Play Nice Is Gil really this much of a fool? Jobe's Brownlow and the commission's "hard" decision.

[B4Bear]

Another poorly handle situation by the AFL. He should have been stripped of the medal the moment he was found guilty and suspended. Instead the AFL squibed it because they are too gutless to do the right thing.

Now Watson still has this hanging over his head, and loses either way; publically shamed years after the fact when he is stripped of the medal, or held in contempt for retaining what most think is an unearned reward.

Well done AFL, well done.

 

[jatz14]

As does sport supplements, yes , no?
And never forget , this kind of thing, injection regimes I mean , was not just the Essendon FC , no one really says any more or says , but I have read of at least three clubs , with supplement programs that involved injections, let alone the debate on pain killer injections, that let you run back out, when you have damaged a part of your body , and more than likely damage it some more, where is the OH&S in those situations, well it is no where to be seen.

If you've been lucky enough to know or to meet former footballers, you may find a few who in older age suffer a great deal from injuries and some of those, who covered them up with pain killing injections are not too well.
I would not want my sons or daughters filled up, to mask the pain and injure themselves further.

So hypocrisy reigns in all this , when taking pain killers you are not taking a sport supplement brother , you are taking a drug!
Lets figure that one out too ASADA!!!!!!??????
Or maybe we should all shut up before our other clubs get caught out hey???

Supplements and painkillers both do the same thing, they enable you to reach your natural performance level. Like exercise does, are you against exercise as well, it is definitely performance enhancing.

An illegal Sports drug is illegal because it lets you operate ABOVE your natural performance level.

See the difference. Good diet, rest, exercise, supplements for nutrition, good medical care for any injuries = peak performance. If that isn't enough for Hird, that's where Dank comes in.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[SydCrow]

just take it off him already FFS

 

[Gavin Excell]

just take it off him already FFS

No. Due process must take its course. Its a really tough decision and Gill may consider postponing a decision to ponder further

 

[rdhopkins2]

If the AFL decide to strip Jobe, it looks like they are going to declare it a "No winner" year.

If a player can be suspended and be ruled ineligible (ie Chris Grant) and the medal be awarded to the the best and most fairest of that year, why can't Jobe's be the same? Laughable really.

 

[Rance2Mewtwo]

If the AFL decide to strip Jobe, it looks like they are going to declare it a "No winner" year.

If a player can be suspended and be ruled ineligible (ie Chris Grant) and the medal be awarded to the the best and most fairest of that year, why can't Jobe's be the same? Laughable really.

That level of corruption is unacceptable.

Supporters have begrudgingly sat through the endless pro-Jobe propaganda but believe me, if he's stripped the Tiger Army will be making a lot of noise until Cotchin gets the medal he deserves.

There is no logical reason not to hand the medals to Cotchin & Mitchell.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Because ignorance is not an excuse. do you think "oh I'm sorry I didn't realise that breaking into that house is against the law" should be an acceptable excuse?

No?

Then why would you give a pass to "oh I'm sorry I didn't realise those drugs I was taking are against the rules"?



Yes, again I understand your thinking.

If I'm driving, and I am texting my supermodel girlfriend all the things I'm gonna do to her when I get home, and while I'm doing this I cross the road and kill a family of five coming the other way, then you would say I'm innocent.

Because 1. I honestly didn't know that texting while driving was against the law, and therefore it should not apply to me, and 2. I honestly didn't realise my negligance was going to cause that accident.

Any punishment given to me would be unfair.

Just read your texting comments again, really I am not saying that at all, they are totally different things you have used as examples, players KNEW they were taking injections, they thought they were legal and sport supplements, my point is if you believe you are doing a good thing and your not , how are you guilty of performing an illegal act if you don't know anything about what it is your taking and when your told its fine , and you follow the lead, see the admin needed to get kicked not those players, that is nothing like running over a family if your texting, THAT ANY FOOL KNOWS IS STUPID DANGEROUS AND AGAINST THE LAW.But if you follow the fact that a young player joins into something he has dreamed of all his life and may become a successful and wealthy person handled properly, by making it in the AFL.
Well they might just believe what the trainer or the coach or the bloody chemist tells them. So lets forget all the bullshit words we all come out with, me yes I blabber on, but , 34 blokes have stated they were innocent of having knowledge , and they still got banned for lack of Knowledge, after being informed the injection was legal, I don't believe that any of them knew, they just went along , and no one will ever prove otherwise, a small law set up by a sporting adjudicator , has them all banned.
Even if one thought he was on drugs and the other 33 didn't is the doubt. So yes, lets say they were all as guilty as hell, does that mean that being genuinely misinformed takes you out of your sport for a year? For being misinformed, well if like a lot of you say they were drug cheats and that is proven which it wasn't then they should by rights be banned for life! if not knowing gets you a year, double parking might get you hanged.
Thats the point , is all , I don't give a f*** if EFC were disbanded , ITS NOT MY CLUB, BUT IN SPORT , THE AFL MAKES AND CHANGES SO MANY RULES ON THE GROUND, NO BODY KNOWS WHATS RIGHT OT WRONG , OFFICIALLY!Even the umpires . I have to stop this is sending me crazy, I know all the points you BF people make , all make sense too, but can't you once see through to the point that maybe just maybe injustice happened to 34 people, 34 of them. Or maybe only ONE! The number doesn't matter.
Promise I'm off this now , thanks for the debate!

