Is it Bucks or the Players?

[jackcass]

If Buckley had found the elixir of youth and given it to, BJ, Tarrant, LB, Krakouer, Didak, Ball, Jolly etc. then you would be right he would not have needed to rebuild as quickly.

If Malthouse had of found it in 2011 we likely wouldn't have been rolled by the Cats.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

First time Bucks has had more votes than Players.

I believe the players can play at a high level, however require at least till the end of next season to gel really good.

 

[Kirby]

Thew voting will get really interesting if we get rolled by the Lions on Sunday.

Bucks 4326 vote(s)

Players 31 vote(s)

 

[jmac70]

Thew voting will get really interesting if we get rolled by the Lions on Sunday.

Bucks 4326 vote(s)

Players 31 vote(s)

Put me down for a players vote if that happens.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Put me down for a players vote if that happens.

This exactly ^^^

 

[jackcass]

Put me down for a players vote if that happens.

Tend to agree. We saw Saturday night that the gameplan isn't overly complicated, it's about quick ball movement, into the corridor when possible, players running in support. The players have shown they can implement so they need to bring it again this week. In fact, we should see improved application. Critical aspects are maintaining possession, and taking the scoring opportunities when generated. That's what let them down previously. Can imagine confidence could wane pretty quickly if they can't manage this and then it becomes a grind. I haven't seen a lot of the Bears this season so not sure what to expect from them.

 

[CFC2010]

Put me down for a players vote if that happens.

Does that mean you voted Bucks now jmac?

 

[freebloke]

I can say if you drop bucks and just fix up some of the crappy list management, the Pies can make the 8 easily next year. Pendlebury is better than Selwood, but poor coaching by Bucks has meant he hasn't seen finals in some of his best years.

Perhaps some of you guys are sympethatic of Bucks, but when he goes you'll realise how much of that was just Stockholm syndrome.

 

[The Plowking]

I can say if you drop bucks and just fix up some of the crappy list management, the Pies can make the 8 easily next year. Pendlebury is better than Selwood, but poor coaching by Bucks has meant he hasn't seen finals in some of his best years.

Perhaps some of you guys are sympethatic of Bucks, but when he goes you'll realise how much of that was just Stockholm syndrome.

Maybe....
But maybe not!

 

[Anzacday]

I can say if you drop bucks and just fix up some of the crappy list management, the Pies can make the 8 easily next year. Pendlebury is better than Selwood, but poor coaching by Bucks has meant he hasn't seen finals in some of his best years.

Perhaps some of you guys are sympethatic of Bucks, but when he goes you'll realise how much of that was just Stockholm syndrome.

Interesting choice given your user name.

 

[mckenna6575]

I think the reason we're seeing inconsistency is a result of the younger or inexperienced players. Players like Moore, Aish, DeGoey, Maynard, Schade, Phillips, Smith and probably a couple of others that are escaping me.

Even Adams and Treloar are going to have occasional down games until they hit their peak in 3 to 5 years.

Add to that, our experienced players coming in and out of form, ala Fasolo. Blair is constantly down but is still in the side more often than not.

The only really consistent players we've had this season are Pendlebury, Howe, Elliott (once he got going) Dunn, Sidebottom and Goldsack, which is saying something.

All of this compiled, mixed with a 22 that's constantly changing. This is where Buckley can gain some control. Get a better idea as to what the best 22 is going forward and try and hold the same team for 4-5 weeks.

Can he motivate them enoughis the only question for me?

I think the players like him but does he get them fired up? Clearly he did on Saturday

More of the same please

 

[CFC2010]

Interesting that on Open Mike tonight Sumich said the players would have run through a brick wall for Mick.

It has and always will be my gripe with Bucks.........IMO self motivation doesn't work and hasn't worked for us..........unless your someone like Pendles.

Quarter time Saturday night proved it to me.

 

[60 Yards Out]

Tried to vote for both but the system doesn't allow it, so I settled for 'players'. Tried to unvote completely, but that doesn't work.

This thread should be "Is it Bucks and the Players?" I'm confident the answer is "Yes."

Unfortunately, life is not simple enough for the thread title as it stands.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Tried to vote for both but the system doesn't allow it, so I settled for 'players'. Tried to unvote completely, but that doesn't work.

This thread should be "Is it Bucks and the Players?" I'm confident the answer is "Yes."

Unfortunately, life is not simple enough for the thread title as it stands.

Just don't like people just assuming that it's always Bucks is fault. It's not. Sometimes the onus falls on the players, and I believe this is one of the times.

 

[60 Yards Out]

Just don't like people just assuming that it's always Bucks is fault. It's not. Sometimes the onus falls on the players, and I believe this is one of the times.

Agree completely.

 

[magpie_marty]

Bucks or the Players?
My view is a combination of both and also team selection and the talent available in the reserves/VFL.
Collingwood has had some great coaches that never won Premierships eg Bob Rose & Tom Hafey,Was it the players or the coach ?

 

[Ted Parker]

Our drafting was abhorred over the 2006-2011 period.
Without the benefit of father-son selections it would have proved much worse.

