Is Buckley A Good Match-Day Coach?

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jackcass

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Rubbish. He's one of the few pundits in the media thinking for themselves.

There's a mass delusion in the media that Buckley deserves an extension. It's insane!
Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. You’ll agree with some, disagree with others. But I do think that it’s interesting that people promote those they agree with as “thinking for themselves” and such like, while being equally dismissive of those they disagree with.
 

jackcass

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I think that has already started Matt, second lowest crowd for us on the weekend at the G in 30 odd years . people are losing interest in what has been the Collingwood sh!tshow of the last 8 months, time to rejuvenate the whole club, only one who should stay is Wright , the rest can go , see ya Bucks , won`t be purchasing family membership next year if he is still there . first time in 45 years . enough of my hard earned for this rabble of an outfit, most are losing interest, I am tuning out, not as emotionally invested as i have been, I don`t mind losing, but when the players have tuned out , what is point of flogging a dead horse. rather mow the lawn
It wasn’t even our lowest crowd against GCS in Melbourne. Had about 17.6K at Docklands in 2017.
 

swoop42

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I'm bemused that some in the media (and a few across the boards) are calling for the immediate re-signing of Nathan Buckley when the club currently sits at 1-6.

Hell even if we were currently sitting middle of the table or limped into and out of finals I'd be seriously questioning the future of Buckley after 10 years in charge.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion how many in the media or on here actually take the time to educate themselves on the issue, look beyond pure emotion and seek out some facts when discussing this issue?

I have and for me at least the discussion is now over after I looked towards history to guide our future.

The simple reality Collingwood must now look squarely in the face of and the awful truth for Buckley is that across the last 100 years not one of the 45 premiership coaches in this period won their first flag beyond their first 9 seasons in charge. Buckley is now in his 10th season.

That statistic alone provides no cause for hope for any Collingwood supporter moving forward should Buckley be retained and if history indicates his chances of ever becoming a Premiership coach now are minuscule then we surely must ask why bother continuing with him beyond 2021?

But that is not where the bad news ends for Buckley and Collingwood I'm afraid on the history front.

If you study the records of the 45 Premiership coaches a little deeper you will see that only 2 produced the same results that Buckley did between the years 2014-2017 (miss 4 consecutive final series) before going on to claim their first Premiership as coach. The odds against him have just increased.

Finally and of less importance Buckley in not having won a Premiership himself as a player places himself in the position of trying to win one as a coach which while not impossible those coaches are in the minority and if you look at the last 30 years of the 14 Premiership coaches 9 were Premiership players so just under 2/3.

When you add it all up though those 3 pointers above when extracted from 100 years of history and the records of the 45 Premiership coaches suggests to me that our chances at success in the coming seasons will be enhanced with a new coach with time and history still on his side.

For Buckley however history says time has run out and the dream is over.
 

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Redlight

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I'm bemused that some in the media (and a few across the boards) are calling for the immediate re-signing of Nathan Buckley when the club currently sits at 1-6.

Hell even if we were currently sitting middle of the table or limped into and out of finals I'd be seriously questioning the future of Buckley after 10 years in charge.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion how many in the media or on here actually take the time to educate themselves on the issue, look beyond pure emotion and seek out some facts when discussing this issue?

I have and for me at least the discussion is now over after I looked towards history to guide our future.

The simple reality Collingwood must now look squarely in the face of and the awful truth for Buckley is that across the last 100 years not one of the 45 premiership coaches in this period won their first flag beyond their first 9 seasons in charge. Buckley is now in his 10th season.

That statistic alone provides no cause for hope for any Collingwood supporter moving forward should Buckley be retained and if history indicates his chances of ever becoming a Premiership coach now are minuscule then we surely must ask why bother continuing with him beyond 2021?

But that is not where the bad news ends for Buckley and Collingwood I'm afraid on the history front.

If you study the records of the 45 Premiership coaches a little deeper you will see that only 2 produced the same results that Buckley did between the years 2014-2017 (miss 4 consecutive final series) before going on to claim their first Premiership as coach. The odds against him have just increased.

Finally and of less importance Buckley in not having won a Premiership himself as a player places himself in the position of trying to win one as a coach which while not impossible those coaches are in the minority and if you look at the last 30 years of the 14 Premiership coaches 9 were Premiership players so just under 2/3.

When you add it all up though those 3 pointers above when extracted from 100 years of history and the records of the 45 Premiership coaches suggests to me that our chances at success in the coming seasons will be enhanced with a new coach with time and history still on his side.

For Buckley however history says time has run out and the dream is over.
Your argument could equally mean that it's more likely to happen now than it ever has been.

Wright is at the club, new to the place (in recent times) and from a club that's been very successful. He'll make the call and it will be better informed and more knowledgeable than any posted here or anything that Matthew Lloyd could ever hope to produce. I'll back his call, whichever way it falls.

