Is Brett Ratten a genius? (Now with Poll)

Is Brett Ratten a genius?

  • Yes. Up there with Einstein and Da Vinci.

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • Not a genius but a very good Assistant Coach

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • ordinary assistant with a happy knack for arriving at a club during good times

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • When Jack Watts finally hangs up his boots in 2030 he will walk in to a senior coaching position

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7

RUNVS

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#26
Brett Ratten was a disaster at Carlton as senior coach. We are still paying today for his tenure.

We did not have a list manager back in his day. He was the boss of the football department and had sway over the recruiting and trading as well. In fact he had his fingers in almost every part of the club, even non football related things. Part of the reason he was given the arse.

Read the lists for recruiting and trading below. Pathetic. Set the club back 10 years in just five years of coaching. He thought he had a list that was good enough and did not treat the draft with respect or use trading strategically.

Fred Flinstone could have coached the Carlton list to 5th in 2011. Sadly the work in 2009 and 2010 did not attempt to turn over the list or build it up.

Recruiting.


2011 National Draft
Pick 22:
Josh Bootsma, Sth Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 44: Sam Rowe, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 62: Dylan Buckley, Northern Knights U18


2010 National Draft
Pick 18: Matthew Watson, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 34: Patrick McCarthy, Glenelg, SANFL
Pick 42: Luke Mitchell, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 67: Andrew McInnes, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 70: Nick Duigan, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 85: Jeffery Garlett, Promoted Rookie
Pick 99: David Ellard, Promoted Rookie
Pick 108: Simon White, Promoted Rookie


2009 National Draft
Pick 12: Kane Lucas, East Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 43: Marcus Davies, North Hobart
Pick 59: Rohan Kerr*, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 72: Sam Jacobs, Promoted Rookie
Pick 85: Aaron Joseph, Promoted Rookie


2008 National Draft
Pick 6: Chris Yarran, Swan Districts, WAFL
Pick 40: Mitch Robinson, Tassie Devils U18
Pick 65: Rhys O'Keeffe, North Adelaide, SANFL
Pick 80: Caleb Tiller*, Murray Bushrangers U18
Pick 85: Pass


TRADING


End of Year 2011 Trades
Nil


End of Year 2010 Trades
Shaun Grigg to Richmond in return for Andrew Collins.
Sam Jacobs to Adelaide in return for Picks 34 Patrick McCarthy and 67 Andrew McInnes.
Picks 37 (George Horlin-Smith) and 53 (Jordan Schroder) to Geelong for Jeremy Laidler and Pick 42 Luke Mitchell.


2009 Trades
Draft choice 11 (Jordan Gysberts) to Melbourne for Brock McLean.
Brendan Fevola and Pick 27 (Callum Bartlett) traded to Brisbane for Lachlan Henderson and Pick 12 Kane Lucas.


2008 Trades
Draft choices 24 (Nick Suban), 56 (Ben Bucovaz) and 72 (Will Young) to Fremantle for Robert Warnock and draft choice 69.
Senior coaches don't made drafting/trading decisions.
 

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blitzer

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#28
Brett Ratten was a disaster at Carlton as senior coach. We are still paying today for his tenure.

We did not have a list manager back in his day. He was the boss of the football department and had sway over the recruiting and trading as well. In fact he had his fingers in almost every part of the club, even non football related things. Part of the reason he was given the arse.

Read the lists for recruiting and trading below. Pathetic. Set the club back 10 years in just five years of coaching. He thought he had a list that was good enough and did not treat the draft with respect or use trading strategically.

Fred Flinstone could have coached the Carlton list to 5th in 2011. Sadly the work in 2009 and 2010 did not attempt to turn over the list or build it up.

Recruiting.


2011 National Draft
Pick 22:
Josh Bootsma, Sth Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 44: Sam Rowe, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 62: Dylan Buckley, Northern Knights U18


2010 National Draft
Pick 18: Matthew Watson, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 34: Patrick McCarthy, Glenelg, SANFL
Pick 42: Luke Mitchell, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 67: Andrew McInnes, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 70: Nick Duigan, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 85: Jeffery Garlett, Promoted Rookie
Pick 99: David Ellard, Promoted Rookie
Pick 108: Simon White, Promoted Rookie


2009 National Draft
Pick 12: Kane Lucas, East Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 43: Marcus Davies, North Hobart
Pick 59: Rohan Kerr*, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 72: Sam Jacobs, Promoted Rookie
Pick 85: Aaron Joseph, Promoted Rookie


2008 National Draft
Pick 6: Chris Yarran, Swan Districts, WAFL
Pick 40: Mitch Robinson, Tassie Devils U18
Pick 65: Rhys O'Keeffe, North Adelaide, SANFL
Pick 80: Caleb Tiller*, Murray Bushrangers U18
Pick 85: Pass


TRADING


End of Year 2011 Trades
Nil


End of Year 2010 Trades
Shaun Grigg to Richmond in return for Andrew Collins.
Sam Jacobs to Adelaide in return for Picks 34 Patrick McCarthy and 67 Andrew McInnes.
Picks 37 (George Horlin-Smith) and 53 (Jordan Schroder) to Geelong for Jeremy Laidler and Pick 42 Luke Mitchell.