 

[JoondalupJ]

They signed contracts AGREEING to this condition.

To have it any other way would be to open the door to cheats.

Imagine... East German coach says to swimmer, "take this vitamin pill, it is completely legal (wink wink)". Swimmer has no clue they took PED. Completely innocent. Yep.

Find the doco about the real truth on eastern block athletes and coaches, and you will see what I've said has some merit. Wink wink nothing!
To the terrible detriment of those Athletes health, and many knew nothing until the HORROR of the USE started showing up in their bodies, during competition and years after. You have no idea, but I guess even though their coaches were bleeding criminals, in their behaviour and stood over the athletes totally,and government sanctioned btw, the athlete would still have got massacred by law and the world for what happened. Yes the Athlete !

EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T KNOW INITIALLY WHAT THEY WERE TAKING!!!!!!! THATS IT.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

Find the doco about the real truth on eastern block athletes and coaches, and you will see what I've said has some merit. Wink wink nothing!
To the terrible detriment of those Athletes health, and many knew nothing until the HORROR of the USE started showing up in their bodies, during competition and years after. You have no idea, but I guess even though their coaches were bleeding criminals, in their behaviour and stood over the athletes totally,and government sanctioned btw, the athlete would still have got massacred by law and the world for what happened. Yes the Athlete !

EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T KNOW INITIALLY WHAT THEY WERE TAKING!!!!!!! THATS IT.

I'd hate to be an Australian athlete who was put in the same position in the 201x's, not knowing if that concrete and horse propellent that was injected into my arse was likely to cause long term health problems like those people you mentioned have suffered.

At least in modern Australia, that has about as much chance of happening as trump becoming president of the good old us&a.

 

[imperial_oz]

Just read your texting comments again, really I am not saying that at all, they are totally different things you have used as examples, players KNEW they were taking injections, they thought they were legal and sport supplements, my point is if you believe you are doing a good thing and your not , how are you guilty of performing an illegal act if you don't know anything about what it is your taking and when your told its fine , and you follow the lead, see the admin needed to get kicked not those players, that is nothing like running over a family if your texting, THAT ANY FOOL KNOWS IS STUPID DANGEROUS AND AGAINST THE LAW.But if you follow the fact that a young player joins into something he has dreamed of all his life and may become a successful and wealthy person handled properly, by making it in the AFL.
Well they might just believe what the trainer or the coach or the bloody chemist tells them. So lets forget all the bullshit words we all come out with, me yes I blabber on, but , 34 blokes have stated they were innocent of having knowledge , and they still got banned for lack of Knowledge, after being informed the injection was legal, I don't believe that any of them knew, they just went along , and no one will ever prove otherwise, a small law set up by a sporting adjudicator , has them all banned.
Even if one thought he was on drugs and the other 33 didn't is the doubt. So yes, lets say they were all as guilty as hell, does that mean that being genuinely misinformed takes you out of your sport for a year? For being misinformed, well if like a lot of you say they were drug cheats and that is proven which it wasn't then they should by rights be banned for life! if not knowing gets you a year, double parking might get you hanged.
Thats the point , is all , I don't give a f*** if EFC were disbanded , ITS NOT MY CLUB, BUT IN SPORT , THE AFL MAKES AND CHANGES SO MANY RULES ON THE GROUND, NO BODY KNOWS WHATS RIGHT OT WRONG , OFFICIALLY!Even the umpires . I have to stop this is sending me crazy, I know all the points you BF people make , all make sense too, but can't you once see through to the point that maybe just maybe injustice happened to 34 people, 34 of them. Or maybe only ONE! The number doesn't matter.
Promise I'm off this now , thanks for the debate!

Seriously, dude, you need to get a hobby. This obsession with spreading absurdities across the Internet is verging on ridiculous now.

Show any kind of evidence that the players were duped. Anything. There is none and has never been any. Nobody but you and a few other posters who cannot even get simple facts correct is spreading this yarn any longer.

Its been established the players were complicit in acting outside their responsibilities. Ok got that? Established.

