Analysis Is Melbourne in a proper crisis?

[OhhhhhCyril]

Lucky they have pick 2... oh wait

Lol I forgot about that

 

[La Dispute]

Tomlinson is the ultimate jack of all trades master of none.

Too poor defensively to be a key position player, not a big accumulator when he plays off half-back, not nimble or polished enough to be playing on a wing (which he currently is). What do you do with him?

I think there was certain mystique about him while he was at GWS that he'd be dominating at another club, but had to be a role player because somebody had to, but we are now seeing he is essentially the same player with some additional midfield exposure at Melbourne. I don't think they've lost out in a big way (500k sounds like a lot, but really that's base price for a guy who'd be in the top 10 at most clubs), but it's just another example of Melbourne's list management team not really thinking through a decision. A guy who'd never played on a wing over a season wasn't going to all of a sudden start dominating on a wing. At least with Langdon you can see the logic, and kicking aside I don't think he has actually been too bad for them.

Melbourne should really trial Tomlinson on a half-forward flank, where he has shown some real talent in the few matches he was sent there at GWS and play a similar role to Tom Lynch's at Adelaide. Use his fitness to work over his opponent, become another outlet and find gaps to work into. They certainly need another scoring option.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Good call. If we were to get Ross I’d want him ASAP. You don’t really want coaches out of the game too long. I have always been a big advocate for him, made 3 GF and turned lists around very successfully. A kick away from a flag in 09 and 10, and Fremantle weren’t that bad against Hawthorn in 13.

The obvious concern is the money, but I think once finals is out of contention this year then different factors come into play; how much can supporters and members endure? I mean this club has played finals twice in 14 years. In that time we’ve had 5 coaches and probably been the worst performing side - in fact definitely.

Roos was a proven coach and turned the club around, Goodwin just hasn’t carried on and is clearly out of his depth. It’s so obvious. We have on paper an excellent list. A core group that is really good. Talking to Hawks fans lately and apparently Frost has been great. Why did we let him go? He was a hard running - give it 100% defender. Now we’ve got a KPD in Lever who Just isn’t a KPD. He is a third man up uncontested player.

Tom McDonald has regressed, he has no support and probably isn’t good enough to take the no.1 defender every week. Either we play Jackson at CHF every week or Preuss. Our ball skills are awful. It’s a mess. Why isn’t Salem starting in the middle? He is our best kick. On ball should be Gawn, Salem, Petracca. Wing should be Langdon and Harmes. Tomlinson needs to go to CHB. That leaves questions on Viney, Oliver and Brayshaw. But really, are they best 22 right now? Oliver is probably, but the other two are not. The sooner we wise up to Viney being below AFL standard right now the better.

Really though?

I look at melbournes list and see dross. only players to make even an AA squad in last three years for Melbourne are Gawn, Oliver, Hibberd, Jetta and Garlett.

garlett is gone. Hibberd is way off his 2017 form. Jetta doesn’t move the needle as a small lock down defender.

oliver is one of too many one pace inside mids.

Other than that Gawn is a gun and Petracca looks to be making the step up.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Tomlinson is the ultimate jack of all trades master of none.

Too poor defensively to be a key position player, not a big accumulator when he plays off half-back, not nimble or polished enough to be playing on a wing (which he currently is). What do you do with him?

I think there was certain mystique about him while he was at GWS that he'd be dominating at another club, but had to be a role player because somebody had to, but we are now seeing he is essentially the same player with some additional midfield exposure at Melbourne. I don't think they've lost out in a big way (500k sounds like a lot, but really that's base price for a guy who'd be in the top 10 at most clubs), but it's just another example of Melbourne's list management team not really thinking through a decision. I guy who'd never played on a wing over a season wasn't going to all of a sudden start dominating on a wing. At least with Langdon you can see the logic, and kicking aside I don't think he has actually been too bad for them.

Melbourne should really trial Tomlinson on a half-forward flank, where he has shown some real talent in the few matches he was sent their at GWS and play a similar role to Tom Lynch's at Adelaide. Use his fitness to work over his opponent, become another outlet and find gaps to work into. They certainly need another scoring option.

