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Society/Culture Is Comedy Dead?

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The Cryptkeeper said:
You actually have no idea what you are talking about. Sadowitz got cancelled by ignorant virtue signallers who have no idea how his shows are put together. And if you haven't seen him (and I know by your comments that you haven't) the you are really so far out of your depth in this discussion as to be an irrelevance. It's a massive story in comedy circles and almost everybody is on his side. Not one comedian has spoken up in defence of the decision.

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk

Jack Dee warns cancellation of comic Jerry Sadowitz was a watershed moment

The deadpan comic said that a debate should be held on stand-up following the controversy around Sadowitz
www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk

unherd.com

Jerry Sadowitz is too good to cancel

He may be a monster, but at least he's talented
unherd.com unherd.com

www.beyondthejoke.co.uk

Opinion: Jerry Sadowitz And Being Cancelled

The first time I saw Jerry Sadowitz was over thirty years ago. It was in The Rub-A-Dub Club in Sydenham at a gig hosted by an impossibly young Vic Reeves. Sadowitz came on and told the following joke: "How do you get six p**** into a Datsun?" "I don't know but they manage it don't they". I might...
www.beyondthejoke.co.uk www.beyondthejoke.co.uk

www.theguardian.com

Who went too far: Jerry Sadowitz or those who cancelled his Edinburgh fringe show? | Brian Logan

Questions of free speech offer no simple answers, but it’s clear that this is a watershed moment in comedy, says Guardian comedy critic Brian Logan
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

And it is not my opinion that he is an all time great standup. He is an all time great standup. If you knew anything about comedy at all, you'd know that. Some of the greatest modern day comics literally moulded themselves on his act (Gervais, Boyle, etc) and great comedians everywhere hold the guy up as an icon.

Profile: Jerry Sadowitz, comedian

ARGUABLY Scotland's greatest comedian, and undoubtedly the most underrated, Jerry Sadowitz remains a cult, enigmatic figure. A misanthropic monster on stage, appalling, obscene, ferocious, he holds nothing back – not his ugliest thoughts, nor his oft-exposed penis – yet he reveals little of...
www.scotsman.com www.scotsman.com

But you haven't seen him so you wouldn't know. You just read the trigger words on line and formed an ignorant opinion.
Click to expand...
The only one getting triggered here is you, mate. Have a Bex and a lie down or just ease off on the insults. His show got canned by a single venue but he hasn't been 'cancelled', it's a media buzzword that offers a surface level analysis of deeper issues. Like woke, which you also invoked earlier. A quick google search will reveal he's on stage this Wednesday night and again through December. He's about as cancelled as Dave Chappelle and JK Rowling.

I'm familiar with Sadowitz and his influence. I've been around the comedy scene here in Oz and in London, your assumptions about me don't mean much. But Sadowitz has always appealed to a niche audience. If he's still good enough, he'll continue to get gigs, if he isn't, he won't. That's how comedy works.
 

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JackOutback said:
The only one getting triggered here is you, mate. Have a Bex and a lie down or just ease off on the insults. His show got canned by a single venue but he hasn't been 'cancelled', it's a media buzzword that offers a surface level analysis of deeper issues. Like woke, which you also invoked earlier. A quick google search will reveal he's on stage this Wednesday night and again through December. He's about as cancelled as Dave Chappelle and JK Rowling.

I'm familiar with Sadowitz and his influence. I've been around the comedy scene here in Oz and in London, your assumptions about me don't mean much. But Sadowitz has always appealed to a niche audience. If he's still good enough, he'll continue to get gigs, if he isn't, he won't. That's how comedy works.
Click to expand...

Again you are incorrect.

He has been cancelled by more than one venue. The first of which was the Pleasance, the second of two shows which was sold out. This was cancelled after the first show which was well received. There was a complaint from a young (and yes woke) employee who has no context of what Sadowitz even does yet played the "I'm offended" card. Important to note here, the Pleasance has been booking Sadowitz for years (that's where I first saw him) so they cannot plead ignorance to the content. Nor can they blame lack of ticket sales. You make some nonsense comment about getting gigs and staying relevant. You even claim to know all about Sadowitz. Yet you seemingly don't know that his shows always sell out. Literally, always. So he is relevant and people want to see him.