They acted contrary to their responsibilities that were known and agreed to prior to any action by ASADA. They knowingly took injections, with the intent of gaining performance improvements all while keeping that injection regime hidden from the club doctor. That is a clear breach pf the code. Clear!.

They failed their responsibilities by failing to verify the nature and content of those injections. That led to a breach of the code.

They could have and were in fact required to undertake those checks via ASADA PRIOR to commencing that injection regime. They ALL failed to do so.

Now it has been established to the required level of proof that what they were taking was a banned performance enhancing substance. They did not get banned for lack of knowledge, they got banned for taking PEDs. They could have avoided those bans very easily by following the code and making use of the resources made available to all athletes. Yes, all 34.

Whether they were actually duped or intentional cheats might be the subject of discussion, there is zero doubt they failed in their stated obligations. You keep raising the same guff over and over again and yet you have never addressed this simple point. You avoid it because its fatal to your line of propaganda. The players are not innocent victims of a conspiracy, they are victims of their own negligence at best and convicted drug cheats at worst.

No repeated nonsense will ever change that

 

[harrisendblue]

Tim Lane. Non Biased media presenter.

jobe , the convicted drug cheat, has an opportunity to show genuine remorse and accept responsibility by handing in his ill gotten brownlow. alas the longer he delays doing this casts further doubt on his credibility and moral fiber. it appears he is really struggling with the commercial ramifications of doing the right thing.

 

[harrisendblue]

Seriously, dude, you need to get a hobby. This obsession with spreading absurdities across the Internet is verging on absurd now.

Show any kind of evidence that the players were duped. Anything. There is none and has never been any. Nobody but you and a few other posters who cannot even get simple facts correct is spreading this yarn any longer.

Its been established the players were complicit in acting outside their responsibilities. Ok got that? Established.

They acted contrary to their responsibilities that were known and agreed to prior to any action by ASADA. They knowingly took injections, with the intent of gaining performance improvements all while keeping that injection regime hidden from the club doctor. That is a clear breach pf the code. Clear!.

They failed their responsibilities by failing to verify the nature and content of those injections. That led to a breach of the code.

They could have and were in fact required to undertake those checks via ASADA PRIOR to commencing that injection regime. They ALL failed to do so.

Now it has been established to the required level of proof that what they were taking was a banned performance enhancing substance. They did not get banned for lack of knowledge, they got banned for taking PEDs. They could have avoided those bans very easily by following the code and making use of the resources made available to all athletes. Yes, all 34.

Whether they were actually duped or intentional cheats might be the subject of discussion, there is zero doubt they failed in their stated obligations. You keep raising the same guff over and over again and yet you have never addressed this simple point. You avoid it because its fatal to your line of propaganda. The players are not innocent victims of a conspiracy, they are victims of their own negligence at best and convicted drug cheats at worst.

No repeated nonsense will ever change that

well said.
the 34 essendon players for ever and a day shall be known as convicted drug cheats. that is their cross to bear and hopefully that will be the only ramification.

 

[harrisendblue]

should the afl somehow not take jobe's brownlow off him then we should all unite and undertake the following protests:

• boycott all essendon home games
• boo like we have never booed before jobe the convicted drug cheat.

rise up if required and pressure the afl to change their decision or make it so hard that he suddenly retires.

 

[VL3OJ]

should the afl somehow not take jobe's brownlow off him then we should all unite and undertake the following protests:

• boycott all essendon home games
• boo like we have never booed before jobe the convicted drug cheat.

rise up if required and pressure the afl to change their decision or make it so hard that he suddenly retires.

Sorry harrisendblue, this is a corporation based on greed and any protest wont dint the coffers. I would love to ask Gil a question or two at a press conference if anyone could fling me a lanyard/media pass. You know, questions that the anointed media corps that are fed scraps by the AFL, don't.

 

[SydCrow]

Were Armstrong's tour jerseys awarded to the runners up?

 

[harrisendblue]

Sorry harrisendblue, this is a corporation based on greed and any protest wont dint the coffers. I would love to ask Gil a question or two at a press conference if anyone could fling me a lanyard/media pass. You know, questions that the anointed media corps that are fed scraps by the AFL, don't.

maybe im a dreamer but surely in the year of the underdog this could be the time to seriously rise up against them and make a statement. hey if the donald can get up surely we can make that fat arse CDC retire under the weight of goodsy like booing pressure.

personally i would rather u ask some non standard questions to those those poor innocent players and in particular the skip and his old man. while ur at challenge the essenscum reporters to a forensic review of their personal affairs - who knows what that might uncover.

 

[Power Raid]

Don't take the medal away

Just put a giant line through his name and put drug cheat next to it for all of history to see

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Were Armstrong's tour jerseys awarded to the runners up?

Very different circumstances because without Armstrong in the race the runner up may not have won. The entire dynamics of a three week tour would have been completely different and the second placed rider might not have been the one who would have won.