2009 Trades
Draft choice 11 (Jordan Gysberts) to Melbourne for Brock McLean.
Brendan Fevola and Pick 27 (Callum Bartlett) traded to Brisbane for Lachlan Henderson and Pick 12 Kane Lucas.


2008 Trades
Draft choices 24 (Nick Suban), 56 (Ben Bucovaz) and 72 (Will Young) to Fremantle for Robert Warnock and draft choice 69.
That's crazy. Carlton went 4 years with only 1 top 10 pick.
 

Juddernaut08

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#31
Brett Ratten was a disaster at Carlton as senior coach. We are still paying today for his tenure.

We did not have a list manager back in his day. He was the boss of the football department and had sway over the recruiting and trading as well. In fact he had his fingers in almost every part of the club, even non football related things. Part of the reason he was given the arse.

Read the lists for recruiting and trading below. Pathetic. Set the club back 10 years in just five years of coaching. He thought he had a list that was good enough and did not treat the draft with respect or use trading strategically.

Fred Flinstone could have coached the Carlton list to 5th in 2011. Sadly the work in 2009 and 2010 did not attempt to turn over the list or build it up.

Recruiting.


2011 National Draft
Pick 22:
Josh Bootsma, Sth Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 44: Sam Rowe, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 62: Dylan Buckley, Northern Knights U18


2010 National Draft
Pick 18: Matthew Watson, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 34: Patrick McCarthy, Glenelg, SANFL
Pick 42: Luke Mitchell, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 67: Andrew McInnes, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 70: Nick Duigan, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 85: Jeffery Garlett, Promoted Rookie
Pick 99: David Ellard, Promoted Rookie
Pick 108: Simon White, Promoted Rookie


2009 National Draft
Pick 12: Kane Lucas, East Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 43: Marcus Davies, North Hobart
Pick 59: Rohan Kerr*, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 72: Sam Jacobs, Promoted Rookie
Pick 85: Aaron Joseph, Promoted Rookie


2008 National Draft
Pick 6: Chris Yarran, Swan Districts, WAFL
Pick 40: Mitch Robinson, Tassie Devils U18
Pick 65: Rhys O'Keeffe, North Adelaide, SANFL
Pick 80: Caleb Tiller*, Murray Bushrangers U18
Pick 85: Pass


TRADING


End of Year 2011 Trades
Nil


End of Year 2010 Trades
Shaun Grigg to Richmond in return for Andrew Collins.
Sam Jacobs to Adelaide in return for Picks 34 Patrick McCarthy and 67 Andrew McInnes.
Picks 37 (George Horlin-Smith) and 53 (Jordan Schroder) to Geelong for Jeremy Laidler and Pick 42 Luke Mitchell.


2009 Trades
Draft choice 11 (Jordan Gysberts) to Melbourne for Brock McLean.
Brendan Fevola and Pick 27 (Callum Bartlett) traded to Brisbane for Lachlan Henderson and Pick 12 Kane Lucas.


2008 Trades
Draft choices 24 (Nick Suban), 56 (Ben Bucovaz) and 72 (Will Young) to Fremantle for Robert Warnock and draft choice 69.
WTF. This is simply untrue.
 

hk89

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#32
Brett Ratten was a disaster at Carlton as senior coach. We are still paying today for his tenure.

We did not have a list manager back in his day. He was the boss of the football department and had sway over the recruiting and trading as well. In fact he had his fingers in almost every part of the club, even non football related things. Part of the reason he was given the arse.

Read the lists for recruiting and trading below. Pathetic. Set the club back 10 years in just five years of coaching. He thought he had a list that was good enough and did not treat the draft with respect or use trading strategically.

Fred Flinstone could have coached the Carlton list to 5th in 2011. Sadly the work in 2009 and 2010 did not attempt to turn over the list or build it up.

Recruiting.


