legal protections.
If it got down to a doctor vs next-of-kin intractable dispute, then the next-of-kin could probably take their grievance to a tribunal to bring in to question the capability of the doctor. Meanwhile the life-support would be turned off, possibly as part of a committee decision.

But the general ethos here is that the French provide a comprehensive, egalitarian health care system (and it really is very good, hardly anyone goes private), but the patient must adhere to the demands of the doctor in order to keep things as efficient as possible.
 

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Lestat

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#12
Tim56 said:
Because what she says is based on fact, not supposition and discredited conspiracy theories.
So what are you saying. That Haliburton, and Bechtel been granted million of dollars in Iraqi contracts isn't fact??

is that what your saying?
 

CharlieG

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#13
Tim56 said:
Because what she says is based on fact, not supposition and discredited conspiracy theories.
Sorry - I know that I'm dragging this thread off track, but I'm a bit ********ed off that she'll call me a supporter of Bin Laden on the one hand, then refuse to answer simple questions on the other. So I'm going to keep dragging her hypocrisy and callousness into the spotlight for a while.

Is it based on 'fact', Tim, that the murders of hundreds of men, women, and children at El Mozote in El Salvador is not as bad as the murder of hundreds at Beslan? At El Mozote, Tim, the children were first separated from the men (their fathers, grandfathers, elder brothers and uncles), who were machine-gunned, then locked in a school room while the women - their mothers, grandmothers, elder sisters and aunts - were also machine gunned. Then they themselves were machine-gunned through the windows of the school. But it wasn't as bad as Beslan, according to Jane. Shooting kids in a locked building isn't as bad as shooting them in the back as they flee, according to this woman who bases her posts on 'fact'.
 

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#15
Jim Boy said:
While not knowing the definitive legal answer, I'd say that in fact that responsibility probably rests with the doctor. Here in France (only about 2kms from Arafat's hostipal) doctors tend have alot more say in how a patient should be treated with patients having less say in how they may be treated.

I still reckon Arafat is dead, too many curly issues if he had been pronounced dead too quickly.
As for Suha, I can tell you from experience that French wills are a minefield.

Spot on..the Israelis need to tighten security in and around the hot spots..they also need to negotiate a peaceful burial area...this is one death whether you think he has some merit of importance where every small detail must be crossed and dotted otherwise it will explode into an uncontrolled rabble..

And this from 2002..(couldnt find any newer)

http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/asp/service.asp?SERVID=100&LNG=en&PAGID=442

Having a quick skim I couldnt find any mention of doctors rights..but I was blown away by the set up...come on Johnny parlevous le francais
 

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Thread starter #16
goaldrush said:
It proves that Arafat's wife is a bitch.
A very rich bitch .... living off obscene amounts of money donated by the European Union as aid to the Palestinians that they have hardly seen a cent of .

Not one school built by the PLA. Not one hospital. Not one housing project ...
 

Lestat

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#17
GuruJane said:
Not one school built by the PLA. Not one hospital. Not one housing project ...
All the above built by Hamas...might explain why they are so popular amongst Palestinians....especially in Gaza.
 
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#18
I don't believe that Hamas has built anything - they run some "schools" and give food handouts but Hamas actions in terms of suicide bombing and attacks on Israeli civilians have generally led to a deterioration in the Palestinian economy which is further not helped by the theft and corruption of the PA.
 

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#19
Bananabender said:
I don't believe that Hamas has built anything - they run some "schools" and give food handouts but Hamas actions in terms of suicide bombing and attacks on Israeli civilians have generally led to a deterioration in the Palestinian economy which is further not helped by the theft and corruption of the PA.
You 'don't believe', huh? Wikipedia, Military.com and other sites only a Google search away say it does. Can you tell me why you believe that they don't build schools and hospitals? I'm not necessarily assuming you're wrong - but I'd like to know why I should believe your rather general statement.

As an aside - what have the Israelis built, other than settlements for their own citizens? They've had these areas under their power for nearly 40 years now. What have they done in the way of infrastructure?
 
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#20
I can answer that because I've been in the West Bank as a guest of Palestinian friends. Under the Oslo Accords the Palestine Authority took control of a number of Palestinian cities and towns in 1995. They took control of most of Hebron in early 1997. When I was in West Bank cities Jenin, Nablus and Jericho my guides showed me around and according to them, the bulk of the infrastructure of the cities was built up after 1967. This included universities, schools and hospitals and the standard of living improved considerably. You can check out how many universities there are on the West Bank, many of which flourished in the 70s and '80's. If you happened to hear PA Cabinet Minister Sa'eb Erekat discussing the situation in the Palestinian territories in the wake of Arafat's illness he placed great store on the fact that the Palestinian literacy rate was 97% which happens to be better than most Arab states.