Tomlinson is fine as your defensive wing, but you need to couple him with an out and out free running wing and attacking half backs who is given licence to do whatever he wants as Tomlinson will do the covering work. That was his role with GWS. He’d cover off the other winger and push back when Williams, Shaw etc would take off up the ground.

 

[Kangas_11]

What did North give up for Melbourne's first round?

Pick 8 which Melbourne swapped with Freo for pick 10 & 28 and they used those picks on Pickett & Rivers.

Thats a bit misleading, the full North trade included Melbourne's 2020 2nd and 3rd to North as well.

If the ladder stays as it is now the trade would be the following:
North receive - Pick #2 (2021) + Pick #26 (2020) + Pick #50 (2020)
Melbourne receive - Pick #8 (2020)

Its looking a bit lopsided, even with an apparently compromised 2021 draft.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Pickett would have been awesome for north to be fair.

Exactly. Very happy with Pickett and by all reports this next draft not so good. So I'm happy with the deal and I'd say most fans would be. Pickett is exactly what we needed and we got him.

 

[juss]

In 2018 their leading goal kickers were
McDonald - 53 - undersized key forward with only one good year as a forward.
Hogan - 47 - gone
Melksham - 32 - outlier year by a fair bit
Neal Bullen - 27 - another massive outlier year

they thought McDonald could step up to the number one key forward with Hogan leaving despite no history beyond one good season, and that Weidman could be something. All wrong.

Or it could just be as simple as the Eagles broke them in that prelim and they’ve never recovered. Would have lost by 100+ if eagles hadn’t taken foot right off the pedal in preparation of the GF the following week. Was probably as lopsided half you’ll ever see, let alone in a prelim final.

Macdonald could/should have been better from 2018.
He's listed as 194/99 which is not even remotely undersized for a KPF. He was 25 for most of the 2018 season, should have had atleast 5 years left of top quality footy.

 

[Dark Avenger]

Thats a bit misleading, the full North trade included Melbourne's 2020 2nd and 3rd to North as well.

If the ladder stays as it is now the trade would be the following:
North receive - Pick #2 (2021) + Pick #26 (2020) + Pick #50 (2020)
Melbourne receive - Pick #8 (2020)

Its looking a bit lopsided, even with an apparently compromised 2021 draft.

Correct. The deal is definitely in your favour but Melbourne identified two players they were keen on & got them both. Melbourne weren't probably banking on finishing in the bottom 4 though. Ultimately you still need to draft a good player & there are no guarantees. Verdict is obviously still out on Pickett/Rivers but they are showing good signs so far.

 

[Ambrosia]

Agree that Ross Lyon would be an excellent acquisition. He knows how to get teams to defend at a high level which would a be a huge help to Melbourne right now.

 

[demondavey]

Really though?

I look at melbournes list and see dross. only players to make even an AA squad in last three years for Melbourne are Gawn, Oliver, Hibberd, Jetta and Garlett.

garlett is gone. Hibberd is way off his 2017 form. Jetta doesn’t move the needle as a small lock down defender.

oliver is one of too many one pace inside mids.

Other than that Gawn is a gun and Petracca looks to be making the step up.

Petracca
Gawn
Brayshaw
Oliver
McDonald
May
Lever
Jetta
Salem
Tomlinson

10 guys that are all immediately good enough for an AFL list. The problem is position. Salem should be a midfielder. Best ball user. He and Petracca starting on the ball. Lever is not a KPD. Tomlinson should be at CHB. Viney dropped. Make those changes and already your 50% better.

 

[Johnny Karate]

Harsh on Gawn and Viney.