2011 National Draft
Pick 22:
Josh Bootsma, Sth Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 44: Sam Rowe, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 62: Dylan Buckley, Northern Knights U18


2010 National Draft
Pick 18: Matthew Watson, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 34: Patrick McCarthy, Glenelg, SANFL
Pick 42: Luke Mitchell, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 67: Andrew McInnes, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 70: Nick Duigan, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 85: Jeffery Garlett, Promoted Rookie
Pick 99: David Ellard, Promoted Rookie
Pick 108: Simon White, Promoted Rookie


2009 National Draft
Pick 12: Kane Lucas, East Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 43: Marcus Davies, North Hobart
Pick 59: Rohan Kerr*, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 72: Sam Jacobs, Promoted Rookie
Pick 85: Aaron Joseph, Promoted Rookie


2008 National Draft
Pick 6: Chris Yarran, Swan Districts, WAFL
Pick 40: Mitch Robinson, Tassie Devils U18
Pick 65: Rhys O'Keeffe, North Adelaide, SANFL
Pick 80: Caleb Tiller*, Murray Bushrangers U18
Pick 85: Pass


TRADING


End of Year 2011 Trades
Nil


End of Year 2010 Trades
Shaun Grigg to Richmond in return for Andrew Collins.
Sam Jacobs to Adelaide in return for Picks 34 Patrick McCarthy and 67 Andrew McInnes.
Picks 37 (George Horlin-Smith) and 53 (Jordan Schroder) to Geelong for Jeremy Laidler and Pick 42 Luke Mitchell.


2009 Trades
Draft choice 11 (Jordan Gysberts) to Melbourne for Brock McLean.
Brendan Fevola and Pick 27 (Callum Bartlett) traded to Brisbane for Lachlan Henderson and Pick 12 Kane Lucas.


2008 Trades
Draft choices 24 (Nick Suban), 56 (Ben Bucovaz) and 72 (Will Young) to Fremantle for Robert Warnock and draft choice 69.
The fact that you lay all that at Ratten's feet simply shows that compared to you , the man IS a genius.

The fact that he managed to get the team that resulted from that trading and recruitment mismanagement into finals - more than once - shows that the man IS a genius compared to most in the coaching business.
 
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Moderator #33
Brett Ratten was a disaster at Carlton as senior coach. We are still paying today for his tenure.

We did not have a list manager back in his day. He was the boss of the football department and had sway over the recruiting and trading as well.
No he wasnt.

Stephen Icke was. Icke was GM of Football Operations (till McKay took over). Icke had oversight of the entire football department (including recruiters) until list management was formally given its own List management division under SOS in 2015 following Loguidice coming on board as President.

Icke was basically our list manager for the 5 years from 2007 till 2011. He orchestrated the Judd trade, and then oversaw our shocking list management and recruiting from 2007-2011. McKay then took over from 2012 (the year Ratten was sacked), and it was largely left up to our recruiters (Hughes) with input from the coach (now Malthouse) and McKay, before we finally woke up, realised how ad-hoc and shit that was, bit the bullet and beefed up list management into it's own department in 2015 (following Malthouses sacking).

In 2015 our salary cap was clogged up, our best players had left or were walking out, and we had blown the prior 8 drafts with zero talent coming though. The whole list management had been a total shambles with next to zero actual management. We didnt even have a proper list management section, and had minimal corporate knowledge in the club of how to, you know, manage a list.

That was the fault of club management (the only reason I'm not even more angry is we had bugger all money to spend on the footy department), but you cant pin it on the head coach.
 
Last edited:

eastfreo75

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#35
Brett Ratten was a disaster at Carlton as senior coach. We are still paying today for his tenure.

We did not have a list manager back in his day. He was the boss of the football department and had sway over the recruiting and trading as well. In fact he had his fingers in almost every part of the club, even non football related things. Part of the reason he was given the arse.

Read the lists for recruiting and trading below. Pathetic. Set the club back 10 years in just five years of coaching. He thought he had a list that was good enough and did not treat the draft with respect or use trading strategically.

Fred Flinstone could have coached the Carlton list to 5th in 2011. Sadly the work in 2009 and 2010 did not attempt to turn over the list or build it up.

Recruiting.