The second venue to cancel Sadowitz was in Margate, entirely because of the fallout from the Fringe cancellation.

Another venue cancels Jerry Sadowitz : News 2022 : Chortle : The UK Comedy Guide

Another venue cancels Jerry Sadowitz - Fallout from Edinburgh Fringe row
www.chortle.co.uk www.chortle.co.uk

That is the very definition of "cancel culture" and it amazes me that you are trying to downplay this.

Interestingly, and no doubt enraging to the delicate flowers out there is the fact that the end result from some prissy nonce running to mummy because he heard a naughty word and saw a penis is that Sadowitz then went on to sell out the Hammersmith Apollo, London's premier venue.

Censorship has no place in comedy.

So, get your facts straight before engaging your keyboard.

And by the way, I am not triggered. I just can't stand people who are willfully ignorant.
 
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The Cryptkeeper said:
That is the very definition of "cancel culture"
Click to expand...
The Cryptkeeper said:
Sadowitz then went on to sell out the Hammersmith Apollo, London's premier venue.
Click to expand...
So just to clarify, Sadowitz's career has not been cancelled and continues?

And to be clear, a 'woke', nonce', delicate flower' or whatever other pejorative you choose to use didn't can Sadowitz's show, the Pleasance did. The owners understand comedy, have been hosting it for years, and have agency to make their own decisions. They absolutely could have backed him in if they felt comfortable with it. Are you saying they should be forced to stage shows, even if they don't want to? Should anyone be able to force a venue to host them in the name of free speech?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sadowitz enjoyed the 'cancellation'. It's given him publicity he hasn't enjoyed in ages and as you so clearly pointed out, gave his career a boost. You do unfortunately see it a lot these days, comedians invoking 'cancel culture' in a transparent manner for personal gain, it felt like Ricky Gervais prefaced every joke in his last set with 'this will get me cancelled' unironically, despite being featured in a Netflix special. Jimmy Carr also did it a bit but his comedy is still largely funny, so he gets away with it.

I haven't seen Sadowitz's latest material, so can't judge if he falls into the same boat. But comedy, like music, isn't necessarily a career that is meant to last forever. The primary audience is mainly younger, society moves on and some older comedians become dated, their material just not having the same cut-through that it always did. John Cleese is a case in point. He thinks he deserves continued TV shows purely because he created the amazing Monty Python and despite the fact he hasn't done anything substantial in years. And when he doesn't get it, he blames 'woke' audiences instead of the simple fact that mainstream comedy may have passed him by and he's a niche performer now.

If your argument includes media clickbait buzzwords like cancel culture, virtue signallers, woke etc, you don't have an argument. The issue isn't that simple.
 
JackOutback said:
So just to clarify, Sadowitz's career has not been cancelled and continues?

And to be clear, a 'woke', nonce', delicate flower' or whatever other pejorative you choose to use didn't can Sadowitz's show, the Pleasance did. The owners understand comedy, have been hosting it for years, and have agency to make their own decisions. They absolutely could have backed him in if they felt comfortable with it. Are you saying they should be forced to stage shows, even if they don't want to? Should anyone be able to force a venue to host them in the name of free speech?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sadowitz enjoyed the 'cancellation'. It's given him publicity he hasn't enjoyed in ages and as you so clearly pointed out, gave his career a boost. You do unfortunately see it a lot these days, comedians invoking 'cancel culture' in a transparent manner for personal gain, it felt like Ricky Gervais prefaced every joke in his last set with 'this will get me cancelled' unironically, despite being featured in a Netflix special. Jimmy Carr also did it a bit but his comedy is still largely funny, so he gets away with it.

