Analysis Is Melbourne in a proper crisis?

[Demonic Ascent]

Changing assistants won’t change anything if Goodwin won’t change.

Goodwin will be forced to change because if he doesn't he will find his coaching career is finished before it even got started.

 

[Frank Grimes]

If this was a normal season then I would say they are in crisis, but this season is massively compromised and far from normal.

If next year is a season back close to what is considered normal and they are still this inept, then it confirms they are in trouble.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Melbourne in for early draft picks again time and time again only to stuff things up again

They traded out their first round pick for this year. Though this draft is going to be somewhat of a lottery due to Covid 19 limiting the U18 comp.

 

[Corkintheocean]

Unpopular opinion but I think its time to bring in Ross the boss lol. Taken 2 clubs that were on the bottom for a long time to the grand final. Sure players would get bored of him quickly but hey anything to get Melbourne out of the mess they are in...

Not so much an unpopular opinion as an incorrect one.

Lyon took two clubs heaving with talent and on the way up, and failed to get them over the line by stifling their creative flair and natural ability in preference to a unwatchable, negative game plan.

 

[Corkintheocean]

1. I don't think Goodwin is a good coach and doesn't appear as someone who can inspire their team.

2. They failed to realise that they overachieved in 2018 and made decisions thinking they were closer to a flag.

3. They spent too much money/draft picks on their backline and not enough on their midfield and forwardline.

4. Jake Lever is terribly overrated. Getting paid $700,000+ a year to play as an unaccountable loose man in defence.

5. Still can't understand their draft strategy from last year. They used pick 3 on Jackson when they have a top-two ruck already in Gawn, who isn't that old. They needed someone to help win a premiership while Gawn is there, not someone who will take over for him when the window may be closed. They needed quick, classy midfielders (not Langdon/Tomlinson) to help out their plethora of inside mids, not a young ruck and small forward.

Which is it?

 

[Freomaniac]

Anyone is better than Goodwin right now

Almost anyone. You sure as hell don't want Mark Neeld within 500 KMs within your club.

I love Ross Lyon. Most people on here know that. He could improve the club.

I am sure you could follow north or Carlton and replace your current coach with one of your assistant coaches for the 2nd half of the season.

 

[Aussie_boy]

The 'To hell and back' thing was a little bit bizarre IMO. The sort of thing you'd release if this season went to plan but not before the season, was only going to backfire.

Picking up Tomlinson, I have no idea what he brings to the table but he's quite an average footballer and definitely not what they need. And apparently on 500k a year, well that right there is a problem. I thought Mitch Brown was a good pickup but he can't get a game.

They also seem to have list cloggers constantly getting opportunities guys like the Wagner brothers, Jay Lockhart, Billy Stretch, Oskar Baker, Charlie Spargo and Kyle Dunkley- guys you can't really see forging a successful career. Obviously all clubs have these types it just seems like Melbourne has more of them.

Still I think there is a little bit to work with, should be in the 9-12 range at least.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

the Wagner brothers, Jay Lockhart, Billy Stretch, Oskar Baker, Charlie Spargo and Kyle Dunkley

Sounds like an indie band. Maybe they should form one?

 

[Bazza97]

Almost anyone. You sure as hell don't want Mark Neeld within 500 KMs within your club.

I love Ross Lyon. Most people on here know that. He could improve the club.

I am sure you could follow north or Carlton and replace your current coach with one of your assistant coaches for the 2nd half of the season.

Yeah I said this on our club board but I honestly reckon Lyon would be a good fit for us. We're struggling to get the most out of our list atm and considering how far he took both the Saints and the Dockers, I would be happy to have him as our coach. I reckon we would see results with Ross in charge and I feel like he was pretty stiff to not be a premiership coach.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yeah I said this on our club board but I honestly reckon Lyon would be a good fit for us. We're struggling to get the most out of our list atm and considering how far he took both the Saints and the Dockers, I would be happy to have him as our coach. I reckon we would see results with Ross in charge and I feel like he was pretty stiff to not be a premiership coach.

For all the negative shots and verbal bashings Ross Lyon gets. I reckon he could do well at the Demons.

Yeah the demons made finals in 2018 and won a couple of finals too. Some people forget that Demons could of and should of got 8th spot in 2017 and played finals that year too.

You look back at that Mark Neeld era of 2012-13. To be honest it wasnt a bad side. There were some lazy over priced hacks but that squad was lacking in confidence.

Paul Roos comes in and many neutral fans took interest, I did too. I remember in 2013, you were lucky to get a handful of people at the press conference for the post match interview. Yet after a Paul Roos Press conference after a demons game, there was more interest.

