Strategy Is it possible

[THATSGOLD]

Is Kreuzer a free agent? If so, I could definitely see us trading our first pick and Witts (from NSW I think, they need a ruck) for Treloar, then acquiring Kreuzer through FA. I don't really want Kreuzer but losing Witts could expose our ruck depth and he can play ruck/forward alongside Grundy. That hypothetical scenario would see:

In: Treloar, Kreuzer
Out: Pick 7, Witts

When we take into account pick 7 will most likely drop down the order due to FA compo that looks like a fantastic deal for us.

Ideally, I'd prefer having Treloar and Bennell (his problems aside, a classy outside mid with pace, skills and goal scoring ability is what we need), but if we are losing Witts as some have suggested we definitely need cover.

Wouldnt it be smarter to keep hold of Witts over Kreuzer. The up side is enormous. Why would you want to watch Witts go to GWS and dominate? He's only going to get better and better.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Not entering the draft untill the second round for two years in a row is fraught with Danger.

 

[MyManLynch]

Carlton board seem to think band 1 starts as low as $500k??. It's really a AFL nod and wink system anyway.. these published formulas are just a very broad guide to be followed or not followed at the AFL's discretion.

Exactly...the AFL will simply tailor the 'guidelines' to meet their agenda.
If they want to give Carlton a band 1, they will...if they don't, they won't.
It's called...making it up as you go along.

 

[domin8tors]

Given the salary cap is about to grow and Swan will be gone at the end of 2016, Young perhaps this year and guys like Pendles/Cloke et al will be at the back end of front loaded contracts, now is the time to stock up.

Nabbing the 4 I listed in one off season would all but guarantee us finals and have us more likely in the Top 4 frame.

I was thinking about this last night that basically the Treloar Deal is offset by Swan. then Aish is probably covered by the loss of Young and Seedsman.
the issues with Keefe and Thomas I suspect will free up around 300K plus trading of Witts should cover Kreuzar. I'm not 100% certain if that will leave enough for Danger. I can't recall if the 2 x senior lists spot is still applicable anymore ? if it is then perhaps Cloke and Pendles contracts are heavily backended.

 

[itsrobbiet]

My dream Trade would be:

Pick 7 and a player or 2nd round pick next year for Treloar.

Offer Witts ( he and Grundy don't work in the same side) and pick or player to Swans and try to get Sam Reid .May take more then that but they need a ruck man and some cap space.Reid is playing 3rd fiddle behind Tippett and Buddy. Comes to us he is 2nd forward behind cloke. Back Grundy in to be our ruck man and at a stretch Cox come in if he misses a few games. Maybe Recruit another young Ruck just in case.

1st round pick next year for Aish or 2nd round pick and player like Seedsman. Has done nothing to warrant 1st and 2nd round picks.

Off load Fasolo if someone will give us something worth while for him. Goes missing in too many big games.Maybe use this pick in trades.

In Treloar Aish Reid

Out early picks the next 2 years and one or two players.

The Reid one i don't see happening but i can hope.

 

[northpie]

Here's my Dream.

- Pick 7 and Witts for Treloar
- 2nd pick and 2016 First pick for Aish
- Kreuzer FA
- Dangerfield FA

Collingwood Premiers 2016

that is way overs for aish. you are valuing him as highly as Treloar. 2nd pick and a seedsmanor Oxley, or seedsman and Oxley given the lions need ready made players

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Wouldnt it be smarter to keep hold of Witts over Kreuzer. The up side is enormous. Why would you want to watch Witts go to GWS and dominate? He's only going to get better and better.

In theory I agree. But I'm not so sure Witts is taking the next step. I look at Max Gawn who is only 1 year (or less?) older than Witts but looks MILES ahead of him. He's not really clunking marks, he definitely won't get any quicker and he doesn't ever really dominate the ruck to at least give us a decent glimpse of what's to come.

Take away Kreuzer's injury history and you at least KNOW what you're getting from him if he can get a decent run at it and he's only 26. So we have Grundy, Cox, Kreuzer and Moore.

