Is LeBron James still the best player on the planet?

[MC Extra Dollop]

I tend to agree with you. It's splitting hairs, and always dangerous to compare players of a different era, but I still think Magic Johnson was an incredible player, and I'd go so far as to say the Lakers wouldn't have won any of their 5 championships in his era without him. He was Showtime, he WAS the Lakers. There is no doubt about that. Jordan is the only player I'd dare say was better.

LeBron is just awesome, and if he can lead the Cavs to a championship after doing it with the Heat, it will prove to me he is one of the great players in NBA history. It is just so hard to imagine LeBron in the 80s Lakers teams, the game then and now is poles apart.

I think some people may under-rate what the Johnson-Bird rivalry did for basketball, and how it pushed the game to a new level. If it wasn't for those two, maybe those who have followed may not be as great a player as they are now. It's a bit like Kobe. Would he have reached the heights he did if Jordan hadn't come along before him? Possibly not.

Hey, I love Magic. But he wasn't even unequivocally the Lakers' best player until the late 80s, when Kareem seriously started to slow down. The Lakers with LeBron instead of Magic would still have been an awesome team. I don't know about better or worse, just different. It was Magic's team and it was built around his skills, but from everything I've read, it was a similar situation to when Shaq joined the Heat and shared top dog status with Wade, until Wade seized it in 2006. That's pretty much how it went with Kareem and Magic, with Magic taking the undisputed #1 mantle in 1987.

Pretty confident that the Lakers with LeBron would have won multiple championships in the 1980s though. LeBron with Worthy, 6-7 years of Kareem in the tail end of his prime, Michael Cooper (possibly the best defensive player of the 1980s), Byron Scott or Norm Nixon and other quality starters like AC Green, Jamaal Wilkes, Sam Perkins, Mychal Thompson, Vlade Divac? It would have been interesting, as with so many front court weapons, LeBron would have to play point, or on the wing. But I don't see any reason why he wouldn't have fit right in. I don't think LeBron has any problem sacrificing points for assists. He can't run a fast break like Magic, but similarly, no one has ever been a better one man fast break than LeBron James.

 

[calyam]

And again I understand and know it was completely different. Wilt averaged 50 and 25 for a season. It's ridiculous and unrealistic in today's game. But just because the game was different back then, doesnt diminish what they did. The game was the game then. It's not like they knew the game would be different in 50 years. All they knew was basketball at that moment so they went about playing it the best they could.

Oscar Robertson is definitely in the top 10 baller of all time. Around the 7-10 mark though.

The thing is it isn't ridiculous once you made the appropriate adjustments. Wilt's 50 ppg season is not as statistically exceptional as Jordan's 37.1 ppg season once you adjust for pace. Similarly, based on the evidence we have Rodman is the greatest rebounder of all time.

LBJ averaged a triple double per 100 possessions between the 2007-08 season and the 2012-13 season. For the record, that is far fewer possessions that Robinson had to reach the same mark.

We can either compared apples vs oranges and assume that players in the 1960s were exceptional or dig a little deeper and make apple vs apple comparisons. The latter reveals that there was nothing particularly exceptional about the likes of Wilt or Oscar from a historical standpoint.

 

[calyam]

I don't get this argument people make when they say LeBron is slowing down and won't be any good once his athleticism fades. He is already on the decline athletically yet nobody can guard him still.

You only have to look at guy's like KG and Kobe who continued to have a massive impact in their 30s despite injuries robbing them of athleticism. They were beasts like LeBron once upon a time.

LeBron has barely had a serious injury in his career. No knee troubles like those two.

He'll be the same guy in a few seasons time. His footwork is very good.

I was more confident about how he would age last season when his mid-range game was so good. This season his shooting percentages have been well done.

That said there's little reason he can't get back to his best, particularly next season when both he and his teammates are more comfortable working together.

LBJ will still be a nightmare match up for another five years, injuries permitting, since he is willing to work hard at his game and make improvements year-to-year.

 

[jod23]

He'll be the same guy in a few seasons time. His footwork is very good.

Nobody is saying he will be. Jordan wasn't.

What's your point

Nobody is saying he will be? You just said he will be which made me post my post about father time?

Are you crazy or something? Hahah...