If Ross Lyon can turn this bottom 6 demons side around and Give the demons a 3-4 year period of finals with a prelim or 2, you cant complain, even if you dont win the flag.

 

[Freomaniac]

Ross seems happy with media easy street. Much easier to poke holes in Kane Cornes' critique than to coach Melbourne to a GF I'd think.

Yeah its fun to Make fun of Kane Cornes as he is From South Australia and for feeds himself with Adelaide tap water.

I will savour Ross Lyons 8 years at Freo. I will savour every final we played under him, even the heart breaking defeats.

As a West Coast fan I have an obvious bias, but a serious question to Melbourne fans - is Ross Lyon really a genuine answer when we ask who you could replace Simon Goodwin with?

I am sure you love Ross Lyon as much as I do! lol


I see you are a Man United fan as Well. So that means you should have some basics with Soccer/EPL.

If Ross Lyon was a manager in the EPL, Who would he be?

And you will definately agree with me on this. It would be either Tony Pulis or Sam Alladyce.

Both of them use very defensive tactics and both have constantly been employed.

Why? Because these defensive coaches turn bottom 3 relegation clubs into eventual mid table sides. If you are in the bottom 3 and want a defensive coach to win key games 1-0 and finish 17th or 16th in the EPL, then get one of those 2.

Nothing not many stoke fans were complaining when Tony Pulis guided Stoke city to mid table as teams staying in the EPL were pulling in 80-100 million pounds a year in TV money.

 

[Sprout]

If this was a normal season then I would say they are in crisis, but this season is massively compromised and far from normal.

If next year is a season back close to what is considered normal and they are still this inept, then it confirms they are in trouble.

Oh boy. How I wish that were true.

Nope. That is far too easy a get out clause. Goodwin has a full list to pick from snd it’s the exact same issues from last season. Know how to win the ball. Paralysed when trying to move it forward and score.

Not knowing how to score can be a bit of a hinderance in this game.

 

[Sprout]

The main problem for The Dees is they off loaded the great pick they got for Hogan for Steven May, whom quite frankly has been a massive disappointment for The Demons.

There are a plethora of problems before even considering May. He is starting to look alright considering how long he’s been sitting in the stands. If he can continue to build form he’ll be the least of our worries.

Lever on the other hand...

 

[mightymouse75]

How many games have they won since the preliminary final in 2018?

Bout 6 I heard

 

[demondavey]

For all the negative shots and verbal bashings Ross Lyon gets. I reckon he could do well at the Demons.

Yeah the demons made finals in 2018 and won a couple of finals too. Some people forget that Demons could of and should of got 8th spot in 2017 and played finals that year too.

You look back at that Mark Neeld era of 2012-13. To be honest it wasnt a bad side. There were some lazy over priced hacks but that squad was lacking in confidence.

Paul Roos comes in and many neutral fans took interest, I did too. I remember in 2013, you were lucky to get a handful of people at the press conference for the post match interview. Yet after a Paul Roos Press conference after a demons game, there was more interest.

If Ross Lyon can turn this bottom 6 demons side around and Give the demons a 3-4 year period of finals with a prelim or 2, you cant complain, even if you dont win the flag.

Good call. If we were to get Ross I’d want him ASAP. You don’t really want coaches out of the game too long. I have always been a big advocate for him, made 3 GF and turned lists around very successfully. A kick away from a flag in 09 and 10, and Fremantle weren’t that bad against Hawthorn in 13.

The obvious concern is the money, but I think once finals is out of contention this year then different factors come into play; how much can supporters and members endure? I mean this club has played finals twice in 14 years. In that time we’ve had 5 coaches and probably been the worst performing side - in fact definitely.

Roos was a proven coach and turned the club around, Goodwin just hasn’t carried on and is clearly out of his depth. It’s so obvious. We have on paper an excellent list. A core group that is really good. Talking to Hawks fans lately and apparently Frost has been great. Why did we let him go? He was a hard running - give it 100% defender. Now we’ve got a KPD in Lever who Just isn’t a KPD. He is a third man up uncontested player.

Tom McDonald has regressed, he has no support and probably isn’t good enough to take the no.1 defender every week. Either we play Jackson at CHF every week or Preuss. Our ball skills are awful. It’s a mess. Why isn’t Salem starting in the middle? He is our best kick. On ball should be Gawn, Salem, Petracca. Wing should be Langdon and Harmes. Tomlinson needs to go to CHB. That leaves questions on Viney, Oliver and Brayshaw. But really, are they best 22 right now? Oliver is probably, but the other two are not. The sooner we wise up to Viney being below AFL standard right now the better.

 

[Foucault1989]

Ross Lyon is circling. Here he comes...