1997 - Tarrant - 161 & 35 games
1999 - Josh Fraser priority pick 200 games Leon Davis - 225 games Ben Johnson - 235 games
Pre Season - Shane O'Bree 227 games
2000 - Alan Didak - 218 games
2001 - Dane Swan AAx5 -258 games
2003 - Nick Maxwell - AAx1 -208 games rookie draft
2004 - Travis Cloke f/s AAx2 - 246 games
2005 - Scott Pendlebury AAx5 - 245 games Harry O'Brien - 199 games rookie draft
2006 bust
2007 bust
2008 - Steele Sidebottom
2009 bust
2010 - Alex Fasolo
2011 bust
2012 - Brodie Grundy, Ramsay
2013 - Langdon, Oxley, Scharenberg
2014 - De Goey, Moore f/s, Maynard
2015 - Howe & Treloar

In addition we just haven't done well developing 200 game players.
Rhyce Shaw f/s, Dale Thomas, Heath Shaw f/s all 200 game players.
Both Shaw's made all Australian post leaving Collingwood. Heath twice.

2014 was our last All Australian.

Under 22 All Australian team :
2012 Sidebottom & Howe & (we had Beams)
2013 Sidebottom
2014 Elliott, Langdon & Treloar & (we had Witts)
2015 Grundy, Langdon & Treloar
2016 Grundy & Moore

So from here we need to consolidate our goal to goal line and that involves having a masterplan for the next 5 years.

Put Fasolo on the trade table. Waste of time maintaining a fringe player when the club list needs strength down the spine.
Add Blair, Sinclair, Broomhead, Keeffe, Thomas, Aish to trade up enough points to do what it takes to secure Steven May & Josh Schache and bring both Victorians home into the Westpac Centre along with the contracts required to make it happen.
If we go after Sam Reid I'll spew.

May, Dunn / Reid, Grundy, Moore, Schache down the middle for 2018.
The midfield is set.
The list reset down the middle however must take place at this year via the trade period & draft.

The club should go one step further and announce Buckleys contract extension at the mid-season break and take that off the agenda.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

See the 'Buckley gutted a young premiership list' quite often. Anyone care to create a post outlining who was untimely ripped and why?

 

[bunter]

I can say if you drop bucks and just fix up some of the crappy list management, the Pies can make the 8 easily next year. Pendlebury is better than Selwood, but poor coaching by Bucks has meant he hasn't seen finals in some of his best years.

Perhaps some of you guys are sympethatic of Bucks, but when he goes you'll realise how much of that was just Stockholm syndrome.

Crock of s**t!

 

[Pacman Carney]

Pies end of 2011

A young premiership list. Capable of winning more premierships.
All draft picks gone to gold coast and now to gws meaning the chasing pack would not improve as quickly as normal.
Perfect time to be on top of the AFL. Should of have targeted 2 to 3 more premierships.

But wait....


Let's replace the coach, dismantle the squad and rebuild in time to compete(if rebuild goes to plan) with the gws who have 20 top ten draft picks.

This goes down as one of the worst debacles in sporting history. All coaches, recruiters and people responsible need to go. Just not acceptable.

We could of challenged for more flags over past 6 years and still be where we are today.

The coach was replaced, with his agreement, in 2009. After ten years with no success.
Tell me, who after 10 years and no flag gets a 5 year contract extension? (2 as coach 3 as DoC)?
No one in history that's who.
We never replaced a premiership coach. Replacing him brought the premiership.
He then reneged on the deal.

 

[jackcass]

Crock of s**t!

Agree. Even if we miss finals this year and Bucks is somehow retained, I'd be very confident of getting there next year. Another 12 months experience into the kids and another 22 games of the core group playing together being the keys.

 

[domin8tors]

I'd say it's player, and by this I mean we are one Key forward 50+ goals short of being a top 4 side.

 

[PieNSauce]

I personally can't see how you could attribute 100% either way. To me it's obvious that it's a combination of both coach and players even if there's a good argument to suggest it has more to do with the coach. Clearly it's the coach who takes responsibility for getting the players up to play consistently but you do have to also make allowance for the fact that young players will take time. It's also true that when your list make up has changed significantly, it will take time for them to gel together as a unit. Sorry but I could not find a way to justify voting on those choices.

 

[Carringbush2010]

We have the foundations of a good list though. If we can somehow can get our hands on a couple of key position players over the next off seasons we will be well placed for a finals birth.

No we already have a good list, think of it as a should be efficient V8 running on 5 or 6 cylinders. As far as KPP we have those, young and raw and some have not ever played yet but it's there. Kinda spewin on Cloke - was vital to our structure, giving the opposition another target to defend. Yeah I know that's what White is for but does not have the same "presence"

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

See the 'Buckley gutted a young premiership list' quite often. Anyone care to create a post outlining who was untimely ripped and why?

Heath Shaw trade was a mistake. We know his history with ADD. But we also know that he is one of the best defenders in the game. Buckley traded Heath Shaw because he couldn't deal with Shaw's personality and condition.

And before you say that we need another midfielder so it was a trade to fill a team need. No we didn't.

We had Pendlebury, Swan, Beams, Sidebottom and just drafted Kennedy and Broomhead as midfielders using our 1st round picks.

There is no way you could argue at that particular time that you knew ahead of time that Beams would go home and that Kennedy and Broomhead would fail to establish themselves as midfielders.