I haven't seen Sadowitz's latest material, so can't judge if he falls into the same boat. But comedy, like music, isn't necessarily a career that is meant to last forever. The primary audience is mainly younger, society moves on and some older comedians become dated, their material just not having the same cut-through that it always did. John Cleese is a case in point. He thinks he deserves continued TV shows purely because he created the amazing Monty Python and despite the fact he hasn't done anything substantial in years. And when he doesn't get it, he blames 'woke' audiences instead of the simple fact that mainstream comedy may have passed him by and he's a niche performer now.

If your argument includes media clickbait buzzwords like cancel culture, virtue signallers, woke etc, you don't have an argument. The issue isn't that simple.
Click to expand...
yes you did
 
JackOutback said:
So just to clarify, Sadowitz's career has not been cancelled and continues?

And to be clear, a 'woke', nonce', delicate flower' or whatever other pejorative you choose to use didn't can Sadowitz's show, the Pleasance did. The owners understand comedy, have been hosting it for years, and have agency to make their own decisions. They absolutely could have backed him in if they felt comfortable with it. Are you saying they should be forced to stage shows, even if they don't want to? Should anyone be able to force a venue to host them in the name of free speech?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sadowitz enjoyed the 'cancellation'. It's given him publicity he hasn't enjoyed in ages and as you so clearly pointed out, gave his career a boost. You do unfortunately see it a lot these days, comedians invoking 'cancel culture' in a transparent manner for personal gain, it felt like Ricky Gervais prefaced every joke in his last set with 'this will get me cancelled' unironically, despite being featured in a Netflix special. Jimmy Carr also did it a bit but his comedy is still largely funny, so he gets away with it.

I haven't seen Sadowitz's latest material, so can't judge if he falls into the same boat. But comedy, like music, isn't necessarily a career that is meant to last forever. The primary audience is mainly younger, society moves on and some older comedians become dated, their material just not having the same cut-through that it always did. John Cleese is a case in point. He thinks he deserves continued TV shows purely because he created the amazing Monty Python and despite the fact he hasn't done anything substantial in years. And when he doesn't get it, he blames 'woke' audiences instead of the simple fact that mainstream comedy may have passed him by and he's a niche performer now.

If your argument includes media clickbait buzzwords like cancel culture, virtue signallers, woke etc, you don't have an argument. The issue isn't that simple.
Click to expand...

Re: the bolded I suggest you actually familiarise yourself with what happened before making silly statements like this. I will go through this again making it as simple as possible for you.

1) The Pleasance has been booking Sadowitz for years and has profited greatly from his sold out shows. Sadowitz's schtick is not a surprise to them. They are fully aware of his comedic content and booked him anyway. Hell, Sadowitz makes it very clear that his content is not for everyone. I'd also suggest that the hint might be in the name of the show "Not For Anyone."

2) The Pleasance cancelled the second show because of a complaint from a staff member (and allegedly because some people walked out) who was offended by some of the content. Again, refer to point one...the Pleasance knew what they were booking. Sadowitz doesn't even try to hide it. Again, they knew 100% what they were getting.

3) Another venue then subsequently cancelled Sadowitz show, depriving him of income. Both venues also cost sold out audiences time, inconvenience and in many cases transportation and accommodation costs. They showed no consideration to the public. The fact that the Hammersmith Apollo
stepped in and booked him is a moot point. At the time this had not happened and whilst it is a short term win for Sadowitz in the longer term the impact is more likely to be that venues that otherwise would have booked him will think twice. It is important to note here that Sadowitz has committed no crime (I know it might be a shock to you but Sadowitz getting his dick out on stage is not a crime and he isn't the first or only comic to do it), nor has he done anything off stage that is even remotely questionable. This is not a Louis CK type situation where he has been outed for grubby behaviour. He's been outed because censorship is starting to creep into comedy, a place where it has no right to be.

4) Anthony Alderson, artistic director at the Pleasance, said: “The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians’ material.
"While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented is not acceptable and does not align with our values. This type of material has no place on the festival.”