Our list management is at the heart of the current car crash, so the people responsible for that will be very nervous. If it wasn't Buckley then there's every chance that Wright will back him in for another couple.
 

Civilest

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Let’s face it Bucks as a player and senior coach has never been involved in a premiership with Collingwood. He doesn’t care about the club he cares about his own legacy.
I want him replaced but you’re mistaken, he does care about the club. He already has a good legacy because he cares. He believes in his approach and tactics, which I disagree with. I think is false to say he puts himself before the club.
 

BringouttheGimp

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Bucks 2 year extension next few weeks. Book mark it.


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If we offer him 2 yrs.. that there is 2 premierships in 60 yrs worth of history right there.

Perhaps we're just a club that wants to be the center of attention.. a club that wants to continuously ride the high horse.. a club that values their champions and gives them precedence to do as they see fit.. and if a premiership comes our way.. well that's just a bonus..

Perhaps we've always meant to have it hard.. because we think our sh*t don't stink.. none of the sh*t we've had to endure.. over the course of the last 60.. is of our own volition.

We are Collingwood.. if you're not a favourite son.. or a proven coach.. then we don't want you.. we are the high.. and we are the mighty.

If this club is going to succeed.. it's going to have let go of the past.. and get with the times mate.. that requires a momentous shift in culture starting with the boys club.. I doubt that will ever happen anytime soon though.. because that would mean we have to embarrass ourselves even further.. if we're going to reap the rewards down the track.. for a high and mighty club that wants to flex their muscles at every opportunity.. to go from a cigar smoking hot shot pot puri of a club sitting at a bar.. to a club that blends in with the crowd.. flies under the radar.. I doubt we'll get there anytime soon.. when that's precisely what we need to do in order to succeed.
 
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BringouttheGimp

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Your argument could equally mean that it's more likely to happen now than it ever has been.

Wright is at the club, new to the place (in recent times) and from a club that's been very successful. He'll make the call and it will be better informed and more knowledgeable than any posted here or anything that Matthew Lloyd could ever hope to produce. I'll back his call, whichever way it falls.

Our list management is at the heart of the current car crash, so the people responsible for that will be very nervous. If it wasn't Buckley then there's every chance that Wright will back him in for another couple.
List management.. Is Buckley not partly responsible for the debacle?
 

BringouttheGimp

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Oh Buckley has taken us to finals.. well woopdidoo.. were we a bottom 8 side in any one of those yrs?

And wouldn't you say another prerequisite of a good coach is being able to coach well when it matters most.. playing 3-4 consecutive games to win premierships? How will we ever win one when Buckley's New England Cyborg data correlation spurting playbook is an easy read for the likes of Simpson and Cameron?

How did I win the Lavazza Turkish Coffee Cup? Because every recipe was out of cookbook? 50 shades of sexy mate.
 
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jmac70

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Your argument could equally mean that it's more likely to happen now than it ever has been.

Wright is at the club, new to the place (in recent times) and from a club that's been very successful. He'll make the call and it will be better informed and more knowledgeable than any posted here or anything that Matthew Lloyd could ever hope to produce. I'll back his call, whichever way it falls.

Our list management is at the heart of the current car crash, so the people responsible for that will be very nervous. If it wasn't Buckley then there's every chance that Wright will back him in for another couple.
Wright will make a recommendation, but Anderson & Korda will make the call. They might prefer an entirely new coaching panel as a way of demonstrating change. I also suspect Hine and Guy will be moved on.

The timeline for a decision might also be blown out of the water if we lose to North. This is a massive week for the club.
 

Collingwood2022

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Wright will make a recommendation, but Anderson & Korda will make the call. They might prefer an entirely new coaching panel as a way of demonstrating change. I also suspect Hine and Guy will be moved on.

The timeline for a decision might also be blown out of the water if we lose to North. This is a massive week for the club.
Indeed so to bring this sham to an end thereby providing the players with some much needed clear air (phew!) suggest Norf needs to beat our Nafan (sorry I mean Collingwood) :cool:
 

Scribe26

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I've got an argument that will blow this 160-page thread WIDE OPEN.

Did you know.... that we haven't won a premiership under Buckley!? :oops:

I have just deduced this. It comes as a shock to me. I hope you find it impactful.

Now, watch as I re-hash my argument 75 times, every time the club loses on the weekend.
 

Maggie5

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He actually gets a lot of his material from journo mates. He obv has to agree with it, but regardless, none of this makes what he said wrong. He has some pretty astute people feeding him info too, and he seems keen to get it out there to prove he’s a strong voice in the media.
Still doesn't make what I posted untrue. He is a hater of all things Collingwood and I wouldn't waste my time listening to him.
 

Linda_Lovelace

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I do not give a stuff what anyone in the media says or thinks. Its simply none of their business, its time the club put Collingwood first, forget trying to be friends with the other clubs and the AFL and act in our best interests.

