Is Brisbane the worst top two side ever?

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PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
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Not sure of the point there. Surely you aren’t trying to compare a normal season for a Vic team to the hub situation for Brisbane.

Why not? At least most of the teams playing in Brisbane from interstate were based there and playing there multiple times in a row. Teams going to Melbourne don’t get that luxury, which balances out the fact that many of the Melbourne teams’ games are against other Melbourne teams
 

kozi

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Oct 14, 2011
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Why not? At least most of the teams playing in Brisbane from interstate were based there and playing there multiple times in a row. Teams going to Melbourne don’t get that luxury, which balances out the fact that many of the Melbourne teams’ games are against other Melbourne teams
a) Genuine home ground advantage for 5 games in a year

b) Genuine home ground advantage for almost all games in a year

I mean, how moronic does one actually have to be to hold both a) and b) as the same or similar.
 

JasRulz63

Norm Smith Medallist
May 26, 2007
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a) Genuine home ground advantage for 5 games in a year

b) Genuine home ground advantage for almost all games in a year

I mean, how moronic does one actually have to be to hold both a) and b) as the same or similar.
How is playing at Metricon a genuine home ground advantage for Brisbane? We literally play there once a season.
 

JasRulz63

Norm Smith Medallist
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Not sure of the point there. Surely you aren’t trying to compare a normal season for a Vic team to the hub situation for Brisbane.
So in your opinion, a normal season for a Victorian team is just as equitable as a normal season for interstate teams?

My point is that the competition has always been uneven, and this year the advantage has happened to flip the other way. Yet because it's now not the privileged Victorian sides being advantaged, it's now a huge advantage, when in my opinion, it's not as big as you're making it out to be.
 

kozi

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How is playing at Metricon a genuine home ground advantage for Brisbane? We literally play there once a season.
Ok so you’re saying if a MCG tenant plays an interstate team at Marvel there would be little to no advantage. Hold a mirror up to that point for just a moment.

So in your opinion, a normal season for a Victorian team is just as equitable as a normal season for interstate teams?
Precisely. You travel ~6 more times a year but also have ~6 more games with a genuine home ground advantage per year. The former is what gets overblown but the latter somehow gets glossed over.

My point is that the competition has always been uneven, and this year the advantage has happened to flip the other way. Yet because it's now not the privileged Victorian sides being advantaged, it's now a huge advantage, when in my opinion, it's not as big as you're making it out to be.
You’re comparing teams spending a whole season living and playing interstate to a team travelling every 2nd week and trying to say it’s the same disadvantage. You really went off the rails there.

In any case the thinking that a normal season is some hugely unbalanced thing is plain wrong. I’ll go a step further and say even if this imbalance did exist the way you’re saying then this season still would be light years away from being some sort of equal flip the other way.
 

Ron The Bear

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Jul 4, 2006
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Had Brisbane made the GF, it would’ve been a mismatch aa Richmond are more experienced. Experience always wins the day on GF day.
It's much less of a factor in finals. Older teams in finals win 51% of the time, compared with 58% of non-finals. In fact where the age difference is under two years - as it is in 87% of finals - it's a 50/50 call.
 

Final Siren

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Aug 18, 2009
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How can this be a question when Fremantle 2015 exists?

Fremantle broke in half during the bye and, despite a generous second-half fixture, limped into finals on the back of a series of flukey close wins and 10+ goal thrashings at the hands of good teams.

They fell over the line in a home QF against an injured Sydney side that couldn't hit the side of a barn, then got wiped out at home the next game against Hawthorn.

To prove it wasn't just a bad patch, they opened the next season 0-10 before finishing 3rd last.
 
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Coaster2012

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I'll be surprised if Brisbane make the GF next year. Since when does a team have linear progression year upon year until they make the GF? It just doesn't happen like that in an inperfect world.
 

PhatBoy

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I'll be surprised if Brisbane make the GF next year. Since when does a team have linear progression year upon year until they make the GF? It just doesn't happen like that in an inperfect world.

Well it’s been a whole year since a side that had steadily improved took the last step to actually making a grand final
 

Righteo

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How can this be a question when Fremantle 2015 exists?