5) You clearly have no understanding of the comic or his material. To suggest that Sadowitz "enjoyed" the cancellation shows how very little you know about the guy. He performs infrequently and does not seek notoriety. This is not the first time that he has been cancelled/censored because somebody was offended by his material. He lost two decades of his career after outing Jimmy Savile. Yes, he dared to out a paedophile and it cost him his career. The BBC then cancelled him after he came back and now we have this. I also chuckled when you said that you "haven't seen Sadowitz's latest material" so can't comment. You haven't seen any of Sadowitz's material so really shouldn't comment.

6) Almost nobody has defended the Pleasance on this and almost everybody has defended Sadowitz. Except it seems you, with absolutely no understanding of the situation at all.

So, in summary:

You - defending censorship but have no idea what you are defending because you have no reference point as to the comedian in question.
The Pleasance - we don't censor comedians...until we do.

I am not sure which position I find more embarrassing. Probably the Pleasance' but you are gaining ground quickly.
 
Last edited:
The Cryptkeeper said:
Re: the bolded I suggest you actually familiarise yourself with what happened before making silly statements like this. I will go through this again making it as simple as possible for you.

1) The Pleasance has been booking Sadowitz for years and has profited greatly from his sold out shows. Sadowitz's schtick is not a surprise to them. They are fully aware of his comedic content and booked him anyway. Hell, Sadowitz makes it very clear that his content is not for everyone. I'd also suggest that the hint might be in the name of the show "Not For Anyone."

2) The Pleasance cancelled the second show because of a complaint from a staff member (and allegedly because some people walked out) who was offended by some of the content. Again, refer to point one...the Pleasance knew what they were booking. Sadowitz doesn't even try to hide it. Again, they knew 100% what they were getting.

3) Another venue then subsequently cancelled Sadowitz show, depriving him of income. Both venues also cost sold out audiences time, inconvenience and in many cases transportation and accommodation costs. They showed no consideration to the public. The fact that the Hammersmith Apollo
stepped in and booked him is a moot point. At the time this had not happened and whilst it is a short term win for Sadowitz in the longer term the impact is more likely to be that venues that otherwise would have booked him will think twice. It is important to note here that Sadowitz has committed no crime (I know it might be a shock to you but Sadowitz getting his dick out on stage is not a crime and he isn't the first or only comic to do it), nor has he done anything off stage that is even remotely questionable. This is not a Louis CK type situation where he has been outed for grubby behaviour. He's been outed because censorship is starting to creep into comedy, a place where it has no right to be.

4) Anthony Alderson, artistic director at the Pleasance, said: “The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians’ material.
"While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented is not acceptable and does not align with our values. This type of material has no place on the festival.”

5) You clearly have no understanding of the comic or his material. To suggest that Sadowitz "enjoyed" the cancellation shows how very little you know about the guy. He performs infrequently and does not seek notoriety. This is not the first time that he has been cancelled/censored because somebody was offended by his material. He lost two decades of his career after outing Jimmy Savile. Yes, he dared to out a paedophile and it cost him his career. The BBC then cancelled him after he came back and now we have this. I also chuckled when you said that you "haven't seen Sadowitz's latest material" so can't comment. You haven't seen any of Sadowitz's material so really shouldn't comment.

6) Almost nobody has defended the Pleasance on this and almost everybody has defended Sadowitz. Except it seems you, with absolutely no understanding of the situation at all.

So, in summary:

You - defending censorship but have no idea what you are defending because you have no reference point as to the comedian in question.
The Pleasance - we don't censor comedians...until we do.

I am not sure which position I find more embarrassing. Probably the Pleasance' but you are gaining ground quickly.
Click to expand...
You seem unwilling or unable to accept the fact the perhaps Sadowitz's material just isn't funny anymore. Yes, The Plesance booked him previously and yes, The Pleasance know what kind of comedian he is. But if they no longer find the entertainment value is worth the shock value, then they are within their rights to say enough. FFS, it's not censorship, it's market forces, another thing that people who bleat about cancel culture seem unwilling or unable to understand. Sadowitz is free to continue his act at any number of venues, including the Apollo, as you so helpfully pointed out.

And I think I'll leave it there.
 