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Who knows?? He is just a Jordan clone, but just not nearly as good. I like how he denies it too haha

Any incredibly athletic superstar two guard is going to be called a Jordan clone. It comes with the territory. Jordan did everything you'd want a two guard to do, so I'm not sure how you can break the mold and still be as good a player. I know people will talk about his mannerisms, but who really cares if he shoots a fadeaway like Jordan, or does a fist pump like Jordan? Why wouldn't you copy Jordan, if that's your position? Two guard isn't like any other position on the floor, where very different players have been as effective (or near enough to) as each other, some of the greatest ever, while approaching their position very different ways. To be a great two guard, you pretty much have to have the tools that Jordan had. I'm not sure how else you can really approach it. Centre, power forward, small forward, point guard...they're all positions where you can be one of the best ever by doing different things to another guy.

 

[jod23]

Any incredibly athletic superstar two guard is going to be called a Jordan clone. It comes with the territory. Jordan did everything you'd want a two guard to do, so I'm not sure how you can break the mold and still be as good a player. I know people will talk about his mannerisms, but who really cares if he shoots a fadeaway like Jordan, or does a fist pump like Jordan? Why wouldn't you copy Jordan, if that's your position? Two guard isn't like any other position on the floor, where very different players have been as effective (or near enough to) as each other, some of the greatest ever, while approaching their position very different ways. To be a great two guard, you pretty much have to have the tools that Jordan had. I'm not sure how else you can really approach it. Centre, power forward, small forward, point guard...they're all positions where you can be one of the best ever by doing different things to another guy.

I wasnt bagging Kobe about it, if he wants to model his game on MJ, why wouldnt you. MJ was the best. I just think it's funny how Kobe always denies it in interviews when everything about his game mirrors Jordans. His shooting mechanics, the way he walks, the way he chews gum, his mannerisms. Everything.

As for being a great two guard. You dont have to be like Jordan. Plenty of great two guards who have been nothing like Jordan.

 

[PP34]

Nobody is saying he will be? You just said he will be which made me post my post about father time?

Are you crazy or something? Hahah...

I forgot what I wrote. He won't be any different in a few seasons time. In his later 30s? Yeah sure.

 

[jod23]

I forgot what I wrote. He won't be any different in a few seasons time. In his later 30s? Yeah sure.

Hahah excellent. Ok

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I wasnt bagging Kobe about it, if he wants to model his game on MJ, why wouldnt you. MJ was the best. I just think it's funny how Kobe always denies it in interviews when everything about his game mirrors Jordans. His shooting mechanics, the way he walks, the way he chews gum, his mannerisms. Everything.

As for being a great two guard. You dont have to be like Jordan. Plenty of great two guards who have been nothing like Jordan.

Maybe in the days of black and white TV. Nowadays, if you don't do all the things well that Jordan did at an elite level, to be honest, I think you're limiting yourself to a few All Star appearances and maybe scraping in to the HOF if you're lucky. Iverson might be an exception, but he was really a shoot first point guard, as far as I'm concerned. You need to be extremely athletic. You need to be an excellent mid range shooter and at least force the defence to play you honestly from outside the arc. You need to be a good defender. You need to have point guard handles. You need to understand how important it is to get your teammates involved. And you need to be able to go out and grab ten rebounds anytime you are required to. You probably need to be a good size too, because you're going to cop a hammering. And if you score at least a 7/10 in all of those categories, you're going to be accused of being a Jordan clone.

Sure, you can be a great player without ticking all of those boxes (take Reggie Miller, for example), if you're good in most of those areas, especially if you have an unbelievable shot on you. But you won't be considered one of the best ever and you won't lead a team to a championship. I've heard 'Jordan clone' about umpteen players over the years. Kobe is the best of them, the second best two guard ever and one of only three of these past or current 'Jordan clones' that will end up in the HOF.

 

[fidstar]

I tend to agree with you. It's splitting hairs, and always dangerous to compare players of a different era, but I still think Magic Johnson was an incredible player, and I'd go so far as to say the Lakers wouldn't have won any of their 5 championships in his era without him.

Not sure what you are saying. Take the superstar out of any championship team and they wouldn't win the championship.

 

[fidstar]

Not really. LeBron is just going to outlast Bird and win more because he doesn't have the ill-fortune of going up against Magic

If LeBron retired at the end of the year he would be in front of Bird.

 

[PP34]

If LeBron retired at the end of the year he would be in front of Bird.