Everything else is a distraction.
 

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sideswipe

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I'm bemused that some in the media (and a few across the boards) are calling for the immediate re-signing of Nathan Buckley when the club currently sits at 1-6.

Hell even if we were currently sitting middle of the table or limped into and out of finals I'd be seriously questioning the future of Buckley after 10 years in charge.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion how many in the media or on here actually take the time to educate themselves on the issue, look beyond pure emotion and seek out some facts when discussing this issue?

I have and for me at least the discussion is now over after I looked towards history to guide our future.

The simple reality Collingwood must now look squarely in the face of and the awful truth for Buckley is that across the last 100 years not one of the 45 premiership coaches in this period won their first flag beyond their first 9 seasons in charge. Buckley is now in his 10th season.

That statistic alone provides no cause for hope for any Collingwood supporter moving forward should Buckley be retained and if history indicates his chances of ever becoming a Premiership coach now are minuscule then we surely must ask why bother continuing with him beyond 2021?

But that is not where the bad news ends for Buckley and Collingwood I'm afraid on the history front.

If you study the records of the 45 Premiership coaches a little deeper you will see that only 2 produced the same results that Buckley did between the years 2014-2017 (miss 4 consecutive final series) before going on to claim their first Premiership as coach. The odds against him have just increased.

Finally and of less importance Buckley in not having won a Premiership himself as a player places himself in the position of trying to win one as a coach which while not impossible those coaches are in the minority and if you look at the last 30 years of the 14 Premiership coaches 9 were Premiership players so just under 2/3.

When you add it all up though those 3 pointers above when extracted from 100 years of history and the records of the 45 Premiership coaches suggests to me that our chances at success in the coming seasons will be enhanced with a new coach with time and history still on his side.

For Buckley however history says time has run out and the dream is over.
As Warren Buffett once said, "If past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians."
 

LuckyLee

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Let’s give him the same amount of time as Mick then compare.
Malthouse inherited a poor list on arrival at Collingwood and within a short space of time took flawed Collingwood sides to GF’s against Brisbane in 2002 & 2003. He then delivered the ultimate prize in 2010. I like Buckley but to suggest that he can ever get near MM’s record of success as a coach is nonsense.


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HeathComeBack

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Has there ever been any player at ANY club who has had as many privileges as Buckley at the Pies. He got to come to us under extremely dodgy circumstances, He was given a coaching job to get experience, he was anointed coach elect with no experience. He was given a job 2 years before he took over the role so he wouldn't go anywhere. He was given a team that was at the top of its game under controversy when arguably we shouldn't have changed anything. After some regression he got to get rid of the players he couldn't get on with so he could have "his team" so basically blew up a premiership team. He got extensions when the team was regressing. He has had 10 years at a job where the team got worse in 9 of those years.
And the kicker is he hasn't been responsible for a premiership in the 30 years he has been here. Amazing. I guess we will give Pendles 15 more years to win a premiership too after he retires too.
 

BringouttheGimp

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Has there ever been any player at ANY club who has had as many privileges as Buckley at the Pies. He got to come to us under extremely dodgy circumstances, He was given a coaching job to get experience, he was anointed coach elect with no experience. He was given a job 2 years before he took over the role so he wouldn't go anywhere. He was given a team that was at the top of its game under controversy when arguably we shouldn't have changed anything. After some regression he got to get rid of the players he couldn't get on with so he could have "his team" so basically blew up a premiership team. He got extensions when the team was regressing. He has had 10 years at a job where the team got worse in 9 of those years.
And the kicker is he hasn't been responsible for a premiership in the 30 years he has been here. Amazing. I guess we will give Pendles 15 more years to win a premiership too after he retires too.
And apparently our list management issues are all on Hine and Ned..

What.. Buckley Ned and Hine have yet to meet each other collectively as a group at the club.. only passed by each other in the corridors.. was it a coincidence the lads Buckley coached at the AIS Adams Treloar WHE Aish were all on Hines radar? Was it a coincidence Shaw Didak Johnson and these types were either traded or retired by 30.. and Dunn and Mayne are getting 1 yr deals even though they've passed their used by dates.. was Treloar Stephenson and Phillips pushed out by Hine? The love Buckley have for Reid Blair Langdon Cox.. when there were opportunities to be dynamic and bold and trade these blokes.. all on Hine?

Buckley is a big player in the whole list management debacle.. in big and bright and bold colors.. his fingerprints are all over it.
 
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SprooseMoose

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I said previously in this thread that he's not a good coach. I'll revise that this year, and for much of 2020, he's not. But I'll add that he CAN be a good coach. People in this thread repeatedly speak to his record of the 2018 G.F/recent finals appearances, top 4's and the Coach of the Year award. So yes, he's got the ability in him. I think it requires the right assistants backing him up, and him agreeing to step back and delegate responsibility more. When that was all in place, we did well.

