Is it too soon to say i told you so?

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

If we go well this season that reflects well on Craig, not badly.

Good results show that he was developing the players just fine.

If we have a couple of mid-range 12th-6th years and Thompson, Johncock, Rutten disappear or fade away before the younger group can take a step up to have a genuine premiership assault then it reflects poorly on Craig.

 

[jenny61_99]

I see the old Carl has managed to break through!

 

[crowsup]

If we go well this season that reflects well on Craig, not badly.

Good results show that he was developing the players just fine.

If we have a couple of mid-range 12th-6th years and Thompson, Johncock, Rutten disappear or fade away before the younger group can take a step up to have a genuine premiership assault then it reflects poorly on Craig.

Most of the time I read your posts as being full of sarcasm.
I hope I'm correct in reading the above as sincere. If so...

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Just to clarify, I am tipping that the latter will occur.

However, if the former occurs then many of the criticisms I have levelled at Craig over the last few seasons will be shown to have been wrong.

 

[crowsup]

That would be a fair enough opinion.
I would say that enything lower than 8 woul be a fail for Neil and anything higher than 6 a pass for Neil and a credit to the new coach.

What I don't believe is that any major improvement would be wholy due to the new coach. As some posters would like us to believe.

 

[Vader]

Any new coach is, at least initially, standing on the shoulders of the man who came before him. Craig is/was responsible for recruiting most of the players on our list at the time of Sando's arrival and all but 4 of the 22 who played in R1 (our best 22). Craig is also responsible for leaving a list with phenomenal fitness, which allowed Sando to spend the entire summer working on the competitive aspects of the game.

On the other hand, Sando is very much responsible for numerous changes in direction, all of which (IMO) have improved the team's chances of success. Craig left a team of stringbean runners, Sando has (and continues to) turned them into muscle bound hulks. Sando has given them the freedom to express themselves on the field, in a way that Craig had forgotten how. Sando has also simplified our gameplan so that it is now suited to the players, as distinct from Craig's attempts to mould the players to fit his overly complex & rigid gameplan. Sando has also improved our ability to compete for the ball & pressure the opposition into turning it over, through building the players' physiques, improving their tackling techniques and general levels of aggression at the man & ball.

If Sando is able to achieve the ultimate success, with the players that Craig recruited, will that vindicate Craig? I think it will vindicate his recruiting techniques and priorities, but I don't think it would vindicate his game day coaching in any way at all.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

If Sando is able to achieve the ultimate success, with the players that Craig recruited, will that vindicate Craig? I think it will vindicate his recruiting techniques and priorities, but I don't think it would vindicate his game day coaching in any way at all.

Craig's coaching record is there for anyone to see.

Two preliminary finals, three other finals finishes and two years in the wilderness. Good, not great.

However, if there is success in the years immediately following his departure, that indicates his methods to develop the next batch of players after Goodwin, Ricciuto and co moved on were sound.

 

[Mr Zero]

Way too soon, everyone said the same thing about Bicks and look what happened. Only time will tell whether or not it's going to last. I think its a winner though.

 

[twentydollarnote]

I'm not sure how you get that a instant up turn would reflect well on craig. That would reflect poorly on him and if sando manages to develop our players into something down the track craig isn't responsible for that either, because most had stopped developing under craig.

 

[ruscy002]

I'm not sure how you get that a instant up turn would reflect well on craig. That would reflect poorly on him and if sando manages to develop our players talent into something down the track craig isn't responsible for that either, because many had stopped developing under craig.

Carl did state that an instant turnaround is finishing 5th or higher. I think that implies that this can't possibly be attributed to Sando's influence alone in such a short time frame.

 

[Team DJ]

Wasnt Matt Rendell the recruiter?
Not Neil Craig.....

 

[Vader]

Wasnt Matt Rendell the recruiter?
Not Neil Craig.....

He was.. but Craig set many of the parameters which Rendell had to work with.

 

[Carmo]

He was.. but Craig set many of the parameters which Rendell had to work with.

To which Matt Rendell duly found ways to work around lol!

 

[Godallblighty]

However, if there is success in the years immediately following his departure, that indicates his methods to develop the next batch of players after Goodwin, Ricciuto and co moved on were sound.