A better comparison would be AFL football. The very sport we are referring to. Ineligible players are still allowed to earn Brownlow medal votes, but they just cant win the medal. Using the very rules that already exist , the award should go to the eligible player who has already earned the most votes. Cotchin and Mitchell.

It would be a disgrace if no winner was declared.

 

[harrisendblue]

Don't take the medal away

Just put a giant line through his name and put drug cheat next to it for all of history to see

tend to disagree because by letting the convicted drug cheat (CVC) keep the award then historically it supports the afl view the players were victims.

it sends a much stronger message to all other clubs / players that there will be serious ramifications if u transgress and are found guilty. the extra bonus of it being taken away is that his compensation claim from the bombres will greatly increase.

it will then absolutely go down in history.

 

[jatz14]

Jesus Christ, people need to take a chill pill. Jobe should be stripped off the medal, and many things the AFL has done could have been done better, but corruption, greed? For * sake, look up what those things mean. It is not, I do not like their decision, they must be greedy corrupt bastards, it isnt even, I REALLY dislike what they did, they must be greedy corrupt bastards.

Shock, Horror, senior management of the AFL has been trying to manage the biggest event to hit the sport in decades, its their ******* job.

The `I am offended, I demand recompense` movement has infected BigFooty.

If your that ******* upset with the AFL, you should ******* protest by boycotting all footy (and that includes BF), and march around outside headquarters with a big ******* placard that says, I am a ******* sooky lala, and I am offended.

Maybe someone will give you a hug and a ******* tissue.

 

[HairyO]

Were Armstrong's tour jerseys awarded to the runners up?

Who was the next clean cyclist in any of those years?

I can easily tell you who was the next clean footballer (in fact there were 2 of them).

 

[harrisendblue]

Jesus Christ, people need to take a chill pill. Jobe should be stripped off the medal, and many things the AFL has done could have been done better, but corruption, greed? For **** sake, look up what those things mean. It is not, I do not like their decision, they must be greedy corrupt bastards, it isnt even, I REALLY dislike what they did, they must be greedy corrupt bastards.

Shock, Horror, senior management of the AFL has been trying to manage the biggest event to hit the sport in decades, its their ******* job.

The `I am offended, I demand recompense` movement has infected BigFooty.

If your that ******* upset with the AFL, you should ******* protest by boycotting all footy (and that includes BF), and march around outside headquarters with a big ******* placard that says, I am a ******* sooky lala, and I am offended.

Maybe someone will give you a hug and a ******* tissue.

i think the issue many have is the methods they have used to manage this issue. I dont agree there has been corruption however they have managed it so as to minimise the impact on the game. unfortunately for me at least i have been really disappointed the essendon club was not banned and would have accepted any impact on the game. if it means there two fewer games then so be it - i would just follow my local side. The club in my opinion has not been adequately punished.

the one ban i would support is if jobe doesn't have his medal taken off him - should that happen i will boycott essendon home games and boo him loudly and often in the home game.

 

[SydCrow]

Very different circumstances because without Armstrong in the race the runner up may not have won. The entire dynamics of a three week tour would have been completely different and the second placed rider might not have been the one who would have won.

A better comparison would be AFL football. The very sport we are referring to. Ineligible players are still allowed to earn Brownlow medal votes, but they just cant win the medal. Using the very rules that already exist , the award should go to the eligible player who has already earned the most votes. Cotchin and Mitchell.

It would be a disgrace if no winner was declared.

good example - if Watson wasn't playing (which he shouldn't have been due to a drugs suspension), players would have earned different votes for every game in which he polled.

Who cares if no winner is declared?

 

[harrisendblue]

good example - if Watson wasn't playing (which he shouldn't have been due to a drugs suspension), players would have earned different votes for every game in which he polled.

Who cares if no winner is declared?

well the two boys who would have won for starters. for jobe to be truly punished he needs to see others with what he had. jobe was ineligible the next highest wins it - quite simple really. in order to recompense cotch & mitchell they should be presented with the brownlows at some other significant event eg the season opener, or GF or even the first meeting between coasters/tiggies. it needs to be big enough so the players get some sort of buzz and jobe gets to reflect even more.

 

[Power Raid]

tend to disagree because by letting the convicted drug cheat (CVC) keep the award then historically it supports the afl view the players were victims.

it sends a much stronger message to all other clubs / players that there will be serious ramifications if u transgress and are found guilty. the extra bonus of it being taken away is that his compensation claim from the bombres will greatly increase.

it will then absolutely go down in history.

I'm a big supporter of going hardline against drugs in sport for a variety of reasons.

I would only allow treatment for AFL players as you would an 8 year old. None of this jab with a pain killers and play on.

If you can't man up play without a jab, then don't play.