Probably, but that’s because they’re capable of better. To put it into a Richmond context: if Dusty Martin (not that Viney is anywhere near as good) spent a year getting 25 touches a game with the majority of them being stupid 1m handballs to stationary targets in traffic, already getting tackled or blind dump kicks to opposition defenders inside 50 coupled with little to no defensive efforts; Richmond fans would get frustrated. If Tom Lynch decided he was he was part of an expanded on ball group and continually got in the play/way of his teammates and made several errors with these numerous junk touches per game; Richmond fans would be wondering why the * doesn’t he get down the field and be a marking option or block a hole if they have the ball? That would be more effective than being a seagull.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

If this was a normal season then I would say they are in crisis, but this season is massively compromised and far from normal.

If next year is a season back close to what is considered normal and they are still this inept, then it confirms they are in trouble.

Every team is in the same boat though, why would Melbourne get a pass? I don't buy that excuse, they were given a free pass last year this year it's time to step up.

 

[Ambrosia]

Also think it’s definitely time to spin the magnets.

T.Mcdonald isn’t providing anything that Weideman couldn’t as a forward atm.

Lever has proven that he needs to play as a 3rd tall to impact games.

Tomlinson’s size is wasted on the wing

Bennell may as well be given an extended run at this point


FB: Lever - May - Jetta
HB: Hibberd - McDonald - Salem
C: Langdon - Oliver - Harmes
R: Gawn - Petracca - Viney
HF: Vandenberg - Tomlinson - Melksham
FF: Pickett - Weideman - Fritsch

IC: Brayshaw - Bennell - Rivers - Hunt

When picking this side I was surprised how hard it was to fill out the bench after Brayshaw and Rivers. Only blokes I rate outside the 22 are Hore, ANB and maybe Hannan.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Really though?

I look at melbournes list and see dross. only players to make even an AA squad in last three years for Melbourne are Gawn, Oliver, Hibberd, Jetta and Garlett.

garlett is gone. Hibberd is way off his 2017 form. Jetta doesn’t move the needle as a small lock down defender.

oliver is one of too many one pace inside mids.

Other than that Gawn is a gun and Petracca looks to be making the step up.

It's a small sample but Hibberd has been pretty good since returning this year (admittedly only 2 games)

 

[demondavey]

Also think it’s definitely time to spin the magnets.

T.Mcdonald isn’t providing anything that Weideman couldn’t as a forward atm.

Lever has proven that he needs to play as a 3rd tall to impact games.

Tomlinson’s size is wasted on the wing

Bennell may as well be given an extended run at this point


FB: Lever - May - Jetta
HB: Hibberd - McDonald - Salem
C: Langdon - Oliver - Harmes
R: Gawn - Petracca - Viney
HF: Vandenberg - Tomlinson - Melksham
FF: Pickett - Weideman - Fritsch

IC: Brayshaw - Bennell - Rivers - Hunt

When picking this side I was surprised how hard it was to fill out the bench after Brayshaw and Rivers. Only blokes I rate outside the 22 are Hore, ANB and maybe Hannan.

B: Hibberd May Jetta
HB: Lever Tomlinson Bennell
C: Harmes Oliver Langdon
HF: Vandenberg McDonald Melksham
FF: Pickett Weidemann Fritsch
R: Gawn Salem Petracca

I/C Brayshaw Hannan Hibberd Rivers

 

[Freomaniac]

Agree that Ross Lyon would be an excellent acquisition. He knows how to get teams to defend at a high level which would a be a huge help to Melbourne right now.

As I said. Ross Lyon could turn the demon's from a bottom 6 side to a finals side that finishes between 5th to 8th

 

[tiger_tough]

Probably, but that’s because they’re capable of better. To put it into a Richmond context: if Dusty Martin (not that Viney is anywhere near as good) spent a year getting 25 touches a game with the majority of them being stupid 1m handballs to stationary targets in traffic, already getting tackled or blind dump kicks to opposition defenders inside 50 coupled with little to no defensive efforts; Richmond fans would get frustrated. If Tom Lynch decided he was he was part of an expanded on ball group and continually got in the play/way of his teammates and made several errors with these numerous junk touches per game; Richmond fans would be wondering why the fu** doesn’t he get down the field and be a marking option or block a hole if they have the ball? That would be more effective than being a seagull.