JackOutback said:
You seem unwilling or unable to accept the fact the perhaps Sadowitz's material just isn't funny anymore. Yes, The Plesance booked him previously and yes, The Pleasance know what kind of comedian he is. But if they no longer find the entertainment value is worth the shock value, then they are within their rights to say enough. FFS, it's not censorship, it's market forces, another thing that people who bleat about cancel culture seem unwilling or unable to understand. Sadowitz is free to continue his act at any number of venues, including the Apollo, as you so helpfully pointed out.

And I think I'll leave it there.
Click to expand...

Sold out crowds find it funny. Critics find it funny. Other world class comedians find it funny. The easily offended don't.

And you personally have no idea whether it's funny or not. All of which is irrelevant anyway.

Not censorship but market forces? IT WAS A SOLD OUT SHOW. By extension, this has nothing to do with market forces. The demand is clearly there. Sadowitz was cancelled (yes, cancelled...ergo, stopped from performing) by an overly-precious venue manager who completely overreacted.

Censorship is the suppression or changing of somebody's speech. What happened to Sadowitz is also the absolute definition of the word. For clarity, so we all know, do you support censorship?
 
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Scallop Industry Thug said:
And Carl Barron is funny. I don’t care what anyone else thinks.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
Haven't seen any recent specials, but he went alright back in the day.

Paramount Plus is a treasure trove of Aussie comedy specials, knocked out two Luke Heggie specials and Damien Power over the weekend, as well as the new Trevor Noah special on Netflix. Gonna be doing a deep dive for much of this week, methinks.
 
Scotland said:
I have no issue with Hannah Gadsby (she's OK in small doses, not my cup of tea for a full stand up gig but either are plenty of straight white male comedians) and this general approach. Don't like don't watch etc. I have seen Nikki Glaser's panel show on Comedy Central and it's OK so I watched her recent special on Netflix. An hour of the same material over and over, pass. Made Jim Jefferies look like he has a bow full of different strings by comparison. But (excepting this post) I'm not going to talk s**t about it on the internet.

Slight tangent but what is mildly annoying is media outlets and critics trying to tell you what to like, tell you what is and isn't funny, tell you what is and isn't acceptable etc.

For example:

Hannah Gadsby: Nanette has 100% rating from critics on Rotten Tomatoes and 22% from audiences.
Dave Chappelle: Sticks and Stones has 35% and 99%.
Amy Schumer: Growing has 79% and 4%. That's not a typo, 4%.
Ricky Gervais: Humanity has 43% and 88%.
Nikki Glaser: Bangin' doesn't have a critic rating yet but has a 42% audience score. If I was a betting man I would say the critics will give it 80%+.

There's a disconnect between what people like and what others want people to like. As Ben Affleck said 'the internet is a communication tool used the world over where people can come together to bitch about movies'. You could write the most glowing review of Game of Thrones S8 finale as a cinematic masterpiece but everyone knows it was trash, and 200,000 people rating it 4.2/10 on IMDB confirms as much.

The whole idea of a movie/music/food/whatever critic is they give an informed opinion and you use that (or don't) when making your own decision on what to see, listen to, eat etc. If that flog in the paper gave a restaurant 5 stars and 1,000 people on Google all went and said it was trash would you go there? Of course not. Film and media critics are right on that path. Shitting on Dave Chappelle and Ricky Gervais and pumping up Amy Schumer and Hannah Gadsby won't convince the masses.
Click to expand...

Those percentages are incredible
 

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Marcel Proust said:
Does Chappelle choose the SNL people?

He's already said he's comfortable being a very rich person. I don't see how he's a sell out
Click to expand...
It wasn't SNL, it was a Chapelle performance.

And Chapelle being rich isn't the problem, it's cosying up with some increasingly unhinged people. Chapelle's anti-trans bent has found him placed uncomfortably alongside some ultra conservative people who, outside of that one issue, probably don't share many beliefs. There comes a time when you look at the people alongside you and wonder if you are on the wrong side of the issue. Trans people would be more likely to fight for black rights as a marginalised group, Elon Musk wouldn't.
 

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