Seriously though, I actually rate quite a few players on Melbourne's list. On paper, they are a decent side with enough players reaching the prime of their careers. I wouldn't be all doom and gloom. A few handy additions, new coach and attitude could do wonders. The foundation is there

 

[demondavey]

Howe was a mistake/although I think he always wanted to be a Pie, but Hogan's body seemed shot plus he had questionable off field field issues..

The main problem for The Dees is they off loaded the great pick they got for Hogan for Steven May, whom quite frankly has been a massive disappointment for The Demons.

Ben Weideman not coming on as expected/hoped, has also really hurt The Dees. He looked a couple of years ago, got no idea what has happened with him since.

May isn’t the issue. As a FB he is good enough. Lever is the issue. He is being played as a KPD when he just isn’t. At Adelaide he had Talia and Hartigan to take the KPF. He is an uncontested player. I’ve got less issues with May. Right now Tomlinson needs to go to CHB. Losing Frost is looking like the big issue here.

 

[demondavey]

There are a plethora of problems before even considering May. He is starting to look alright considering how long he’s been sitting in the stands. If he can continue to build form he’ll be the least of our worries.

Lever on the other hand...

Lever is the issue. Oscar McDonald is a better KP player. And I am not even joking. Lever is a third man up. At best. One on one you’d knock him over with the steam from your piss.

 

[demondavey]

Oh boy. How I wish that were true.

Nope. That is far too easy a get out clause. Goodwin has a full list to pick from snd it’s the exact same issues from last season. Know how to win the ball. Paralysed when trying to move it forward and score.

Not knowing how to score can be a bit of a hinderance in this game.

Speaking of a full list, might be time Harley Bennel got a game?

 

[newcastlefalcon]

Howe was a mistake/although I think he always wanted to be a Pie, but Hogan's body seemed shot plus he had questionable off field field issues..

The main problem for The Dees is they off loaded the great pick they got for Hogan for Steven May, whom quite frankly has been a massive disappointment for The Demons.

Ben Weideman not coming on as expected/hoped, has also really hurt The Dees. He looked a couple of years ago, got no idea what has happened with him since.

I always understood that a key reason for Howe leaving was that he wanted to play as a forward and Buckley told him he would and look how that has turned out.
As much as I liked Hogan, I think trading him was the right thing to do - injuries and other issues.
I lived on the Gold Coast and watched May a lot and I was really happy when I heard he was leaving and then aghast when it was to Melbourne. I lost count of the times that he openly berated teammates on the field particularly when he was doing dumb things too.
I don't know what has happened to Weideman but he is not getting better where he is so I think he needs to play in the seniors for a stretch.
I also think they have to play Brown who they got from Essendon as the forward line needs more.

 

[newcastlefalcon]

As a West Coast fan I have an obvious bias, but a serious question to Melbourne fans - is Ross Lyon really a genuine answer when we ask who you could replace Simon Goodwin with?

It is an old line but if Lyon is the answer I really don't know what the question is!

 

[the harry]

What did North give up for Melbourne's first round?

 

[Dark Avenger]

What did North give up for Melbourne's first round?

Pick 8 which Melbourne swapped with Freo for pick 10 & 28 and they used those picks on Pickett & Rivers.

 

[tiger_tough]

However you want to label it, there’s no doubt that we stink. From playing in a Preliminary Final (possible overachievement notwithstanding) to winning 6 out of 27 (broken down further 3 out of 18 & 1 out of 11). It’s been the most Melbourne implosion ever and all criticisms are valid.

Goodwin and the coaches deserve the blame for terrible planning, strategy and tactics as well as cultivating the overall environment that has facilitated this drop off.

Pert deserves an uppercut for the effective 4 year extension he gave Goodwin after being in the door 5 minutes.

The Chairman and board deserve a kick in the courats for employing Pert after the way he got the arse from Collingwood.

The players deserve a lot of sh*t for being a group of self-satisfied, mental short people who would rather stat pad (lead eagerly by Gawn, Oliver and Viney) with sub-AFL standard skills and low footy IQ than actually have a meaningful impact on a game.

The list management and recruitment team deserve a strafing for paying a King’s ransom for key defenders and topping up with the who’s that of the Casey Scorpions.

Harsh on Gawn and Viney.

 

[00Stinger]

They also seem to have list cloggers constantly getting opportunities guys like the Wagner brothers, Jay Lockhart, Billy Stretch, Oskar Baker, Charlie Spargo and Kyle Dunkley- guys you can't really see forging a successful career. Obviously all clubs have these types it just seems like Melbourne has more of them.

Lockhart is alright and has shown glimpses, Stretch was delisted last year

You are bang on with the others though