If the club were to reappoint him, the only way I'd be happy with it is if it was with the intent revert back to what worked (better assistants, less mates, more listening, more delegating), coupled with an honest assurance that the players are still buying in. Almost like we need another of those "Reviews". Because at the moment it appears the only reverting we've done so far is to play like it's pre-2018. I honestly don't think we can dismiss the toll that the off-season from hell may have taken on the players. It's not unreasonable to suggest that current efforts are indicative of a team that's not playing for the coach.

At the moment, more recent performances, coupled with the time he's had in the job without success, I tend to think he's not the man to take us forward.
 

BringouttheGimp

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I said previously in this thread that he's not a good coach. I'll revise that this year, and for much of 2020, he's not. But I'll add that he CAN be a good coach. People in this thread repeatedly speak to his record of the 2018 G.F/recent finals appearances, top 4's and the Coach of the Year award. So yes, he's got the ability in him. I think it requires the right assistants backing him up, and him agreeing to step back and delegate responsibility more. When that was all in place, we did well.

If the club were to reappoint him, the only way I'd be happy with it is if it was with the intent revert back to what worked (better assistants, less mates, more listening, more delegating), coupled with an honest assurance that the players are still buying in. Almost like we need another of those "Reviews". Because at the moment it appears the only reverting we've done so far is to play like it's pre-2018. I honestly don't think we can dismiss the toll that the off-season from hell may have taken on the players. It's not unreasonable to suggest that current efforts are indicative of a team that's not playing for the coach.

At the moment, more recent performances, coupled with the time he's had in the job without success, I tend to think he's not the man to take us forward.
The off season from hell had a lot to do with him.. now what is he going to do.. cull the group he got upset? Delist and trade 80% of the list cause they gave him the evil eye.. or spoke up against him? How many employeess have come and gone around him.. and yet he still survives?

Something stinks!
 

Toecrusher

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I said previously in this thread that he's not a good coach. I'll revise that this year, and for much of 2020, he's not. But I'll add that he CAN be a good coach. People in this thread repeatedly speak to his record of the 2018 G.F/recent finals appearances, top 4's and the Coach of the Year award. So yes, he's got the ability in him. I think it requires the right assistants backing him up, and him agreeing to step back and delegate responsibility more. When that was all in place, we did well.

If the club were to reappoint him, the only way I'd be happy with it is if it was with the intent revert back to what worked (better assistants, less mates, more listening, more delegating), coupled with an honest assurance that the players are still buying in. Almost like we need another of those "Reviews". Because at the moment it appears the only reverting we've done so far is to play like it's pre-2018. I honestly don't think we can dismiss the toll that the off-season from hell may have taken on the players. It's not unreasonable to suggest that current efforts are indicative of a team that's not playing for the coach.

At the moment, more recent performances, coupled with the time he's had in the job without success, I tend to think he's not the man to take us forward.
My thoughts exactly.
There's no coincidence the GF in 2018 happened when new assistants appeared at the club and challenged the way we did things. Also no coincidence we've gone backwards now they're gone.
 

eddiesmith

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I said previously in this thread that he's not a good coach. I'll revise that this year, and for much of 2020, he's not. But I'll add that he CAN be a good coach. People in this thread repeatedly speak to his record of the 2018 G.F/recent finals appearances, top 4's and the Coach of the Year award. So yes, he's got the ability in him. I think it requires the right assistants backing him up, and him agreeing to step back and delegate responsibility more. When that was all in place, we did well.

If the club were to reappoint him, the only way I'd be happy with it is if it was with the intent revert back to what worked (better assistants, less mates, more listening, more delegating), coupled with an honest assurance that the players are still buying in. Almost like we need another of those "Reviews". Because at the moment it appears the only reverting we've done so far is to play like it's pre-2018. I honestly don't think we can dismiss the toll that the off-season from hell may have taken on the players. It's not unreasonable to suggest that current efforts are indicative of a team that's not playing for the coach.

At the moment, more recent performances, coupled with the time he's had in the job without success, I tend to think he's not the man to take us forward.
But as we saw after that, no assistants are going to hang around running the show as assistants when head coaching roles become available. So if Buckley can only be effective when it's his assistants running the show then clearly he's not up to the head coaching job.
 

No SPIN

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My thoughts exactly.
There's no coincidence the GF in 2018 happened when new assistants appeared at the club and challenged the way we did things. Also no coincidence we've gone backwards now they're gone.
isn’t the whole point of getting assistants to improve the team - if so then what’s the issue.

People bag Buckley’s Coaching ability, due to poor results prior to 2018 (when he had lower quality assistants) and then bag him again with good results, insisting it was due to the high quality of the assistants.

So the critics want it both ways.
 

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