I thought Viney was looking a lot better this year to be honest. Not moving like a glacier as he was last year. I'd like him at Richmond, would be a perfect replacement for Cotchin. As for Gawn I thought he was one of a few that could actually hit a target by foot on the weekend (can be excused for not seeing Higgins hiding behind Lever).

Both victims of an ineffective game plan, odd team selections and an unbalanced list.

 

[Bazza97]

For all the negative shots and verbal bashings Ross Lyon gets. I reckon he could do well at the Demons.

Yeah the demons made finals in 2018 and won a couple of finals too. Some people forget that Demons could of and should of got 8th spot in 2017 and played finals that year too.

You look back at that Mark Neeld era of 2012-13. To be honest it wasnt a bad side. There were some lazy over priced hacks but that squad was lacking in confidence.

Paul Roos comes in and many neutral fans took interest, I did too. I remember in 2013, you were lucky to get a handful of people at the press conference for the post match interview. Yet after a Paul Roos Press conference after a demons game, there was more interest.

If Ross Lyon can turn this bottom 6 demons side around and Give the demons a 3-4 year period of finals with a prelim or 2, you cant complain, even if you dont win the flag.

Indeed. I believe if we had Lyon at the helm, he would be capable of turning us into a consistent side that could potentially challenge over a 3-4 year period. We might not win a flag, but I think with the right coach, we can definitely find ourselves in contention. I reckon overall we've got a pretty good list so I believe there's a fair bit to work with, especially with the right coaching. I've been patient with Goodwin but I don't think he is the coach to turn it around. Hope I'm wrong on Goodwin, but I've lost a lot of confidence in him and our coaching overall over the past couple of years.

 

[Rowan18]

You know a team is in crisis if Ross Lyon seems like a good coaching option. Goodwin's current deal is too long, so i don't see how he can be paid out without breaking the bank.

 

[Freomaniac]

You know a team is in crisis if Ross Lyon seems like a good coaching option. Goodwin's current deal is too long, so i don't see how he can be paid out without breaking the bank.

Well Ross Lyon has guided teams to finals.

Goodwin might have to stay one more year though

 

[swanssince2002]

I think its all about expectations... Melbourne making top 4 and being in contention for 3-4 years seems to be good enough after such a difficult time the past decade. Lyon can give them that.

 

[Bazza97]

Tomlinson is the ultimate jack of all trades master of none.

Too poor defensively to be a key position player, not a big accumulator when he plays off half-back, not nimble or polished enough to be playing on a wing (which he currently is). What do you do with him?

I think there was certain mystique about him while he was at GWS that he'd be dominating at another club, but had to be a role player because somebody had to, but we are now seeing he is essentially the same player with some additional midfield exposure at Melbourne. I don't think they've lost out in a big way (500k sounds like a lot, but really that's base price for a guy who'd be in the top 10 at most clubs), but it's just another example of Melbourne's list management team not really thinking through a decision. A guy who'd never played on a wing over a season wasn't going to all of a sudden start dominating on a wing. At least with Langdon you can see the logic, and kicking aside I don't think he has actually been too bad for them.

Melbourne should really trial Tomlinson on a half-forward flank, where he has shown some real talent in the few matches he was sent there at GWS and play a similar role to Tom Lynch's at Adelaide. Use his fitness to work over his opponent, become another outlet and find gaps to work into. They certainly need another scoring option.

Yep, reckon having Tomlinson as that high half forward who can be that lead-up option would suit him very nicely IMO. Think that would be his best role in our side.

 

[Bazza97]

Agree that Ross Lyon would be an excellent acquisition. He knows how to get teams to defend at a high level which would a be a huge help to Melbourne right now.

He would get us playing an accountable and disciplined brand of footy. Reckon we need someone proven and he's probably the best available coach outside of the coaching system atm. If we were to get rid of Goodwin, it would be too risky for us to go after someone untried IMO.

 

[Cadillac]

this could be an old thread bumped from when Norm Smith got the arse

I don’t think the internet was around back then.

 

[Boristown]

Thank god you aren’t a list manager for north then

Because the ones we've had in the past 20 years have done such a ripping job?