Analysis Is Melbourne in a proper crisis?

[kaiserchief13]

You’re not wrong. Lose to Adelaide and it’s pretty much the start of the process to remove Goodwin.

If they lose to Adelaide the players have given up and want him gone

 

[Demon bhoy]

You do realise that he has had no influence over the club since he left? Goodwin wasn’t plucked out of D grade ammos, he was clearly identified as having an ability. I just think he hasn’t been able to develop his coaching, identity issues, and force change.

On the rest re being a basket case? I am not disagreeing with you on that. We are a mess, and without two wins from the next two games it’ll be very hard to remain positive at all unless Goodwin is sacked.

I understand the points your making and they are legitimate for sure I just tend to disagree, the Goodwin call was a bad one, there was a reason he wasn’t first or even second choice and was out of a job, I just personally believe it should of been done differently when the clubs first options said no.

 

[demondavey]

If they lose to Melbourne the players have given up and want him gone

Yep

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Like GWS and the Bulldogs who have also had their struggles this season, I’m not too worried about them. Have enough top players who are in their peak ages or just before their peaks, they just need to sort out the complimentary players and/or the game plan.

In a rough stretch at the moment and I’d be surprised if they recovered to make the finals but I don’t see this as a long term crisis. Wouldn’t be surprised if they made finals next year.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Very interesting chat here. Morris makes the point that Melbourne’s financial position is very underrated and they’re actually in a strong position.
They sold the Leighoak Hotel for $11m which was a miraculous piece of timing given what has happened this year. They’ll be one of the few clubs unassisted by the AFL this year.

Anyway the financials aren’t a major obstacle.

BTW - not sure of Garry Lyon’s maths skills. I don’t know how he thinks $700k is half of $6 million. But anyway.

 

[The Dr]

I understand the points your making and they are legitimate for sure I just tend to disagree, the Goodwin call was a bad one, there was a reason he wasn’t first or even second choice and was out of a job, I just personally believe it should of been done differently when the clubs first options said no.

So how is it Roos’ fault in any way? And what should’ve been done once Dew said no? The club had to select who they believed was the next best option and they did.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[demondavey]

Very interesting chat here. Morris makes the point that Melbourne’s financial position is very underrated and they’re actually in a strong position.
They sold the Leighoak Hotel for $11m which was a miraculous piece of timing given what has happened this year. They’ll be one of the few clubs unassisted by the AFL this year.

Anyway the financials aren’t a major obstacle.

BTW - not sure of Garry Lyon’s maths skills. I don’t know how he thinks $700k is half of $6 million. But anyway.

Clearly Lyon is just trying to stir things up for a conversation here. There’s no way he believes that Melbourne can keep Goodwin beyond this year if they don’t play finals. It’ll be 7 years since Roos took over with obvious improvement initially, but it’ll be nonetheless 7 years and 1 finals appearance. That’s pretty grim.

If they have surplus funds, and a balance sheet isn’t a great way of measuring this unless liabilities are excessive, then they should come to an arrangement with Goodwin and move him on. If Melbourne wants to remain irrelevant then continue to be a mid to low rung side with ‘learnings’ and ‘potential’. The last decade has really given us the soft tag, you’ve got to remember that in the Daniher years and prior we actually were a regular enough finals side.

 

[demondavey]

So how is it Roos’ fault in any way? And what should’ve been done once Dew said no? The club had to select who they believed was the next best option and they did.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Exactly. As I’ve said, sometimes the candidate looks great before they start the job but clearly can’t execute. Also, this stuff happens in workplaces all the time, people have a hire that doesn’t work out. Why are footy people supposed to ALWAYS make the right calls?

 

[Big_Birdy]

Very interesting chat here. Morris makes the point that Melbourne’s financial position is very underrated and they’re actually in a strong position.
They sold the Leighoak Hotel for $11m which was a miraculous piece of timing given what has happened this year. They’ll be one of the few clubs unassisted by the AFL this year.

Anyway the financials aren’t a major obstacle.