And that goes back to my point about who Bird competed against.

 

[fidstar]

Guess we have to wait a few more year until he loses that athleticism

 

[fidstar]

And that goes back to my point about who Bird competed against.

Bird lost twice to the Lakers. LeBron lost twice to the Spurs. Not a massive difference.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Guess we have to wait a few more year until he loses that athleticism

Nope, he's cooked. Bill Simmons said it; it must be true.

 

[jod23]

Bird lost twice to the Lakers. LeBron lost twice to the Spurs. Not a massive difference.

Twice to the Spurs?

 

[fidstar]

Twice to the Spurs?

2007 and 2014

 

[jod23]

2007 and 2014

Oh right yeah, I forget that that whitewash ever even happened haha.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Speaking of Kobe, isn't it funny how no-one seems to remember this Game 7 from his CV?

http://www.nba.com/games/20060506/LALPHX/recap.html

 

[Art Corvelay]

Nope, he's cooked. Bill Simmons said it; it must be true.

LeBron can join the welfare queue with Bill then

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Not sure what you are saying. Take the superstar out of any championship team and they wouldn't win the championship.

I guess what I'm saying is Magic Johnson was unique. You just don't see 6'9" point guards who can go coast to coast and hit buzzer beaters like Magic. He was the perfect fit for the side he was in at the time, and I cannot think of another player who could have played that role.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Hey, I love Magic. But he wasn't even unequivocally the Lakers' best player until the late 80s, when Kareem seriously started to slow down. The Lakers with LeBron instead of Magic would still have been an awesome team. I don't know about better or worse, just different. It was Magic's team and it was built around his skills, but from everything I've read, it was a similar situation to when Shaq joined the Heat and shared top dog status with Wade, until Wade seized it in 2006. That's pretty much how it went with Kareem and Magic, with Magic taking the undisputed #1 mantle in 1987.

Pretty confident that the Lakers with LeBron would have won multiple championships in the 1980s though. LeBron with Worthy, 6-7 years of Kareem in the tail end of his prime, Michael Cooper (possibly the best defensive player of the 1980s), Byron Scott or Norm Nixon and other quality starters like AC Green, Jamaal Wilkes, Sam Perkins, Mychal Thompson, Vlade Divac? It would have been interesting, as with so many front court weapons, LeBron would have to play point, or on the wing. But I don't see any reason why he wouldn't have fit right in. I don't think LeBron has any problem sacrificing points for assists. He can't run a fast break like Magic, but similarly, no one has ever been a better one man fast break than LeBron James.

You've answered your own question with your final sentence. That was the strength of the Lakers, and the reason they were able to triumph over the Celtics after all those years.

 

[fidstar]

You've answered your own question with your final sentence. That was the strength of the Lakers, and the reason they were able to triumph over the Celtics after all those years.

Just for the record the Celtics and the Lakers only played in the finals against each other 3 times. Lakers won 2, Celtics once. Hardly a domination.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Just for the record the Celtics and the Lakers only played in the finals against each other 3 times. Lakers won 2, Celtics once. Hardly a domination.

Correct. The Celtics won in 7 in 1984 (with Magic having a disastrous series), followed by the Lakers winning in 6 in 1985 and 1987). The Celtics' domination of the Lakers was a relic of the Bill Russell/Jerry West days. And the other thing about Magic was that he was a legitimately awful defender, whereas LeBron could/can slide over and guard the likes of Tony Parker whenever he felt like. Players like Derek Harper and Sleepy Floyd routinely lit Magic up, so obviously the likes of Tim Hardaway and Kevin Johnson absolutely abused him.

Sure LeBron couldn't find the open man on a fast break like Magic, but with his size, athleticism and ball handling ability, would he really have to? He's still one of the best passers in the league, he's obviously much more of a force on the boards than Magic and he finishes like Barkley/Malone in their primes. No-one has ever been close to him in terms of grabbing a rebound, bringing the ball up, turning the jets on and throwing down a monster dunk.

 

[jod23]

No-one has ever been close to him in terms of grabbing a rebound, bringing the ball up, turning the jets on and throwing down a monster dunk.

Huh??

You see so many players do that. Durant, Westbrook, Rose pre knee, go back to Jordan, Pippen loved to grab a rebound run the floor and just stuff it. Drexler, Nique, Kobe. The list could go on and on.