Is Carltons 2012 Season Over?

[DivideandMultiply]

Pretty bizarre post this. I watch your side often enough.

Well then no excuse for lack of understanding.

Our clearance numbers are down.

Our tackle numbers are way down.

Our efficiency is up.

Our pressure acts are up.

We approach stoppages differently, use the press only on occasion and prefer to work the ball by foot methodically now instead of bombing it into our forwardline.

 

[Clay Davis]

Those improvements in stats arise from incremental improvements, not massive change in game style. As I said earlier. Nothing vastly different going on at the Eagles aside from what's necessary due to lack of personnel.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Injuries have hurt their final chances but I never seriously rated them for the premiership because the fact is they probably have the weakest spine (key position players) of the teams in higher parts of the ladder.

This is probably a fair call. Jameson, Henderson, Warnock/Hampson, Waite and Kruezer looks pretty good on paper but is just not working for them at the moment.

Plus the depth issues that have been explained.

Would very much love Warnock or Hampson at the Cats though.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Those improvements in stats arise from incremental improvements, not massive change in game style. As I said earlier. Nothing vastly different going on at the Eagles aside from what's necessary due to lack of personnel.

The adjustments in gameplan are obvious, especially at stoppages. I imagine or hope you are simply disagreeing just to be provocative, otherwise you need to pay more attention.

 

[Clay Davis]

Urgh, yeah, OK. I don't agree. There's nothing fundamentally different about West Coast's midfield structure. But you're a dog with bone on this shit, in your wannabe Gunnar mode, so I'll leave you to indulge in your onanistic pleasure.

 

[Jmac2225]

Warnocks a beauty but I don't really rate Hampson. Not that I rate our ruckman either but I'd want better than Hampson.

 

[blues_future]

I think we're cooked personally. We can afford to lose maybe 3 of our last 10 games... a ridiculous ask considering we've won one of our last 6, that being against the then winless Melbourne.

Reasons for this:
- injuries, pre-season and during season, have targetted our biggest areas of weakness: key position forwards and inside midfielders
- our list does not have the required depth to be top 4 (all teams get injuries, though not as quite as bad as us usually)
- our game plan has been found out entirely. teams flood our stoppages every week now.
- we don't have a strong enough structure to assist new players or average players do their job and help the team....we win games on talent, not tactics.

Personally I think Ratten should seriously come into calculation for sacking. He's had 5 and a half years to get the team into the top 4, albeit from a very average position. I don't think he's done enough to warrant another year considering Malthouse would likely be more than happy to take over.

I hope that we turn it around, Ratts keeps his job and we go on to give the finals a shake with key players back and fit. But very unlikely.

Players and coaching staff need to take responsibility for this mess. The club needs a shake up from top to bottom.

Agreed. And Clay Davis seems to have a good handle on us. Also JMac2225 if you reckon Warnock's a beauty.....you can have him. Hoepfully we trade him to GWS for something good and give Hampson a decent run as a ruckman (which he is) and not a forward (which he isn't). But seeing Ratts is living sometime in the 1990s and thinks Warnock is Justin MAdden, we will probably give hinm another huge contract and trade away Hammo for nothing like we did with Jacobs.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

I'm not going to pretend that I can recognize one game plan vs another, especially when by far the most matches I see are on TV and I'm not watching to analyze.

However, yes I think Carlton's season is done, even if they make the 8. They'll just be making up the numbers come finals time, even in this, probably one year where the eventual premier could come from outside the top 4.

Whilst the depth is a concern, and always will be when you pay one bloke something around a million bucks, the talent on the park is but one aspect of the reasons behind their dramatic fall in premiership calculations. As usual, there are several factors and certainly the game plan can't be dismissed, but the one that they can fix is possibly the one they miss the most; the right attitude.

The best teams all have a terrific attitude no matter what the score and no matter who is missing from the side. It was a major factor in Geelong turning their season around in 2007, it assisted the Hawks greatly in 2008, it was a major reason why St Kilda were so tantalizingly dominant in 2009 and it's a big part of why Collingwood remain favorites now.

Once teams, collectively all players (or nea enough to it), say to themselves, "I've had enough of this shyte. Let's smash some teams" and they all work harder than they ever thought they could, they become a major threat.

Let me also say that I despise this split keyboard "feature" on iPad with iOS 5

 

[Fadge]

I tell you what, if they manage to make the finals, which is still on the cards, and have all their players firing at some reasonable level of fitness, there's gonna be some nervous teams above us.

You poor sod.

Have a listen to yourself - 'if Carlton makes the finals', and 'if they have all their players firing'.

Is that really where you expected to be after three rounds, possible nuisance value to the real contenders at the business end of the season?

 

[Monkey King]

You poor sod.

Have a listen to yourself - 'if Carlton makes the finals', and 'if they have all their players firing'.

Is that really where you expected to be after three rounds, possible nuisance value to the real contenders at the business end of the season?

Douche post Fadge. I'm a realist and right now it's all if's. I could play dumb like you Collingwood folk did last year and feign certainty, but I think we all know how that one turned out

 

[Fadge]

Douche post Fadge. I'm a realist and right now it's all if's. I could play dumb like you Collingwood folk did last year and feign certainty, but I think we all know how that one turned out

Turned out ok in 2010. They're pretty hard to win, and we're not without a chance this year.

All good from a Collingwood supporter's perspective.

 

[kman]

I think you've spent far too long on the main board trolling yourself. The lines between trolling and legitimate discussion have become blurred for you.
I suggest you take some time away from this thread whilst the grown-ups talk, if you can't add anything of substance to the thread whilst not "playing the man" (is that even a rule anymore?), don't post.

