Is Buckley A Good Coach?

[jathanas]

The senior coach is an important club figure and a legitimate topic of discussion. It's fair to do so and everyone has a right to express their view.

The mod team observed that the thread was dominated by a few protagonists and their points were repeated i.e. 8 years of regression vs marked improvement in 17,18 etc Pretty much everyone with a strong opinion has already expressed it here.

What further degraded discussion was the simplistic "sack FIGJAM" or "he's a legend" type posts.

This thread will remain open. If your view has slightly shifted or you have new thoughts please share. In an effort to encourage quality discussion repetitive statements and circular arguments will from now on be deleted as will silly posts suggesting that we sack a coach on match-day.

FYI Gone Critical Anzacday Maggie5

 

[sr36]

lets stop with the one year of improvement narrative -I’ve just explained it’s irrelevance. Particularly as we made the PF in 2019, still made the 8 last year. So clearly improvement since 2017 was not a fluke.

Now you want to shift the goals post to the review - isn’t a review undertaken to find a new insight to improving the club?
It worked spectacularly but you don’t want to give any credit to Bucks - that’s a fanciful position.
You want to blame him for everything before the review but give him no credit post the review.
Sounds very unfair and biased to me.

I'm not suggesting it was a fluke. I'm suggesting that it wouldn't have occurred without a review telling him how to do his job properly and I'm suggesting that the lessons of the review have gradually worn off.

He's a manager of players who has on several occasions admitted he isn't emotionally attuned. It's as core a skill as you can get.

 

[No SPIN]

I'm not suggesting it was a fluke. I'm suggesting that it wouldn't have occurred without a review telling him how to do his job properly and I'm suggesting that the lessons of the review have gradually worn off.

He's a manager of players who has on several occasions admitted he isn't emotionally attuned. It's as core a skill as you can get.

So it wasn’t a fluke - but now you have an issue that Bucks listened to advice to improve his Coaching.
Isnt that what every Coach seeks - self improvement from one season to another? That’s why they do study tours visiting other sporting clubs.

Seriously, this fixation with taking all credit away from Buckley is just tediously predictable and demonstrably inane.

 

[magpie_marty]

ok - if you want to discredit our wins.
Then why not also explain that Bucks was robbed of a flag due to Maynard not getting a blocking free.
You can’t have it both ways.

Are you placing blame on the umpires re the Maynard non free ?
How about Taylor Adams and a kick to Stephenson.
We where not robbed we lost.

 

[No SPIN]

Are you placing blame on the umpires re the Maynard non free ?
How about Taylor Adams and a kick to Stephenson.

I’m simply saying you can’t discredit Buckley and our win in the 2018 PF due to it being nothing more than luck ( Dusty on one leg and Cox best career performance) but then not acknowledge Buckley’s bad luck in the 2018 GF.

Bottom line - Luck had got nothing to do with it - Top4’s, PF and GFs are earnt not gifted.

 

[Anzacday]

 

[magpie_marty]

I’m simply saying you can’t discredit Buckley and our win in the 2018 PF due to it being nothing more than luck ( Dusty on one leg and Cox best career performance) but then not acknowledge Buckley’s bad luck in the 2018 GF.

Bottom line - Luck had got nothing to do with it - Top4’s, PF and GFs are earnt not gifted.

Luck plays a part in all sports,
A golfer hit's a perfect tee shot and land in a divot?
Is that Luck?
The bad bounce to Milne in a Grand Final was that luck?

 

[sr36]

So it wasn’t a fluke - but now you have an issue that Bucks listened to advice to improve his Coaching.
Isnt that what every Coach seeks - self improvement from one season to another? That’s why they do study tours visiting other sporting clubs.

Seriously, this fixation with taking all credit away from Buckley is just tediously predictable and demonstrably inane.

You realise that Adelaide jettisoned Sanderson after 3 years, despite having achieved what Bucks has in 10. It's not that uncommon for someone to come in with a new message and have short term success before dropping as their only message becomes stale. Unlike Sanderson, Bucks didn't even choose his own new message.

And no I'm not criticising Buckley for listening to advice. He is notoriously stubborn in his approach. I'm criticising him for not showing he can analyse and reflect on advice in order to drive his own development, but instead needing to have someone above tell him to do things differently.

 

[No SPIN]

You realise that Adelaide jettisoned Sanderson after 3 years, despite having achieved what Bucks has in 10. It's not that uncommon for someone to come in with a new message and have short term success before dropping as their only message becomes stale. Unlike Sanderson, Bucks didn't even choose his own new message.

And no I'm not criticising Buckley for listening to advice. He is notoriously stubborn in his approach. I'm criticising him for not showing he can analyse and reflect on advice in order to drive his own development, but instead needing to have someone above tell him to do things differently.

Sorry the above is completely contradictory.

 

[sr36]

Sorry the above is completely contradictory.