BTW - not sure of Garry Lyon’s maths skills. I don’t know how he thinks $700k is half of $6 million. But anyway.

Not sure what Tom Morris is on about here. According to this article the Demons sold that pub and reinvested the money elsewhere back in 2018.

Gambling exit: Demons hit the jackpot with $11m

Melbourne will reap close to $11 million this year by selling their gaming venue as part of the club’s decision to exit pokies.

www.google.com.au

Let’s even assume the article is wrong and they did just sell the pub. He referred to it as “lucrative”. Quite frankly deciding to sell lucrative assets doesn’t scream ‘strong financial position’ to me.

 

[demondavey]

Not sure what Tom Morris is on about here. According to this article the Demons sold that pub and reinvested the money elsewhere back in 2018.

Gambling exit: Demons hit the jackpot with $11m

Melbourne will reap close to $11 million this year by selling their gaming venue as part of the club’s decision to exit pokies.

www.google.com.au

Let’s even assume the article is wrong and they did just sell the pub. He referred to it as “lucrative”. Quite frankly deciding to sell lucrative assets doesn’t scream ‘strong financial position’ to me.

As I’ve always said. We signed Goodwin for 4 years. If we fail to play finals this year who do we make accountable? The legend who gave him the contract. Who approved it? CEO? Board? President?

What an absolute balls up

 

[00Stinger]

Very interesting chat here. Morris makes the point that Melbourne’s financial position is very underrated and they’re actually in a strong position.
They sold the Leighoak Hotel for $11m which was a miraculous piece of timing given what has happened this year. They’ll be one of the few clubs unassisted by the AFL this year.

Anyway the financials aren’t a major obstacle.

BTW - not sure of Garry Lyon’s maths skills. I don’t know how he thinks $700k is half of $6 million. But anyway.

I think Lyon is calling out Morris for his bullshit to be honest

Moriss has been blackballed from MFC so not sure where he would be getting his story from other than joining the dots.

 

[Demon bhoy]

So how is it Roos’ fault in any way? And what should’ve been done once Dew said no? The club had to select who they believed was the next best option and they did.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Roos was intimately involved in the decision so he carries blame as do all the other people involved, it was an extraordinarily bad move driven by a need to have a succession plan which should of been shelved when the leading candidates were not interested.
Roos coached for anther 2 years after the Goodwin hire there was no rush, as usual at Melbourne they hired who every they could get and not who they themselves identified as the best.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I think Lyon is calling out Morris for his bullshit to be honest

Moriss has been blackballed from MFC so not sure where he would be getting his story from other than joining the dots.

When and why was he “blackballed”?

Stories of that are almost always wrong, he has AFL accreditation so isn’t banned.

 

[00Stinger]

When and why was he “blackballed”?

Stories of that are almost always wrong, he has AFL accreditation so isn’t banned.

Was working for MFC on a casual basis there for a while on a podcast. Wrote a story which involved him leaking a private conversation and was told not to come back to the MFC again

Since then his contacts have dried and you will find the players and staff at the club can't stand him over this so I'm not sure how he magically has these inside contacts again

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Was working for MFC on a casual basis there for a while on a podcast. Wrote a story which involved him leaking a private conversation and was told not to come back to the MFC again

Since then his contacts have dried and you will find the players and staff at the club can't stand him over this so I'm not sure how he magically has these inside contacts again


View attachment 927102

View attachment 927103

Pretty sure Hogan had his wires crossed. Which isn’t surprising as I don’t think he’s the sharpest tool in the shed.

AFL 2019: Reporter Tom Morris responds to Jesse Hogan’s extraordinary Twitter tirade

AFL journo responds to Docker’s extraordinary Twitter tirade

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[00Stinger]

Pretty sure Hogan had his wires crossed. Which isn’t surprising as I don’t think he’s the sharpest tool in the shed.