So Kreuzer is there and MORE than adequate until Cox is ready to step up. If need be, Moore gets another year or two to put some meat on and play a ruck role and all the while Jessie White is there in case tragedy strikes and Keefe could be back in 24 months.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Is it possible?

1) We get Treloar pissing off those cocky Tigers supporters getting ahead of themselves. Looking likely

2) We then only give our first pick and an excess player for Treloar annoying all those plastic franchise supporters at GWS who said we would have to pay a heap to get him. So many GWS supporters (all 3 of them) were saying they would not accept less than 2 first round picks.

3) We get Aish for a 2nd round pick and a surplus player. The Brisbane supporters may just explode, if any left.

4) We get Kreuzer as a free agent but not paying enough to give Carlton band 1 compo. Not sure i really want Kreuz but this would annoy Carlton supporters not getting band 1 and also annoy Richmond supporters who apparently want him.

In 1 trade period we piss off supporters of Richmond twice, Carlton, Brisbane and put GWS supporters in their place.

I call it Ed's evil plan.

Yep, I don't really care if we don't get any of these players however if we get all of them the troll value will be enormous. Other than winning a GF, I don't think anything can sustain a long off season better than pillaging weaker clubs for their talent.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Wouldnt it be smarter to keep hold of Witts over Kreuzer. The up side is enormous. Why would you want to watch Witts go to GWS and dominate? He's only going to get better and better.

With four on the bench next season, a mobile second ruck is going to move way up in value. Personally I don't see that much difference between Grundy and Witts. Grundy is better now but Witts has more potential. However neither of them accomodate each other as well as Kreuzer could. There is also Mason Cox as a up back up no 1 so the reality is we can afford to lose Witts who should have pretty good currency.

 

[Tbone McGraw]

With four on the bench next season, a mobile second ruck is going to move way up in value. Personally I don't see that much difference between Grundy and Witts. Grundy is better now but Witts has more potential. However neither of them accomodate each other as well as Kreuzer could. There is also Mason Cox as a up back up no 1 so the reality is we can afford to lose Witts who should have pretty good currency.

I agree with most of what you say except that Witts is more talented than Grundy. If you mean, witts is a better tap ruckman, i agree. However grundy does everything else far better and has more mongrel. My biggest worry with witts is lack of aggression and i personally believe that can not be taught. You either have aggression or not.

I am almost certain grundy has a far better afl career than witts for the above reasons.

 

[OniAu]

close but I think that's overs for Aish. I believe that it will be

Pick 7 and Witts for treloar
2nd rd pick and Seedsman for Aish.
Kreuzer FA
and I suspect that one other player will be traded to try and get another 2nd round pick. so I dare say that names such as
Toovey / Blair / Kennedy / Fasolo will be thrown up.

I like all of that, the last part I wouldn't say the bolded ones would get us a 2nd round pick, say early 3rd at best. Apart from Fas who I don't think we should trade. We need stability in our forward line. Elliott, Fas & Moore are key parts of it atm, need to fill those other 3 spaces in the next few years

 

[Schraderbrau]

I agree with most of what you say except that Witts is more talented than Grundy. If you mean, witts is a better tap ruckman, i agree. However grundy does everything else far better and has more mongrel. My biggest worry with witts is lack of aggression and i personally believe that can not be taught. You either have aggression or not.

I am almost certain grundy has a far better afl career than witts for the above reasons.

I think physically Grundy will end up a bit off the elite AFL rucks like Goldstein, Jacobs and Sandilands. Witts doesn't have the physical cap on his performance and his skill are actually pretty decent, his problem is finding the ball atm. My view on Witts is he could well end up being top 3-4 rucks in the comp but could just as easily be useless. Grundy doesn't have that uncertainty about him, he is going to be good, but also is capped in how high he can climb. In that respect he is a bit like Andrew Jolly, just a super solid operator but still a little bit off the elite for that position.