2011 National Draft
Pick 22:
Josh Bootsma, Sth Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 44: Sam Rowe, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 62: Dylan Buckley, Northern Knights U18


2010 National Draft
Pick 18: Matthew Watson, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 34: Patrick McCarthy, Glenelg, SANFL
Pick 42: Luke Mitchell, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 67: Andrew McInnes, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 70: Nick Duigan, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 85: Jeffery Garlett, Promoted Rookie
Pick 99: David Ellard, Promoted Rookie
Pick 108: Simon White, Promoted Rookie


2009 National Draft
Pick 12: Kane Lucas, East Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 43: Marcus Davies, North Hobart
Pick 59: Rohan Kerr*, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 72: Sam Jacobs, Promoted Rookie
Pick 85: Aaron Joseph, Promoted Rookie


2008 National Draft
Pick 6: Chris Yarran, Swan Districts, WAFL
Pick 40: Mitch Robinson, Tassie Devils U18
Pick 65: Rhys O'Keeffe, North Adelaide, SANFL
Pick 80: Caleb Tiller*, Murray Bushrangers U18
Pick 85: Pass


TRADING


End of Year 2011 Trades
Nil


End of Year 2010 Trades
Shaun Grigg to Richmond in return for Andrew Collins.
Sam Jacobs to Adelaide in return for Picks 34 Patrick McCarthy and 67 Andrew McInnes.
Picks 37 (George Horlin-Smith) and 53 (Jordan Schroder) to Geelong for Jeremy Laidler and Pick 42 Luke Mitchell.


2009 Trades
Draft choice 11 (Jordan Gysberts) to Melbourne for Brock McLean.
Brendan Fevola and Pick 27 (Callum Bartlett) traded to Brisbane for Lachlan Henderson and Pick 12 Kane Lucas.


2008 Trades
Draft choices 24 (Nick Suban), 56 (Ben Bucovaz) and 72 (Will Young) to Fremantle for Robert Warnock and draft choice 69.
Do you realize the drafts that you are talking about the Suns and Giants got most of the talent?
 

Bunk Moreland

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#36
Ive said it before and I'll say it again, he was the most unfairly treated senior coach I've seen for some time.

He totally deserves another shot.

That ssaid, if Carlton fans couldnt warm to him, I fear for him with another head gig.
That’s about Carlton fans, not him.

You’d think as a favourite son he’d have been admired. He wasn’t - Carlton people and their big club complex, too big for a rookie coach, was the reason for that.
 

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Thread starter #39
Our game style really isn't that different, its just execution and confidence. Ratten can't have hurt and hes probably been a good influence, but belief is just as important
Looks a fair bit different to me.

Harder to score against and your defence always seems to be set.

Last year I remember when u seemed to have numbers that were static and just standing in position not near the ball.

Overall a different set up.
 
Last edited:

btdg

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#40
That’s about Carlton fans, not him.

You’d think as a favourite son he’d have been admired. He wasn’t - Carlton people and their big club complex, too big for a rookie coach, was the reason for that.
There was incredible media pressure on Ratten too. All this stuff about us not getting over the hump, not being able to beat top 4 teams, it went on and on and on.

In reality, we were a young team who were still developing and then copped a bad run with injuries in 2012. Ratten was a developing coach with plenty of positives and negatives, who we should have backed in.

Our mistake was in not tuning out the media hype. Not backing in a good Carlton person and thinking about what he needed to be successful.

We’ve certainly paid the price for it, many times over.
 
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#41
Everyone thinks based on the ladder position that we were a destined for another decade at the bottom. If anyone even watched any games from last year, especially the first 10 rounds, we were not playing bad at all. We simply couldn't convert. Kicked 5.15 once from memory. Combine that with a handful of close losses and it can really suck the life out of you.

This year we haven't been as bad in front of goal, and slightly better defensively, and instead of close losses we've had close wins. Other than that not much has changed.
 

BEEG

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#43
Brett Ratten was a disaster at Carlton as senior coach. We are still paying today for his tenure.

We did not have a list manager back in his day. He was the boss of the football department and had sway over the recruiting and trading as well. In fact he had his fingers in almost every part of the club, even non football related things. Part of the reason he was given the arse.

Read the lists for recruiting and trading below. Pathetic. Set the club back 10 years in just five years of coaching. He thought he had a list that was good enough and did not treat the draft with respect or use trading strategically.

Fred Flinstone could have coached the Carlton list to 5th in 2011. Sadly the work in 2009 and 2010 did not attempt to turn over the list or build it up.

Recruiting.


2011 National Draft
Pick 22:
Josh Bootsma, Sth Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 44: Sam Rowe, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 62: Dylan Buckley, Northern Knights U18


2010 National Draft
Pick 18: Matthew Watson, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 34: Patrick McCarthy, Glenelg, SANFL
Pick 42: Luke Mitchell, Calder Cannons U18
Pick 67: Andrew McInnes, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 70: Nick Duigan, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 85: Jeffery Garlett, Promoted Rookie
Pick 99: David Ellard, Promoted Rookie
Pick 108: Simon White, Promoted Rookie


2009 National Draft
Pick 12: Kane Lucas, East Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 43: Marcus Davies, North Hobart
Pick 59: Rohan Kerr*, Dandenong Stingrays U18
Pick 72: Sam Jacobs, Promoted Rookie
Pick 85: Aaron Joseph, Promoted Rookie