AFL 2019: Reporter Tom Morris responds to Jesse Hogan’s extraordinary Twitter tirade

AFL journo responds to Docker’s extraordinary Twitter tirade

www.foxsports.com.au

there has been a few in the know that have said staff are told not to deal with Tom Morris anymore. Previous to the falling out apparently his mail was top notch at Melbourne, since then not much so

Here TM says after he wrote the article he rang MFC and said he wouldn't come in to do the podcast anymore if it was a bit awkward for him to do so. The club said 'yep it is' and he never came back

Tom Morris responds to Twitter abuse from Fremantle forward Jesse Hogan - 3AW

Tom Morris has responded to being called a “leech” on social media by Jesse Hogan. The Sportsday newsbreaker was the subject of abuse at the weekend from the Fremantle forward, who clearly isn’t a fan. Hogan deleted the posts about an hour after he posted them. “I’m not losing any sleep about...

www.3aw.com.au

Also interesting to say no one reached out to him after this. Probably because of how the club feel about him

 

[Bunk Moreland]

there has been a few in the know that have said staff are told not to deal with Tom Morris anymore. Previous to the falling out apparently his mail was top notch at Melbourne, since then not much so

Here TM says after he wrote the article he rang MFC and said he wouldn't come in to do the podcast anymore if it was a bit awkward for him to do so. The club said 'yep it is' and he never came back

Tom Morris responds to Twitter abuse from Fremantle forward Jesse Hogan - 3AW

Tom Morris has responded to being called a “leech” on social media by Jesse Hogan. The Sportsday newsbreaker was the subject of abuse at the weekend from the Fremantle forward, who clearly isn’t a fan. Hogan deleted the posts about an hour after he posted them. “I’m not losing any sleep about...

www.3aw.com.au

Also interesting to say no one reached out to him after this. Probably because of how the club feel about him

Fair enough, who knows I guess.

I don’t think Goodwin being under genuine pressure is really a controversial take though. I get Lyon may have wanted to challenge him, but I’d probably be more surprised if there wasn’t proper pressure on Goodwin.

We’re only probably 6-7 weeks from the end of the H&A season. A couple more bad results for the Dees and there’ll have to be quiet discussions happening at board level about his future. It’s basically their job.

Do the Dees have a “football director” as such? Somebody on the board who’s specialty is the footy ops?

 

[00Stinger]

Fair enough, who knows I guess.

I don’t think Goodwin being under genuine pressure is really a controversial take though. I get Lyon may have wanted to challenge him, but I’d probably be more surprised if there wasn’t proper pressure on Goodwin.

We’re only probably 6-7 weeks from the end of the H&A season. A couple more bad results for the Dees and there’ll have to be quiet discussions happening at board level about his future. It’s basically their job.

Do the Dees have a “football director” as such? Somebody on the board who’s specialty is the footy ops?

Yeah for sure Goodwin will come under pressure if the season falls to total s**t.

But with 2 years remaining on his deal after a weird year like this regardless of balance sheets I can't see the club throwing $1.4m away

Josh Mahoney is the head of football I think

 

[Ducky Tie]

In terms of Bartlett's comments, I find it a strange one. I get that Dees frans probably loved it as they're understandably fed up with the performances, but I don't see how Bartlett's comments actually help. It puts more pressure on Goodwin, which I don't see as a positive in any way. If the Dees come out and have a good win, I don't think it'll be because of a spray by the President. That won't be the difference in effort levels. If the Dees play poorly and/or don't win then the pressure becomes even greater and what then? They're not going to sack Goodwin next week.

This line from some in the media that 'The President represents the fans' is so disingenous. The President isn't some cheersquad representative who announces the mood of the fans. They appoint coaches, they sack coaches, they manage the club. They are far more than just a representative of the fans. If that's all they were, coaches would get sacked every second week. I get that Bartlett is normally a president who stays quiet but I just don't see the benefit to a spray like this. I do see a potential downside.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

In terms of Bartlett's comments, I find it a strange one. I get that Dees frans probably loved it as they're understandably fed up with the performances, but I don't see how Bartlett's comments actually help. It puts more pressure on Goodwin, which I don't see as a positive in any way. If the Dees come out and have a good win, I don't think it'll be because of a spray by the President. That won't be the difference in effort levels. If the Dees play poorly and/or don't win then the pressure becomes even greater and what then? They're not going to sack Goodwin next week.