Only sating the facts pal. No need for the personal attack on me. Go through and read the thread yourself

 

[West Coast 06]

Urgh, yeah, OK. I don't agree. There's nothing fundamentally different about West Coast's midfield structure. But you're a dog with bone on this shit, in your wannabe Gunnar mode, so I'll leave you to indulge in your onanistic pleasure.

I don't think D&M is trying to be argumentative about West Coasts different structures this season, they are obvious and have been commented on by West Coast supporters a lot this year.
Our midfield has been far more attacking, and less worried about trying to stop the opposition. Our press has been less intensive and the delivery into the forward line more calculated.
I don't know if it is better or not to be honest. Certainly the forward line delivery is better IMO, especially when you consider our top forwards are not playing. However I don't know if I entirely like the head to head approach in the midfield as I think our players are a rung below the top midfields. Certainly I think the drop in tackle numbers is concerning.
I hope this is just the next step in Worsfolds masterplan to win our next premiership though, maybe we are just a year or so away from putting it all together.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Lol at Gibbs exploding this season. He reminds me of a Thai lady boy

 

[Damien Lee]

No, they've still got 10 games to go.

 

[Eagle87]

Not over at all; the coming weeks will determine that. As has been pointed out by others, Carlton have had up to 8 of their top 13 players out at times this year. I get that some say they should be able to cover it, but those detractors usually have to ignore their own criticisms of Carlton's lack of KP depth to pass it off. In reality, the Blues just came off a game they could have easily won against one of the top sides, in their "fortress" with some ultra dodgy umpiring, off 4 games in 18 days. I tell you what, if they manage to make the finals, which is still on the cards, and have all their players firing at some reasonable level of fitness, there's gonna be some nervous teams above us.

"easily have won, ultra dodgy umpiring, 4 games in 18 days, injuries ...."

Hi Brett, what you going to do next season after you lose your job?

FWIW, the umpiring was far from ultra dodgy, for every debateable holding the ball decision there was the 2 or 3 times that NN was being held by the jumper and the arm when one out in the goal square only to have it called play on. The mob mentality regarding WC games and umpiring is now almost funny.

You were clearly outplayed by a superior side for the majority of the game. Multiple missed easy goals and a couple of junk time replies flattered you. If you want to talk yourself into being better than you were, then feel free but one suspects we'll get as much from our outs on Thursday as you will from yours (Kennedy, LeCras, Waters, Nicoski, Embley etc) ...

Was also nice for Kruezer to get a look at a genuinely athletic ruckman

 

[Monkey King]

Turned out ok in 2010. They're pretty hard to win, and we're not without a chance this year.

Yes, they're harder to win than most Collingwood supporters were acknowledging last year, but given you see this now, I'm not sure why have you expected me at round 3 to have locked in any certain outcome for my team, or to now not be able to honestly assess the OP's question. I mean, I know you were trolling, I just wanted to make it transparently so.

 

[Ceebee]

One can only hope it is.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

No it's not over.

There still is a long way to go and so much can change in that period. Have got most of there important players back (bar Murphy). I expect an improvement.

 

[Monkey King]

"easily have won, ultra dodgy umpiring, 4 games in 18 days, injuries ...."

Yes. These are the facts. If I'm to assess Carlton's chances for the rest of the year then not considering the facts would be pretty stupid. Given the situation, I don't think a grim season is the lock some posters suggest it to be at this point, but it does rely on a few things changing.

FWIW, the umpiring was far from ultra dodgy ...

The only one's singing that tune are Eagles fans. Everyone else it seems has two eyes.

 

[Axle17]

Their season was over earlier then this..

Not able to cover the injuries.

No depth.

Fringe players being touted as genuine A graders, are now being found out.

To top it all off, I doubt anyone beleived in the "Carlton Hype" to begin with.

Edit: West Coast played a bad game, more then Carlton actually losing it. Margin should have easily been 30+

 

[borrat]

it never started to begin with

i honestly lol'd at all the so called experts and people on here mention carlton and premierhips in the same sentence tank you all very much

carlton where never ANY chance of winning this years flag or for a long time rely WAY to much on judd and there tanking picks without them they are nothing at all

 

[MagpieMilitia]

Their season was over earlier then this..

Not able to cover the injuries.

No depth.

Fringe players being touted as genuine A graders, are now being found out.

To top it all off, I doubt anyone beleived in the "Carlton Hype" to begin with.

Edit: West Coast played a bad game, more then Carlton actually losing it. Margin should have easily been 30+

Sadly, I believe Carlton have peaked. Best football is behind Judd and Waite, their second tier midfielders are battlers and Gibbs is a bust.

Full rebuild required end of next season.

 

[QS]

The only one's singing that tune are Eagles fans. Everyone else it seems has two eyes.

Denial is not a river in Egypt.

 

[Fadge]

Yes, they're harder to win than most Collingwood supporters were acknowledging last year, but given you see this now, I'm not sure why have you expected me at round 3 to have locked in any certain outcome for my team, or to now not be able to honestly assess the OP's question. I mean, I know you were trolling, I just wanted to make it transparently so.

The cockiness of the Carlton supporters I know after round three was unbelievable. I guess it was understandable given they had just had their greatest victory in over ten years. If they weren't hoisting the 2012 Premiership flag at that stage they were certainly brimming with confidence and had absolutely discounted Collingwood as a factor in 2012.

8 weeks is a long time in football. Notice how the proven performers are coming to the fore.