2008 National Draft
Pick 6: Chris Yarran, Swan Districts, WAFL
Pick 40: Mitch Robinson, Tassie Devils U18
Pick 65: Rhys O'Keeffe, North Adelaide, SANFL
Pick 80: Caleb Tiller*, Murray Bushrangers U18
Pick 85: Pass


TRADING


End of Year 2011 Trades
Nil


End of Year 2010 Trades
Shaun Grigg to Richmond in return for Andrew Collins.
Sam Jacobs to Adelaide in return for Picks 34 Patrick McCarthy and 67 Andrew McInnes.
Picks 37 (George Horlin-Smith) and 53 (Jordan Schroder) to Geelong for Jeremy Laidler and Pick 42 Luke Mitchell.


2009 Trades
Draft choice 11 (Jordan Gysberts) to Melbourne for Brock McLean.
Brendan Fevola and Pick 27 (Callum Bartlett) traded to Brisbane for Lachlan Henderson and Pick 12 Kane Lucas.


2008 Trades
Draft choices 24 (Nick Suban), 56 (Ben Bucovaz) and 72 (Will Young) to Fremantle for Robert Warnock and draft choice 69.
This sadly says more about Carlton then Ratten
 
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Moderator #45
Brett Ratten was a disaster at Carlton as senior coach. We are still paying today for his tenure.

We did not have a list manager back in his day. He was the boss of the football department and had sway over the recruiting and trading as well. In fact he had his fingers in almost every part of the club, even non football related things. Part of the reason he was given the arse.

Read the lists for recruiting and trading below. Pathetic. Set the club back 10 years in just five years of coaching. He thought he had a list that was good enough and did not treat the draft with respect or use trading strategically.

Fred Flinstone could have coached the Carlton list to 5th in 2011. Sadly the work in 2009 and 2010 did not attempt to turn over the list or build it up.
He thought he had a list good enough for top 4 after making finals in three consecutive years (and without needing the AFL to disqualify a side to do so). And he might have in 2012 if half the senior side wasnt injured for large parts of the year. He was very hard done by simply because the club chased Malthouse.
 

Obeanie1

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#46
If your head coach is responsible for all your recruiting that is the club's fault.

Who were Shane Rogers and Wayne Hughes?
Was thinking the same.

Why would a club load up the coach with recruiting. Thats plain dumb. You need a dedicated recruiting team and head recruitment person.

Carlton have no one but themselves to blame.
 
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#47
I'd take him back as senior coach. His sacking was a travesty... Still not over it. In 2012 we were ravaged by injuries and still had some spirited victories. The media pressure and short sighted fans just kept applying the pressure because people actually believed we were or should be a top four side.

I like Bolton but do have some concern about the tactical side of his game. Ratts on the other hand has a great footy brain. He should be next in line for a senior coaching gig
 
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#48
Was thinking the same.

Why would a club load up the coach with recruiting. Thats plain dumb. You need a dedicated recruiting team and head recruitment person.

Carlton have no one but themselves to blame.
Shane Rogers and Wayne Hughes destroyed our club. Guess how many players drafted between 2008-2014 are still on the list? Ed Curnow and Patrick Cripps. I calculated once that out of 22 draft selections, 2 turned out to be good footballers. That's why we presently suck.
 

JackFlash

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#49
Maybe North Melbourne should be looking closely at Ratten? Obviously the clubs that are doing well this year have adapted better to the new rule changes. The Demons and Roos simply haven't?
 
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#50
We did not have a list manager back in his day. He was the boss of the football department and had sway over the recruiting and trading as well. In fact he had his fingers in almost every part of the club, even non football related things. Part of the reason he was given the arse.

Certainly not over all things Carlton at that point in time but as said , if he was running roughshot over your footy department as has been pointed out that’s entirely on your clubs board

-utterly unprofessional and should’ve given you a fair idea into why your club was such a shambles then, blaming it all on one person ,whether true or not just proves the point.

Your also making the mistake of thinking both/multiple roles were/are mutually inclusive .
A coach is there to coach and can be still good at it while not being so good at other football related roles.

Again that’s why you have specialists in these areas

The whole recruiting and trading strategy was Ratten. Ask around about how Kane Lucas was recruited at pick 12.
Revisionism at its finest.
I remember that draft well, 2009 and Lucas was one of the top rated prospects mate- if anything it was a mild surprise he went outside the top 10
Some draft picks are just duds, being a supporter of Carlton I would’ve thought thats been pretty obvious
 
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