This line from some in the media that 'The President represents the fans' is so disingenous. The President isn't some cheersquad representative who announces the mood of the fans. They appoint coaches, they sack coaches, they manage the club. They are far more than just a representative of the fans. If that's all they were, coaches would get sacked every second week. I get that Bartlett is normally a president who stays quiet but I just don't see the benefit to a spray like this. I do see a potential downside.

I’d agree if he did it constantly but he doesn’t. Sometimes they do need to be heard, particularly in extraordinary times - this is one of them, really. They had an appalling year last year, they did the whole “hell and back” redemption thing... Now we’re halfway thru the new season and they’re bottom four and got beaten by 10 goals. It’s a very low point.

 

[Ducky Tie]

I’d agree if he did it constantly but he doesn’t. Sometimes they do need to be heard, particularly in extraordinary times - this is one of them, really. They had an appalling year last year, they did the whole “hell and back” redemption thing... Now we’re halfway thru the new season and they’re bottom four and got beaten by 10 goals. It’s a very low point.

It's a terrible time for them no doubt, but I just don't see how this helps turn it around. Sack him at the end of the year if things don't get better, but I don't reckon a spray from the president mid season will evoke a sudden turnaround - and if he really wanted to give it to the players/coaches, he could've done it in private. He's done it publicly to pay lip service to the members more than anything.

 

[The Dr]

Roos was intimately involved in the decision so he carries blame as do all the other people involved, it was an extraordinarily bad move driven by a need to have a succession plan which should of been shelved when the leading candidates were not interested.
Roos coached for anther 2 years after the Goodwin hire there was no rush, as usual at Melbourne they hired who every they could get and not who they themselves identified as the best.

So Roos arrives on the provision there will be a succession plan.

The MFC and Roos then look to find someone who will eventually become Roos' successor.

The target Dew, who says no. You say then that the succession plan should be shelved - what happens then? Roos had already stated he was only in for the short-term, so he's not an option to continue.

 

[Richo83]

They're a weird team, not sure how you can be this bad yet still have a ruckman on fire and two or three midfielders playing well. To me this just shows how much of a system game this is and if your weakest link in the chain is awful, you get exposed badly. Melbourne must have one of the worst performing bottom six-twelve players in the league.

IMO last year their drafting left a lot to be desired and still leaves a lot to be desired. I don't see how Jackson makes them a better side given they already have Gawn, Weiderman and McDonald playing. It makes them top heavy. Pickett I suspect will be as good as he'll ever be. He's not a player who will be able to pull up a team by their bootstraps, but a player who will play well if the team plays well. They're a team which is crying out for a dynamic player who can set up their forwards and they drafted an undersized ruckman and a small forward. They traded down from the position that got Serong. I generally think trading down is a good idea, but trading down from a position to select a small forward instead of a midfielder doesn't really follow contemporary drafting wisdom.

 

[Demon bhoy]

So Roos arrives on the provision there will be a succession plan.

The MFC and Roos then look to find someone who will eventually become Roos' successor.

The target Dew, who says no. You say then that the succession plan should be shelved - what happens then? Roos had already stated he was only in for the short-term, so he's not an option to continue.

Plans change, Roos came for 2 years and stayed for 3 as an example, when the preferred options didn’t want the job it was time to reassess, they had 2 years they didn’t have to grab a bloke off the street no other club wanted, but they did and not unsurprisingly it turned to s**t and everyone involved in that decision is at fault Roos included

 

[The Dr]

Plans change, Roos came for 2 years and stayed for 3 as an example, when the preferred options didn’t want the job it was time to reassess, they had 2 years they didn’t have to grab a bloke off the street no other club wanted, but they did and not unsurprisingly it turned to sh*t and everyone involved in that decision is at fault Roos included

I still don't get why you're angry at Roos when he came in and did exactly the job he said he'd do.

You say "when the preferred options didn't want the job, it was time to reassess" - in your mind, what should Roos have done?