Is Dan24's finals system right or wrong? VOTE NOW!

[Dan26]

Fair enough Joel. But I never said we should have no finals. Ever.

I've noticed one thing about "people". They are like sheep. They just do what they are told. I'm not talking about sepecific individuals here, but the community generally. People get so set in their ways, that they can't accept change.

But once the change is "thrust" upon them (eg the GST or the national comp, when it began in 1987) they think : "Hey, what was the big deal ? This ain't so bad after all"

It's about the AFL having the guts to make the right decision with this. They should stop beating around the bush and show some balls.

 

[servo]

Ok I said before that I would not discuss this issue again in the hope it would go away.

'so now i am whispering'

because we will never see a 30 game season plus finals then dan24's concept can never see the light of day. aussie tradition dictates that we have finals where the underdog can win if they are the best on that one day so finals will always stay.

should 2 teams disappear then we could have a 26 game season plus knockout finals. for that i would vote yes. but as the competition stands i must vote no.

we can never go to the english system of league and fa cups because that would require midweek games early in the season to accomodate the wannabes. aussie rules cannot be played that way. it is too physical for players to play 2 or even 3 games a week like socccer players can.

No.

 

[Dan26]

Servo,

Why can't the underdog just win an "upset" finals match under my system ? The underdog can still get up.

I think in 1979 (I may be wrong), Sunderland won the FA CUP. They were a second division side, and they won the whole thing. Someone might want to correct me on that. That's what finals are for. So that the underdog, can win a knockout match, and knock off the better team. That's why we love finals, because they are unpredictable.

So your precious Adelaide would still be "Grand Final champions" in 1998. They just wouldn't be H&A premiers that's all.

 

[coxon]

voting yesssss.....

 

[The Dutchman!]

Apologies Dan, despite all your passion for the game (and the stats) which I have a lot of time & respect for, if a team is good enough it wins when it counts... if it doesn't then thats just the way it goes.

H&A is important but finals are more important.

However, I think we should go back to a final 5 format - not fiscally friendly but very fair. In all other formats the double chance IS a crock.

So broadly....No

 

[The Dutchman!]

Happy Birthday BTW

 

[sainter]

No!

 

[dons_r_tops]

Yes, But no, So NO

 

[Dan26]

I don't turn 25 until December actually. Someone stle my "prospective" Dan25 handle and registered it. *grrrrrr*

I suppose right NOW finals are more important, because that's the way the AFL does it.

That's not the point.

Essendon have proven in 2000 that we are the most adept team at being able to consistently win games. Like ManU. Over the course of 6 months, anything that the football world throws at you, we have thrown back and responded, and succeeded.

However, as history showed agaisnt the Dogs in Rd 21, upsets happen. They can happen in a final, or a H&A match.

If an upset does happen this week, and the Dons are not rewarded (which they won't be), for their great seaosn, then that is the biggest travesty of justice in the game.

Do Manchester United deserve NOTHING if they lose an FA CUP semi-final, but finish on top of the ladder ?

Of course not. They deserve heaps of plaudits. Which they would rightfully get.

Look Dutchy, we've gone down this road before, but the team that wins the GF deserves heaps of praise. Good on them.

But that prasie should NOT carry over to the Home and away season, in which they may have finished 6th (for example)

It's so frustrating that everything up until now has meant nothing. What a waste of 95 %of the season. What a waste. Is that good for the game ? Surely not.

Why should a team that plays well for 3 weeks get more plaudits that a team who has proven, over 6 months that they can win more games that any one else ? And that they are more adept at winning matches, consistently, that any other team.

If the mighty Bombers win the GF, we should ONLY be acknowledged as Finals series champs. We also win the H&A, so we did the "double". This is not how it "IS", but how it "SHOULD" be. We should acknowledge BOTH, not JUST the Grand Final winner.

Saturdays prelim will nort prove how good a team we are. We've proven that over 23 matches this year. If you do think that that match proves how good we are, then you are stating that upsets are INCAPABLE of happening in finals. Obviously you must think the GF winner is always beter than the vanquished. This is not the case.

I'm not denying how it is at the moment, so please don't say :"but finals are more important right now"

You live in England. You should know all this, really.

 

[Daniel]

I totally agree with BA. I didn’t really want to see it changed, but if we had Dan’s system and someone came along and proposed the system we have now, I would argue more against that proposal than I have argued against Dan’s.

I will continue to have grave concerns until the home and away draw is fair (we all know your reasoning on why the finals draw is more unfair, so don't bother responding on that one), but in theory Dan24 is right.

After reading all that Dan24 has written - skipping all the constantly repeated parts for the sake of sanity, of course (everyone understood the frigging FA Cup analogy the first time you mentioned it) - and all the counter arguments, as well as thinking about it thoroughly for myself, I came to the conclusion that I endorse the change.

Yes.

 

[ArdenSt]

Sorry Dan24, but no.