My Palestinian guides however, were critical of a decline in infrastructure improvement under the PA since 1995 - mainly due to what we now know as the systemic corruption within the PA and its tendency to use funds allocated for the benefit of the Palestinian population for the purchase of arms.

Whilst my guides acknowledged that Hamas played a role in looking after parts of the Palestinian population I saw no evidence that Hamas was actually involved in building schools and hospitals although there's no doubt that it runs schools - given what Hamas is, most rational people would take great issue with what Hamas teaches in those schools.
 

CharlieG

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#21
From what I've read, Hamas is primarily based and works in the Gaza Strip.

Can you confirm or deny that they build hospitals and schools in the Gaza Strip? Can you also tell me what work Israel has done in this area, in nearly 40 years of occupation?
 
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#22
You heard wrong about Hamas. They don't care where they carry out their murder of civilains. Gaza, West Bank. It doesn't matter to them.

I can't give a definitive answer to your question of what Israel has done in terms of infrastructure improvements in Gaza but its was a darn sight more than was done by the Egyptians who occupied Gaza from 1948 to 1967 and ditto for what was done by the PA which took control in 1995 - Gaza and Jericho were the first Palestinian cities handed back under the Oslo accords. When I was in Jericho I found it to be the most impressive of the cities under Palestinian control. It economy was thriving and it received large numbers of Israeli visitors who spent a lot of money there - particularly at the Casino (that was in 1999).

From what I've seen of Gaza (TV, documentaries) and what I've heard of it, the place is no picture postcard but then again it never was. On the other hand, living standards under the Israeli occupation were much better than the living standards of a host of Arab cities elsewhere in the world that I can mention, some of which I have visited.

Finally, the living standards of all Palestinians under the occupation (and I don't agree with it and support its end by negotiations) are immeasurably better than the living standards of the black minority in Sudan who are being slaughtered in their thousands by militias with similar aims to Hamas and whose regime recently neglected to disarm and arrest these Arab militias as required by the United Nations.
 

CharlieG

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#23
So...
- You can't back up your denial of Hamas' charitable activities. The only defence available to you is to fall back upon their terrorist activities.
- You don't know what - if anything - Israel has done in terms of social infrastructure in occupied Palestine. Just as you can't provide evidence about Hamas, neither can you provide evidence about Israel.
- You are trying to send the discussion on a tangent by referring to events in Sudan which have nothing at all to do with events in Palestine.

In conclusion, you're just another MillerCHF.
 
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#25
It's fascinating how the pro Palestinian terrorists on this site have such a similar mindset. "Charlie G" or whatever incarnation you're in at the moment - you hear what you want to hear, read what you want to read and disregard the rest.

I entered this discussion by stating that I doubted whether Hamas built "hospitals and schools in the Gaza Strip". That was your contention and that of Lestat. I stated that Hamas 'run some "schools" and give food handouts' - i.e carry out some charitable work and you now ask me to back up my "denial of Hamas' charitable activities."

In a previous post I stated what I personally knew of infrastructure work carried out by Israelis in terms of hospitals, universities and schools built by them. No official in the PA will deny these things because they're there. I stated that things deteriorated after the PA assumed control under Oslo. In fact, I have been informed that despite international aid in the billions not one single hospital or school was built by either the PA or Hamas in Gaza since late 1994 when Israel ceded control to Arafat.

As for "Hamas' charitable work", I have no doubt that the Nazis continued their own charitable work after they assumed power in Germany in 1933 (this included harbouring the Palestinian leader Haj Amin el Husseini - a distant relative of Arafat and one of the inspirations behind Hamas). None of the charitable work that the Nazis might have taken on absolved them from the charge that they were a bunch of murdering barbarians and your Hamas "charitable work" doesn't absolve it of the same charge. But go ahead - you or Lestat or whomever might want to back up the original contention that Hamas actually built hospitals or schools in Gaza. Tell us where they are and when they were built. It might help some poor souls who are in need of them.

Finally, and I don't need to dwell on this - it's the attitude you carry into this discussion that is typical of the mindset that brought about the tragedy for the Palestinian people. It's what Yasser Arafay was/is all about. It's what Hamas is all about - lies, bluster, threats of violence, bluster and more bluster and little consideration to bringing about a peaceful resolution of the conflict because there's always one "i" to dot and one "t" to cross. And behind it all, there's a real problem that is best described by a courageous Muslim woman. Perhaps you should be listening to Irshad Manji?

http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/news/latimes-04-09-01.html

Consider what she says before you next try being abusive to others.
 
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