 

[Kappa]

Here's my Dream.

- Pick 7 and Witts for Treloar
- 2nd pick and 2016 First pick for Aish
- Kreuzer FA
- Dangerfield FA

Collingwood Premiers 2016

If Cloke was getting paid what he's worth then maybe we could sneak it in

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Not entering the draft untill the second round for two years in a row is fraught with Danger.

Fraught with Dangerfield?

That would be my pricing Dangerfield, otherwise it is fraught with danger, we agree

 

[Matt_352]

Given the salary cap is about to grow and Swan will be gone at the end of 2016, Young perhaps this year and guys like Pendles/Cloke et al will be at the back end of front loaded contracts, now is the time to stock up.

Nabbing the 4 I listed in one off season would all but guarantee us finals and have us more likely in the Top 4 frame.

As a permanent fwd i can see swanny hanging around till 2018

 

[domin8tors]

I like all of that, the last part I wouldn't say the bolded ones would get us a 2nd round pick, say early 3rd at best. Apart from Fas who I don't think we should trade. We need stability in our forward line. Elliott, Fas & Moore are key parts of it atm, need to fill those other 3 spaces in the next few years

yeah I was thinking the same thing as I was typing it lol. I think Kennedy could potentially get a late 2nd round. personally I'm just concerned about our FWD line setup going forward and if we give up pick #7. " let's assume that weidaman " then our Key position will be Cloke then Moore. with a fragile white or Kruezar. it just doesn't sit well with me.

 

[domin8tors]

Wouldnt it be smarter to keep hold of Witts over Kreuzer. The up side is enormous. Why would you want to watch Witts go to GWS and dominate? He's only going to get better and better.

note this date down. 1st time you and I may actually agree

 

[davywap]

throw in Dangerfield so we can piss of the Crows and Cats while we're at it

 

[Lefthanded]

I think physically Grundy will end up a bit off the elite AFL rucks like Goldstein, Jacobs and Sandilands. Witts doesn't have the physical cap on his performance and his skill are actually pretty decent, his problem is finding the ball atm. My view on Witts is he could well end up being top 3-4 rucks in the comp but could just as easily be useless. Grundy doesn't have that uncertainty about him, he is going to be good, but also is capped in how high he can climb. In that respect he is a bit like Andrew Jolly, just a super solid operator but still a little bit off the elite for that position.

Do you mean Darren Jolly?

 

[legendstatus]

Wouldnt it be smarter to keep hold of Witts over Kreuzer. The up side is enormous. Why would you want to watch Witts go to GWS and dominate? He's only going to get better and better.

Yeah I think you're the only one that thinks that

Put up a who's better thread Kruezer v Witts and you'll get your answer, do you watch much footy these days?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[speedytiger]

OP's motivation seems to be pissing other clubs off as first priority.

I like it ☺

 

[doodles98]

Do you mean Darren Jolly?

Keep up! He was talking about his brother Andrew who was a very good footballer for The Waubra Kangaroos until he went back to tennis.

 

[Hardas]

... Seriously, is anyone else getting annoyed at Lions and blues fans feeling they somehow deserve these early compensation picks for their broken down ruckmen? Free agency was bought in to help the players not the clubs. There is something distasteful at watching clubs hoping their players take a big offer elsewhere.

The whole idea of FA compensation is weird to me.
UFA's have put in their service - if they want to leave, let them go where they want, within the salary cap restrictions.
Clubs should be able to match RFA offers if they want; then try and convince the player to stay - if he still wants to leave, let him take his chances in the PSD.

 

[Ant85]

Just because we're not playing finals doesn't mean we can't still piss everyone off.

All for it!

 

[jackcass]

Carlton board seem to think band 1 starts as low as $500k??. It's really a AFL nod and wink system anyway.. these published formulas are just a very broad guide to be followed or not followed at the AFL's discretion.

That'd make more sense with Frawley earning Band 1 compo. Could never understand the Hawks being stupid enough to pay him $600k+.