 

[Grendel]

Dan, stop campaigning in my thread

I could nearly discount your vote here! You did say yes twice! (or is that another Essendon bending the rules type thing?)

Seriously thanks all for the very reasoned responses so far. Its been very well argued by both the for's and against's. Perhaps its the democrats amongst us so far in that while it seems the NO's are leading SO FAR (keep them votes coming folks) many would still like to take certain 'policys' of Dans into their own 'political partys' platform.

Dan even if you get rolled i think you will still be a winner in many ways, i hope you like the thread

Cheers Grendel.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Dan24

That very famous FA Cup Final you referred was the 1973 tie. 2nd Division Sunderland scored a thrilling and brave 1-0 victory over Leeds United, who, if you know your English Soccer history were THE unbeatable power team of the early 70's

 

[Shinboners]

BSA

Leeds may have been unbeatable, but they still had a habit of running second and (hilariously) falling foul of bad referring. There was that "off-side" goal by a West Bromwich Albion (?) player that cost Leeds the championship and a bribed referee that cost Leeds a place in the European Cup Final as well. Don't spill too many tears for Leeds though....their manager Don Revie tried to bribe an opposition team in an effort to guarantee a Leeds championship.

As Brian Clough told the Leeds players when he took over managing Leeds (for something like 44 days!), "Throw all your medals in the bin because you cheated to win them".

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by Grendel:
I could nearly discount your vote here! You did say yes twice! (or is that another Essendon bending the rules type thing?)

JUST DO IT. HEADLINES Read "Dan gets no vote"

 

[Shinboners]

Grendel

Voting twice didn't stop someone from taking their place on the Melbourne City Council. The counciller concerned said, "It was an honest accident". Quite amazing considering that most of us find it a pain in the arse to vote even once, but anyway, on that precedent, cut Dan24 some slack!

 

[Ardent]

No. Thanks

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Thanks Shinboner

I never knew what a bunch of rotters and scumbags Leeds really were in those days.

I was way too young in those days to remember anything clearly but one thing I do remember quite clearly was the European Champions Cup final of 1975. Leeds were shithouse in going down to Bayern Munich (I think) 2-0 at Park dePrinces in Paris (a very famous stadium for soccer and Rugby)

The Leeds fans showed their displeasure by ripping up the seating and throwing the debris onto the pitch. Then riot police moved with tear gas and ... well you can guess the rest of the story.

It was the first time in my life I had witnessed football hooliganism and it was quite a shock ...

 

[Hawkforce]

Despite the constant drilling pain between the temples that reading Dan's repetitive arguments gives me, I noticed his use of the English Premier League as an example -

Dan, the biggest prize in English football is the Champion's League. It is the ultimate in footballing achievement.

How is the tournament played? A series of home and away fixtures before a one-off "Grandfinal".

Perhaps you'd like to give UEFA a call and explain the injustice of their system.

Your baby is essentially correct, but the bathwater stinks. Therefore the answer is NO.

Keep bleating about it by all means, but at least have the decency to keep it out of other people's threads.

 

[Pessimistic]

Ah, Brian Clough, the best coach England never had

Don Revie, Makaes Hansie Cronje look like a choirboy

THE GST ? Hasn't affected mew much yet but then I have'nt Bought a Holiday, Paid for a Tradesman, Bought renovations, hired a a Lawyer so I'll get back to you

And what exactly are we voting on ? Perhaps Dan could Get John howard to define the question and He'd get anything through

More recognition for H&A premiers ? yes if they are well in front but no if they get there with percentage, a soft draw and dodgy decisions.

Finals systems have to work in all years when all sorts od results can happen. Someone denigrated Hawthorn at 8th but if you look at the draw and try to equalise it the both Hawks and Bulldogs in 8 and 6 performed as least as well as North and Melbourne and Kangaroos at 3 and 4. The nature of the final proves it (Both Kangas and Hawks had players carrying injuries)

H&A Premiership equal or better than present Premier NO NO NO

How would you do comparisons through history ?

 

[Bloody Longjohn]

No Dan.

Hope Essendon get the crap kicked out of them this weekend.

 

[sandie]

Bloody Longjohn, if I was you I would be more worried about the Roos getting the crap kicked out of them by the Dees.
GO DEES

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Mantis

 

[Dave]

Sorry Dan, but NO!

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by sandie:
Bloody Longjohn, if I was you I would be more worried about the Roos getting the crap kicked out of them by the Dees.
GO DEES

Sandie, I don't agree with Longjohn, but I also don't think I would be barracking for a team that my beat mine in a grand final in a week and a bit, but then you think it is okay to get caught cheating.

 

[sandie]

Rooboy, dragging out the you cheated 7 years ago again, surely you can come up with something a bit more original & recent.
Longjohn is supporting a team that you could be playing in a week & a half, or did you over look that fact because he's a Roos supporter.

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Mantis