Fremantle broke in half during the bye and, despite a generous second-half fixture, limped into finals on the back of a series of flukey close wins and 10+ goal thrashings at the hands of good teams.

They fell over the line in a home QF against an injured Sydney side that couldn't hit the side of a barn, then got wiped out at home the next game against Hawthorn.

To prove it wasn't just a bad patch, they opened the next season 0-10 before finishing 3rd last.
Yeah, that Hawthorn team was garbage. Even with Fyfe on one leg we should have snotted those fairies. Seriously, what's with all the emotive language? I thought you were more of an analytics-focused poster. Make the argument again but using stats and figures to show why we were so bad instead of the lazy revisionism. I think there is a valid argument but this reads like a Bay post.
 

MadMundy

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They're still a very good team but I think this year was their peak best chance to win. Gonna be much harder next year.
 

Coaster2012

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Well it’s been a whole year since a side that had steadily improved took the last step to actually making a grand final
You are reffering to Geelong? How many lost prelims did it take? Lions have been progressing up the ladder in a linear fashion for a couple of years and winning more finals. It's a rare thing for that to happen. Usually there is a down year. I think that will be Lions next year.
 

PhatBoy

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You are reffering to Geelong? How many lost prelims did it take?

GWS. Missed finals with 11 wins.
Lost a prelim.
Lost a QF, won a SF, lost a prelim.
Won a QF, lost a prelim.
Won an EF, won a SF, won a prelim, lost a GF

Ok so their first tilt at the finals they won in week one and made a prelim but I think by any measure most people would say that as a team contesting their first ever finals series they probably overachieved slightly. Their overall win numbers haven't gone up incrementally but their season result has if you remove that result. They've become a better finals team with each year up to the point of making a grand final.
 

Coaster2012

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GWS. Missed finals with 11 wins.
Lost a prelim.
Lost a QF, won a SF, lost a prelim.
Won a QF, lost a prelim.
Won an EF, won a SF, won a prelim, lost a GF

Ok so their first tilt at the finals they won in week one and made a prelim but I think by any measure most people would say that as a team contesting their first ever finals series they probably overachieved slightly. Their overall win numbers haven't gone up incrementally but their season result has if you remove that result. They've become a better finals team with each year up to the point of making a grand final.
Nothing about that is linear.

Lions have gone:
18th spot
15th spot
2nd spot then Semi
2nd spot then Prelim

To go from that to a GF would be a perfectly linear progression which doesn't really happen, so I'm dubious that it will happen in 2021.
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
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Nothing about that is linear.

Lions have gone:
18th spot
15th spot
2nd spot then Semi
2nd spot then Prelim

To go from that to a GF would be a perfectly linear progression which doesn't really happen, so I'm dubious that it will happen in 2021.
In terms of where they finished at year's end, as I said remove their first finals finish, and it is linear. yes the prelim results finished at the same juncture, but by any measure you would say that their finals performance went on an upward trajectory after that initial failure.
 

Junction Lion

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Nothing about that is linear.

Lions have gone:
18th spot
15th spot
2nd spot then Semi
2nd spot then Prelim

To go from that to a GF would be a perfectly linear progression which doesn't really happen, so I'm dubious that it will happen in 2021.
That is a fair call Coaster. You speak more sense than most. Lions have the 4th youngest list so should be around for a while. Two 2nd places on the ladder have given fans a lot of wins and a lot of joy and obviously made some sad sacks quite bitter towards us. Yes there has been disappointment in finals however we arrived a lot earlier than I though we would. We look to be a destination club now so hopefully we recruit to our needs as we are still a work in progress.
 

HG Pennypacker

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Sep 15, 2011
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I like the lions. Well run club that has turned round what was a basket case situation not that long ago. Drafted and recruited well and built a good culture. I think there mat be a slight bathwater vibe about them and they might have thought they were better than they were but they will be contenders for a few years to come. Midfield needs another elite talent (not that they grow on trees) and the forward line needs tweaking but they have a lot of talent and the best defender I have seen for a while.
 

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