It would only appear contradictory if you don't understand the difference between being told what to do and receiving advice, analysing and then making a decision.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

The bad bounce to Milne in a Grand Final was that luck?

No

It is proof God hates the Tip Rat

 

[Carringbush2010]

I am going to jmac70's party.

Have a good time you two

 

[No SPIN]

It would only appear contradictory if you don't understand the difference between being told what to do and receiving advice, analysing and then making a decision.

you are spitting hairs - Buckley changed his approach after 2017 review - end of story.
That you chose to discredit what has been lauded universally makes you look petty.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

No

It is proof God hates the Tip Rat

How do you reckon Charles Darwin would have applied his theory of evolution when examining the tip rat re? Would have made his job a lot more difficult I reckon and that re.. hahahahaha. Oh God!

 

[No SPIN]

Luck plays a part in all sports,
A golfer hit's a perfect tee shot and land in a divot?
Is that Luck?
The bad bounce to Milne in a Grand Final was that luck?

I think to discredit Buckley’s achievements based on luck is completely disingenuous- which is exactly how this discussion started.

 

[sr36]

I think to discredit Buckley’s achievements based on luck is completely disingenuous- which is exactly how this discussion started.

During Bucks's time as coach, 9 different teams and 11 different coaches have made the grand final. I think you're overstating our achievements. Yes we made a grand final, but we've been very much median level performers and I'd argue that we've had better than median level lists during that time.

 

[jmac70]

During Bucks's time as coach, 9 different teams and 11 different coaches have made the grand final. I think you're overstating our achievements. Yes we made a grand final, but we've been very much median level performers and I'd argue that we've had better than median level lists during that time.

You can’t argue against maths. It’s not median to make five finals series in ten years. How many finals series have Richmond made in the last ten years?

 

[sr36]

You can’t argue against maths. It’s not median to make five finals series in ten years. How many finals series have Richmond made in the last ten years?

What is the median. I don't think 5 in 10 years would be far off the median.

And are you seriously trying to come up with a measure that has us as being as successful as Richmond over the last decade?

 

[No SPIN]

During Bucks's time as coach, 9 different teams and 11 different coaches have made the grand final. I think you're overstating our achievements. Yes we made a grand final, but we've been very much median level performers and I'd argue that we've had better than median level lists during that time.

In the last 3 years - 3 top 8, 2 top 4,
2 PF, And a GF. Coach of the year 2018.
Only Hardwick and maybe Scott have better 3 year records.
That’s why the commentators say he can Coach, and support his reappointment.
GW does not have a better resume on his desk today than Buckley’s.

No SENSIBLE analysis says otherwise.

 

[jmac70]

What is the median. I don't think 5 in 10 years would be far off the median.

And are you seriously trying to come up with a measure that has us as being as successful as Richmond over the last decade?

It’s maths. Can you name 9 teams that have made five finals series in the last ten years?

 

[Maggie5]

Have a good time you two

It would be interesting, apart from that I am not sure any more can be said about Buckley and his coaching career that hasn't already been said ad nauseam.

Just having a bit of fun as the cycle of football teams down and out then raising up after a couple of years is what it is.

I won't stop supporting my team because of a coach who is disliked by so many because of his win/loss record. I accept that I am in the minority on our board.

I can also acknowledge his mistakes without bagging the individual. Not sure what pleasure some posters get out of doing that.

 

[sr36]

It’s maths. Can you name 9 teams that have made five finals series in the last ten years?

I just checked, 4 is the median. 5 will probably be the median by the end of the year.

 

[jmac70]

I just checked, 4 is the median. 5 will probably be the median by the end of the year.

Is that you saying you’re wrong?

 

[sr36]

Is that you saying you’re wrong?

Which part was wrong? When I said I don't think 5 would be far off the median? You're the one who chose 10 years which includes this year as Bucks has only coached 9 other seasons. And at the end of this season the median will be 4, 4.5 or 5. So even under the measure you cherry picked to suggest that our performance has been well above the median, we're going to be bloody close to the median, if not right on it.

 

[jmac70]

Which part was wrong? When I said I don't think 5 would be far off the median? You're the one who chose 10 years which includes this year as Bucks has only coached 9 other seasons. And at the end of this season the median will be 4, 4.5 or 5. So even under the measure you cherry picked to suggest that our performance has been well above the median, we're going to be bloody close to the median, if not right on it.

Maybe we should drill down further. What is the median for finals played in the last ten years? We are at 12.

 

[sr36]

Maybe we should drill down further. What is the median for finals played in the last ten years? We are at 12.

Absolutely. When we find a whole lot of stats that suggest our performance has been right on the median, let's ignore them and keep looking for stats that suggest Bucks has made us over achieve as a team.

Premierships - irrelevant
Grand finals - irrelevant
Finals appearances - irrelevant

There must be a stat out there. Let's re-sign him for another 3 years.