Don't agree. If the improvement is slow and steady, it supports the view that our level of achievement in the last couple of Craig's years was about what you'd expect, given the youth of our list, the impossible-to-manage-any-other-way departure of our senior players etc.

If there is a sudden dramatic improvement, however, it suggests that under Craig's regime the club was underachieving with the cattle they had.

I suspect it will be the latter. Craig was a good coach, but he lost his way. In the end, I believe he was actively *ing our development.

Nevertheless, FWIW I think the OP is premature.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

considering (well according to some) the results in 2005 was all Neil Craig doing, 2012 (good or bad) has to be about Brenton Sanderson.

Even if we go 1 and 22 - we had to make a change, therefore I don't see the need to say I told you so since their was no other option but to make a change.

 

[Truck Rutten]

Not the Charlie Walsh crap again. All the players love him, he got a ringing endorsement from Macca in his book, so why do the supporters feel like they can criticize?

They certainly seem to be loving not having to endure his cycling regime anymore.

 

[NTRabbit]

They certainly seem to be loving not having to endure his cycling regime anymore.

I'm sure they'd also love not having to eat within the confines of their dietitian prescribed meal plans over the Xmas break too.

 

[Truck Rutten]

arm chair experts are the most knowledgeable expert.

Please illuminate me about the benefits he delivered to the club over the past few years? The guy is a dinosaur whose punishing methods and incessant pissing in the ears of the players when they came off the ground for a breather, had long since past their shelf life. Unfortunately he came as a package deal with his old mate Neil.

 

[Truck Rutten]

I'm sure they'd also love not having to eat within the confines of their dietitian prescribed meal plans over the Xmas break too.

Are you suggesting that Sando hasn't put enough work into them over the pre-season? Has any premiership team in recent memory spent as much time on the bikes as our guys did?

 

[taylor_walker_13]

FFS why does almost every thread circle back to Craig

Craigy is gone and there is no doubt that the club was in need of change and with all change there is a immediate impact and in our case it has been positive however the journey moving forward is all about sustainable success.

It's time to stop dancing on Craigy's grave and start enjoying the journey moving forward

Yet it is okay to 'dance' on Jack Gunstans grave? Phil Davis grave?

 

[Vader]

Please illuminate me about the benefits he delivered to the club over the past few years? The guy is a dinosaur whose punishing methods and incessant pissing in the ears of the players when they came off the ground for a breather, had long since past their shelf life. Unfortunately he came as a package deal with his old mate Neil.

For starters, his cycling regime is largely responsible for the team's elite fitness base - which allowed Sando the luxury of focussing on weights & competitive drills during the most recent off-season.

 

[Sekaj]

For starters, his cycling regime is largely responsible for the team's elite fitness base

1. How do we know the team's fitness base is elite?
2. If 1. is true, how do we know that Craig's cycling regime is largely reponsible for this?

 

[Slippery Pete]

1. How do we know the team's fitness base is elite?
2. If 1. is true, how do we know that Craig's cycling regime is largely reponsible for this?

Nobody's buying it and he shouldn't be selling it.

On the off chance we had an "elite" fitness base at the end of last year (as opposed to what we
really were - flogged) how long does he think that lasts?

Does he think you can have Craig's elite aerobic fitness base in syndication? Like reruns of Seinfeld earning the creators millions of dollars?

Has Vader ever been remotely fit enough in his life to understand what happens to a fitness base when training is stopped or a different type of training is undertaken?

Not by the sounds of it.

The only benefits yielded from Craig's fitness regime were that it was stopped.

 

[taylor_walker_13]

For starters, his cycling regime is largely responsible for the team's elite fitness base - which allowed Sando the luxury of focussing on weights & competitive drills during the most recent off-season.

OMG seriously where did you dream that up

 

[taylor_walker_13]

Nobody's buying it and he shouldn't be selling it.

On the off chance we had an "elite" fitness base at the end of last year (as opposed to what we
really were - flogged) how long does he think that lasts?

Does he think you can have Craig's elite aerobic fitness base in syndication? Like reruns of Seinfeld earning the creators millions of dollars?

Has Vader ever been remotely fit enough in his life to understand what happens to a fitness base when training is stopped or a different type of training is undertaken?

Not by the sounds of it.

The only benefits yielded from Craig's fitness regime were that it was stopped.

I thought Vadar had reached his point of ridiculous posts............that post proves otherwise, that is just downright embarassing.